2015-16 Region Tournaments

Class B Boys
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Re: 2015-16 Region Tournaments

Postby UNDSiouxfan » Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:42 am

It is very unfortunate for ND Class B basketball that it has come to this point. This is the biggest sporting event in our state but it just isn't the same as it once was.

Here are some POPULATION facts:

Fargo - about 200,000 to draw from (Fargo, WF, Mhd, kids all go to OG)
Minot - about 50,000 to draw from (both finalists in their Region this year)
Bismarck - about 100,000 to draw from (and the best facilities in the state)
Dickinson - about 30,000 to draw from (while easily being able to compete w/Dickinson High every year)

and THESE are class B towns??? the NDHSAA has it all wrong...

Grand Forks - well, it's a matter of time until they get their own private school and enter the "B"

Simply said, having private schools in these large communities gives them an edge by having a larger population to recruit from. Personally, I'm from a class A town and it was tough enough to compete against the big towns back then. Witnessing these changing times is simply ruining the best sporting event we have here in ND.

The allure of Class B basketball is having that great player dominate a basketball game, getting to state and watching these other teams defend against that special player. Sometimes, a team will have two. The game is changing and it isn't quite the same, because the larger communities can have 8-9-10 kids to defend. I'm not saying private schools have more talented players, but it's about depth in numbers. It used to be every year a different team would make it. Not so much anymore.

Remember the names Hunter Berg from Grenora? Dustin Undlin from Mohall? Bryan Buhr from Hope-Page? Scott Guldseth from Edinburg? This is what ND Class B basketball is about -- emptying out these small towns, locking the doors, and cheering on your small town teams. When you have a deep bench that can stop these one-in-every-ten year caliber of player, it keeps those kids from getting recognized.

So to all those small town ND communities that were able to make the B this year, good luck to you! We know who you are and we will be rooting. In the meantime, the populations in the big towns keeps going up.
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Re: 2015-16 Region Tournaments

Postby Flip » Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:50 am

Fargo - about 200,000 to draw from (Fargo, WF, Mhd, kids all go to OG)

by no means trying to start an argument here, but the metro area kids can still go to Park Christian or Shanley.
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Re: 2015-16 Region Tournaments

Postby sportsnut5 » Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:53 am

Region 7 venue seating capacities
Hazen - 2,500
Trinity - 2,350
Beulah - 1,750
Dickinson High - 1,300
Bowman County - 1,200
DSU - 1,081

The Region girls tourney was hosted at DHS this year and people asked for their money back due to over crowding and now seating available. Great atmosphere, but no possible way to accommodate the number of fans for a boys tourney.

Here are also the response from the NDHSAA on some of the region committee's ideas to move the tournament. Region 7 has a committee working on getting neutral site, but there are really no options that work at the moment. As a group, we would love to move it to the new Watford City facility.

- The NDHSAA would have a hard time justifying playing the Region 7 Boys’ Basketball
Tournament outside of the region when teams have to travel a long ways. (Example: Moving it to Bismarck or Watford City).

- The NDHSAA wants a venue that will not have people turned away because of a lack of seating.

- The NDHSAA would not be in favor of a format of playing all games at the higher seed.

- The NDHSAA would not be in favor of playing the second round games at higher seed and moving the Final Four to a neutral site outside the region.
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Re: 2015-16 Region Tournaments

Postby thefourwinds » Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:55 am

UNDSiouxfan wrote:It is very unfortunate for ND Class B basketball that it has come to this point. This is the biggest sporting event in our state but it just isn't the same as it once was.

Here are some POPULATION facts:

Fargo - about 200,000 to draw from (Fargo, WF, Mhd, kids all go to OG)
Minot - about 50,000 to draw from (both finalists in their Region this year)
Bismarck - about 100,000 to draw from (and the best facilities in the state)
Dickinson - about 30,000 to draw from (while easily being able to compete w/Dickinson High every year)

and THESE are class B towns??? the NDHSAA has it all wrong...

Grand Forks - well, it's a matter of time until they get their own private school and enter the "B"

Simply said, having private schools in these large communities gives them an edge by having a larger population to recruit from. Personally, I'm from a class A town and it was tough enough to compete against the big towns back then. Witnessing these changing times is simply ruining the best sporting event we have here in ND.

The allure of Class B basketball is having that great player dominate a basketball game, getting to state and watching these other teams defend against that special player. Sometimes, a team will have two. The game is changing and it isn't quite the same, because the larger communities can have 8-9-10 kids to defend. I'm not saying private schools have more talented players, but it's about depth in numbers. It used to be every year a different team would make it. Not so much anymore.

Remember the names Hunter Berg from Grenora? Dustin Undlin from Mohall? Bryan Buhr from Hope-Page? Scott Guldseth from Edinburg? This is what ND Class B basketball is about -- emptying out these small towns, locking the doors, and cheering on your small town teams. When you have a deep bench that can stop these one-in-every-ten year caliber of player, it keeps those kids from getting recognized.

