AAU

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AAU

Postby EHS1998 » Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:36 pm

I stumbled upon this article regarding Kobe Bryant's views on AAU and I thought I would share. I've had 3 boys play AAU and I've seen good and bad so I'm not nearly as down on AAU as Mr Bryant is but he does raise some interesting points that may drive some discussion on this board.

Kobe Bryant on AAU: 'I think it's absolutely horrible for the game.'
PORTLAND, Ore. -- Kobe Bryant has been an outspoken critic of AAU basketball on multiple occasions in the past, saying that it's not teaching the fundamentals of the game to modern generations.

The Los Angeles Lakers icon still carries those beliefs and, when asked, reiterated them Saturday after his final game in Portland against the Trail Blazers.

"I hate it because it doesn't teach our players how to play the right way, how to think the game, how to play in combinations of threes," the 37-year-old Bryant, who is retiring this summer after 20 seasons in the NBA, said following a 121-103 loss at the Moda Center.

"I think everything is a reward system. I think the coaches who are teaching the game are getting rewarded in one fashion or another. It's just a showcase. I think it's absolutely horrible for the game."

Bryant was asked if he believes younger players lack fundamentals whereas his generation understands them more.

"Yeah, but I think that is just by luck in the generation that I grew up in," he said. "My generation is when AAU basketball really started becoming s---. I got lucky because I grew up in Europe and everything there was still fundamental, so I learned all the basics."

Bryant was born in Philadelphia but moved to Europe when he was 6 because his father, former NBA player Joe Bryant, moved overseas to continue his professional basketball career.

"I think we're doing a tremendous disservice to our young basketball players right now," Bryant said. "That's something that definitely needs to be fixed and it's going to definitely be one of the things that I focus on."
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Re: AAU

Postby balla45 » Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:31 pm

Just some parts that I like from this rebuttal.

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basket ... mpionships

“I just think European players are just way more skillful,” NBA superstar Kobe Bryant told ESPN’s Arash Markazi following a loss to the Grizzlies. “They are just taught the game the right way at an early age. They’re more skillful. It’s something we really have to fix. We really have to address that. We have to teach our kids to play the right way.”

The evidence of the greater skill of European-trained players is all over the NBA. Their performances are so dominant that five of them now rank among the top 50 scorers in the league, and the most productive of them, Grizzlies center Marc Gasol, ranks all the way up at No. 18.

The 18th-best scorer in the NBA is a Spaniard! How could we let that happen?

And the European-trained players pass the basketball so well — well, they pass it so well that none rank among the top 25 in the league in assists. Because to accumulate assists would be so bourgeois. The Euros make the pass that leads to the assist. Yeah, that’s what’s happening. They do that so much better than the Americans.

“AAU basketball. Horrible, terrible AAU basketball,” Bryant said. “It’s stupid. It doesn’t teach our kids how to play the game at all, so you wind up having players that are big and they bring it up and they do all this fancy crap and they don’t know how to post. They don’t know the fundamentals of the game. It’s stupid.”

He’s right, of course. While the Americans are wasting their time trying to dunk their way into SportsCenter’s top 10, the Europeans are drilling 3-pointers. OK, so players trained in U.S. high schools and colleges comprise 19 of the top 20 long-distance shooters in the NBA, but never mind that. Never mind that the U.S. turned out 26 of the 27 players who are making 40 percent or more of their threes. The Americans’ fundamentals are terrible, obviously. The Thunder's Serge Ibaka, the 20th-most accurate 3-point shooter in the NBA, he’s shooting the ball properly.

“I was kind of fortunate because when I was growing up in Italy, the Red Auerbachs and the Tex Winter and all those great coaches were doing clinics and camps in Europe,” Bryant said. “They were teaching all the club coaches, and the club coaches were following their advice and their fundamentals like the Bible, and they were teaching all of us kids that type of stuff.”

LeBron James, Stephen Curry, Kevin Durant and Anthony Davis did not have the luxury of growing up in a nation in which basketball people regarded the likes of Auerbach and Winter with the respect they deserve. Such a shame. Think of what they might have become.
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Re: AAU

Postby The Schwab » Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:04 pm

I'll bite...Let me start by saying that AAU offers great opportunities for our players, by giving college coaches an opportunity to watch them play. I do not believe that AAU basketball is for everyone. I think what Kobe is saying has merit in the aspect that basketball in general is going away from the "fundamental" aspect to the "athletic" aspect. I feel that all of the rule changes or "clarifications" have taken basketball away from its roots. If you watch NBA players, they don't have good footwork. Even big time college basketball players travel an awful lot. I would say Kobe's complaints have merit, but not with AAU but with the direction that basketball is going in general
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Re: AAU

Postby winner-within » Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:11 pm

I have never taken into consideration anything Kobe has said....even MJ wasn't much fun to listen to talk (much more fun to watch)
and watching Kobe play was just like watching MJ (major emulation) but Mike was twice the overall player..