So to all those small town ND communities that were able to make the B this year, good luck to you! We know who you are and we will be rooting. In the meantime, the populations in the big towns keeps going up.


I have watched this discussion from the sideline, and I can see both sides of the arguments. However, the reasoning you give above about wanting to watch a star or two is backwards to me, and it displays how the game of basketball is going wrong. This gets back into the whole AAU argument.

Basketball is supposed to be a team sport, but it has become increasingly un-watchable at the NBA and even NCAA and high school levels because it focuses almost completely on individual athleticism rather than on developing broad and deep skills, and especially teamwork. I would much rather watch an excellent team (without any "stars") play than I would watching a bunch of games dominated by 2-4 players on the whole court.
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Re: 2015-16 Region Tournaments

Postby bounce_32 » Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:43 pm

thefourwinds, I agree 100% with this! Even if a team has that one special player it takes all five to make "THE TEAM". I would much rather watch five mediocre players that never give up and have the will to win!
Talent is never enough, it's usually the hardest workers that come out on top!
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Re: 2015-16 Region Tournaments

Postby BBB13 » Fri Mar 11, 2016 6:21 pm

Let's not forget a couple of other factors that might affect the small town teams. Back in my day, we were allowed a practice in the "big" tournament gym so everyone had a chance to get a feel for the place. Being in a first year super Region we not only had to play in a new venue, but the top three seeds had to wait over two weeks to play in it. The other teams got a play-in game a week ahead. I hope that is addressed next year. Also, besides having a larger pool for the bigger schools in the metro area, they also have well-qualified coaches because they can afford to pay them better. Usually they have at least three coaches, sometimes more. Our rural schools are fortunate if we can find a coach who has actually had some college for coaching, or is at least a teacher in the school.
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Re: 2015-16 Region Tournaments

Postby lions700 » Fri Mar 11, 2016 6:47 pm

BBB13 wrote:Let's not forget a couple of other factors that might affect the small town teams. Back in my day, we were allowed a practice in the "big" tournament gym so everyone had a chance to get a feel for the place. Being in a first year super Region we not only had to play in a new venue, but the top three seeds had to wait over two weeks to play in it. The other teams got a play-in game a week ahead. I hope that is addressed next year. Also, besides having a larger pool for the bigger schools in the metro area, they also have well-qualified coaches because they can afford to pay them better. Usually they have at least three coaches, sometimes more. Our rural schools are fortunate if we can find a coach who has actually had some college for coaching, or is at least a teacher in the school.


Afford to pay them better? What world do you live in??? Staff members at private schools make literally nothing. Plus, not all of them teach. I know Bishop Ryan's coach doesn't. Coaching is a hobby for some people, not a job.
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Re: 2015-16 Region Tournaments

Postby Flip » Fri Mar 11, 2016 7:10 pm

it may have changed, but all of Shiloh's coaches used to be volunteers.
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Re: 2015-16 Region Tournaments

Postby Wilbur » Fri Mar 11, 2016 10:49 pm

Yes, I do believe that Shiloh’s coaches started as volunteers (possibly because they had their own children playing), but I don’t think that has been the case for quite some time. Have to ever seen the gym and outdoor stadium they have? I don’t think they would be coaching for free when the school can shell out that kind of money for facilities. There was a time when Shiloh played its basketball games at St. Joseph’s (a Catholic School in Mandan), and I believe their school is less than 15 years old if memory serves me right. whoever made the comment that parochial school staff members get paid less than public schools is absolutely correct, plus they do not qualify for retirement. I know several teachers who started at parochial schools and went to public schools, and they have to teach until they are about 60-65 before they can qualify for the rule of 85. The issue of not being able to play in the venue of the region tournament during the season is questionable. Yes, I too played in the venue during the season and we also could hold a practice there before the regionals began. However, times have changed, and I also remember playing football playoff games at a neutral site. It all boils down to money. It costs too much to rent these facilities because their was a time when they were used free of charge. If you want to play in the venue during the regular season, I’m sure there are at least one or two jamborees there, so your team should try to participate in one of them. Otherwise, play with the hand you are dealt.
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Re: 2015-16 Region Tournaments

Postby The Schwab » Sat Mar 12, 2016 6:56 pm

Shilohs baseball field is named after their head boys basketball coach and their football field is named after the assistant boys basketball coach... it wouldn't surprise me if they coached for free...
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Re: 2015-16 Region Tournaments

Postby senditin » Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:28 pm

The ndhsaa is made up of bunch of chicken##### who don't want to rock the boat on this issue. I hope they realize they have to address it sooner rather than later.
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Re: 2015-16 Region Tournaments

Postby Wilbur » Sat Mar 12, 2016 10:28 pm

I believe Shilohs Head Boys Basketball coach is an attorney, and all of his children attended Shiloh. The assistant coach owns a construction/insulation company, which donated a substantial amount to the construction of the football field. I would hope it is named after him. I don’t know whether or not they coach for free, but they can afford to.
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Re: 2015-16 Region Tournaments