Basketball is being played at a higher level in many facets of the game from Grade school to pros when it comes to speed, quickness, on average height at all positions etc etc

whether its AAU ECI Developmental teams, camps, its ruining nothing....if you wait till Jr. high to play ball and then hope all the teaching will come from then on its to late.....this is 2016 and Basketball is on every cell phone ipad and hand held devise let a lone TV and DVR's

and why does it seem to me that only hockey players and wrestlers should start at 3 years old and do all the traveling to tourns etc?
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Re: AAU

Postby Flip » Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:59 am

balla45 wrote:Just some parts that I like from this rebuttal.

I won't quote that whole thing, but where does that author think Ricky Rubio is from? He's definitely in the top 20 in assists.
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Re: AAU

Postby balla45 » Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:44 am

Flip wrote:
balla45 wrote:Just some parts that I like from this rebuttal.

I won't quote that whole thing, but where does that author think Ricky Rubio is from? He's definitely in the top 20 in assists.


I am thinking that at the time the article was written, Ricky Rubio had not played in a high enough percentage of games to appear in league leaders.
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Re: AAU

Postby balla45 » Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:48 am

The Schwab wrote:I'll bite...Let me start by saying that AAU offers great opportunities for our players, by giving college coaches an opportunity to watch them play. I do not believe that AAU basketball is for everyone. I think what Kobe is saying has merit in the aspect that basketball in general is going away from the "fundamental" aspect to the "athletic" aspect. I feel that all of the rule changes or "clarifications" have taken basketball away from its roots. If you watch NBA players, they don't have good footwork. Even big time college basketball players travel an awful lot. I would say Kobe's complaints have merit, but not with AAU but with the direction that basketball is going in general



We just currently live in a world where prospects are valued more than players. I feel that coaches in today's game would typically rather have an athlete than a skilled player. Using my own program as an example, I have a player who won the genetic lottery who is 6'6.5" with a 34" vertical who is being recruited by high majors. I have a 6'3" kid who is an above average athlete who gets over 30 a game and is as skilled as it gets, and he is fielding D2 offers and mid major interest. In my opinion, the message that sends to current players is, I want guys who can dunk and block shots, because I can teach anyone how to shoot, however, I can not teach shot makers how to dunk and block shots. I think this is how we have got to where we are. Obviously I am being very simplistic, but I feel most will be able to understand my point.
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Re: AAU

Postby wan2bqb » Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:33 am

"We just currently live in a world where prospects are valued more than players. I feel that coaches in today's game would typically rather have an athlete than a skilled player. Using my own program as an example, I have a player who won the genetic lottery who is 6'6.5" with a 34" vertical who is being recruited by high majors. I have a 6'3" kid who is an above average athlete who gets over 30 a game and is as skilled as it gets, and he is fielding D2 offers and mid major interest. In my opinion, the message that sends to current players is, I want guys who can dunk and block shots, because I can teach anyone how to shoot, however, I can not teach shot makers how to dunk and block shots. I think this is how we have got to where we are. Obviously I am being very simplistic, but I feel most will be able to understand my point."

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Re: AAU

Postby The Schwab » Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:10 am

I 100 percent agree with you Balla in the fact that college coaches look for upside and recruit based on athleticism, not necessarily on skill they have right now.

I believe this leads to having to watch a team like Louisville ( I watched them a lot the past few years, not so much this year ). When I would watch them there were a bunch of 6'7" + guys who could run and jump but couldn't shoot to save their soul. I also couldn't tell you what the players name was, but I remember a twitter post I read in the past: "If Rick Pitino is such an amazing coach, why is it that a player in his 3rd year in his program can't dribble with his left hand".

I feel like when it comes to major college basketball, the skill set is being placed lower than athleticism. I understand why that is, people want to go to games to see dunks and blocks and fast breaks. They don't want to go to a game and see teams be able to execute the flex offense and turn a down pick into a highly effective 15 foot elbow jump shot. They don't want to watch an undersized post player execute a "shot fake- step through" for an easy lay in. Call me a basketball purist, crazy or old school but I would much rather watch skilled players execute not solely based on athleticism, but on the fact that they have put the time in on the fundamentals and combine it with the athleticism they do possess.

I completely understand that you can't teach height or athleticism, but I wonder right now if the majority of coaches at the D-1 level try to teach fundamentals. I also am well aware that major college basketball is a business, it's not our school against their school trying to see who the best is. It's all about how much money can we make? How many fans can we get to buy overpriced tickets, hot dogs, foam fingers and peanuts? What TV deal can we sign that will make us millions of dollars? It should be about what 2-3 star student athlete can we recruit, teach and transform into a "gem" that all other programs are envious of.