Postby triplebbb » Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:11 am

In my experience with coaching at a private school, if you teach you get paid for coaching, if you don't you volunteer.
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Re: 2015-16 Region Tournaments

Postby scruffy » Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:02 am

Private school coaches are paid much less then public school coaches. In many cases a public school junior high coach earns more then a private school varsity coach. In regards to having private schools having a larger population to draw from that can also be questioned. Not everyone in those cities belong to the church or religion of those schools. Also with the states open enrollment smaller school districts close to large cities also can draw students to their schools. This is very common. Some people like the small school atmosphere and I'm sure some believe they will get more playing time in a school that isn't as large as the Fargo public high schools,..
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Re: 2015-16 Region Tournaments

Postby wan2bqb » Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:32 pm

scruffy wrote:Private school coaches are paid much less then public school coaches. In many cases a public school junior high coach earns more then a private school varsity coach. In regards to having private schools having a larger population to draw from that can also be questioned. Not everyone in those cities belong to the church or religion of those schools. Also with the states open enrollment smaller school districts close to large cities also can draw students to their schools. This is very common. Some people like the small school atmosphere and I'm sure some believe they will get more playing time in a school that isn't as large as the Fargo public high schools,..


Bold statement here because i know for a fact the being of a certain religion has nothing to do with attending a private institution. I know lutherans attending catholic schools, catholics attending lutheran and i am sure that the young gentleman from Oak Grove wearing a Dastar, a traditional indian turban worn primarily by Shia muslims, during the whole basketball season is most likely not lutheren. Be careful what "facts" you throw out for rational for your arguement. I believe they, being the privates do have an advantage, but i dont beleve we currently have an acceptable or viable solution. Right now enrollment is what they go by so they are class B
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Re: 2015-16 Region Tournaments

Postby scruffy » Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:42 am

I realize there are some but the number is very small. In our system I don't know if we have more than ten students who are of a different faith and those kids have been with us since the elementary level. As a parent, when we decided to send out kids to a private school trust me... it wasn't because of high school sports! lol. Quality of education is what prompted our decision.
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Re: 2015-16 Region Tournaments

Postby Kwoods » Mon Mar 14, 2016 11:21 am

If most parents are only sending their kids to Private schools for religious and academic reasons NOT SPORTS then these parents shouldn't have a problem with schools being moved up a class in basketball then if its not about sports????
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Re: 2015-16 Region Tournaments

Postby Kwoods » Mon Mar 14, 2016 11:22 am

wan2bqb wrote:
scruffy wrote:Private school coaches are paid much less then public school coaches. In many cases a public school junior high coach earns more then a private school varsity coach. In regards to having private schools having a larger population to draw from that can also be questioned. Not everyone in those cities belong to the church or religion of those schools. Also with the states open enrollment smaller school districts close to large cities also can draw students to their schools. This is very common. Some people like the small school atmosphere and I'm sure some believe they will get more playing time in a school that isn't as large as the Fargo public high schools,..


Bold statement here because i know for a fact the being of a certain religion has nothing to do with attending a private institution. I know lutherans attending catholic schools, catholics attending lutheran and i am sure that the young gentleman from Oak Grove wearing a Dastar, a traditional indian turban worn primarily by Shia muslims, during the whole basketball season is most likely not lutheren. Be careful what "facts" you throw out for rational for your arguement. I believe they, being the privates do have an advantage, but i dont beleve we currently have an acceptable or viable solution. Right now enrollment is what they go by so they are class B



Great post!
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Re: 2015-16 Region Tournaments

Postby lovwatchingsports » Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:44 pm

Schools call some of their coaches volunteers because the school does not pay them. But there is a group called the sports boosters that seem to take care of that.
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Re: 2015-16 Region Tournaments

Postby Iphone_User25 » Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:44 pm

http://www.thedickinsonpress.com/letter ... en-or-hell
http://www.thedickinsonpress.com/letter ... gger-arena

Read these two letters recently. The first one I partially agree with. The tournament does not belong to be in Trinity's home gym. As previously stated by The Schwab, Hazen has a bigger gym, so why not rotate? Is the NDHSAA worried they will lose revenue by having it in Hazen compared to Dickinson?

The second letter is completely asinine. How can he bring up that the hoops are the same height and the court is the same length? What is most important in professional sports when it comes to playoff time? Who has home court/field advantage. For example, that is the reason the Broncos won the super bowl this year. I doubt Denver goes back up to New England and wins in Foxborough. Home court/field advantage does exist and when the same team has the advantage every year, that doesn't sit well. And then to think that school is a private school in a big town with one of the highest enrollments in the region, that really boils some people's blood.

Let's just hope someone can step up and change this, as building a new arena is not feasible.
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