When it comes to Kobe's comments I agree that skills aren't being developed like they have been in the past, but this isn't the fault of AAU. The blame for this belongs to the direction that basketball, in particular major college basketball, is going. Rant over
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Re: AAU

Postby winner-within » Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:30 am

I agree with some of that Schwab....I too love a great game played with execution....but I see blinders with many watching today's ball (I'll get back to this)....I had a young fella (14 yr old) ask me "whats athleticism"? I said "in referring to Basketball player"? he said "yea" I said "run, jump, fast, slash, stop on a dime, block, dunk"
he said, "Ok, yea but a lot of those players cant shoot or have no handles and cant pass" I said "exactly"...

watched 30 for 30 last night....1983 (good year) NC State Jimmy V. story....there was a Houston team that was absolutely no different than any recent Kentucky team "Phi Slama Jama"....point being I know how long ago this was and you can coach against it then and you can coach against it now....but in reality the diff is todays phi slama jama teams actually have more skill set than that Houston team did....Hakeem (once in the NBA) developed immensely with moves and such....in college he was worried about 2 things...Blocks and Dunks...rebounds came naturally for him...even Clyde the glide developed an outside jumper and passing in the NBA.....but IMO a Wiggins or a Anthony towns or Anthony Davis are ahead of the guys of yesteryear in their overall game....but with that said give me and Athletic Basketball player vs an Athlete.....watching Iowa State last night vs Kansas I see 8 out of the 10 that start the game that can all handle the ball well....this never was the case even with a great Duke team....the game is changing and its changeing in a way that "mentally" will be the advantage!
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Re: AAU

Postby Hinsa » Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:18 pm

Schwab,

Picking up on your thought that a majority of coaches at the major college level don't teach fundamentals, I'd like to point out some of the minority of coaches that do teach fundamentals.

Coach K at Duke - Duke starts EVERY practice with ball handling drills that break down the skills of dribbling and handling the ball into its bare essentials. And we also know how Coach K covets perimeter shooters. He gets skilled players, hones those skills, and produces competitive teams every year.

Something similar is going on at Northern Iowa. Ben Jacobson gets guys who can shoot and aren't necessarily the great leapers or athletes that the majors get. Then he takes those shooters and runs an offense that continually gets those guys open for 3-balls. The Panthers are competitive year in and year out.

Putting together a team like Coach K and Ben takes hard work and lots of it. You actually have to teach the game and the skills that go into it and drill repeatedly on those skills. It's the path less travelled because it is the harder path. I have tons of respect for these college coaches that recruit AND TEACH.
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Re: AAU

Postby The Schwab » Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:24 pm

Hinsa,

Absolutely agree that there are some coaches who team fundamentals, but I do believe those are few and far between.
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Re: AAU

Postby ndlionsfan » Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:34 pm

I agree as well. Shooting and fundamentals are just not the focus anymore for the vast majority. That's why I enjoy watching teams like Northern Iowa, Gonzaga, etc. vs the bigtime schools these days. Same with the NBA, it is almost unbearable to watch at times except for a few teams such as Golden St and San Antonio. I mean when you have Andre Drummond, Dwight Howard, Deandre Jordan cashing huge paychecks and they can't even shoot a free throw it just blows my mind. Good lord, I wouldn't miss 23 freethrows shooting with my eyes closed.
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Re: AAU

Postby Sticks11 » Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:27 am

ndlionsfan wrote:I agree as well. Shooting and fundamentals are just not the focus anymore for the vast majority. That's why I enjoy watching teams like Northern Iowa, Gonzaga, etc. vs the bigtime schools these days. Same with the NBA, it is almost unbearable to watch at times except for a few teams such as Golden St and San Antonio. I mean when you have Andre Drummond, Dwight Howard, Deandre Jordan cashing huge paychecks and they can't even shoot a free throw it just blows my mind. Good lord, I wouldn't miss 23 freethrows shooting with my eyes closed.


Exactly my thoughts. I just can't get over that. Yep, you're athletic as heck, you are a force to deal with, however your career free throw percentage is 41% (Deandre Jordan). It blows my mind that those guys have gotten to this point in their careers and are getting paid what they get paid, all without being even half decent at shooting a free throw.
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Re: AAU

Postby RedDirtFan » Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:08 am

The posted rebuttal completely missed the point. Kobe is 100% correct. AAU basketball focuses on athletic display more than refined skill, and it's led to a poorer overall game. Nobody can post up anymore except for a handful of anomalies here and there, very few players can actually handle the ball, and very few players can shoot anything but a layup or a 3 pointer, and most can't do both. It has made the quality of basketball--particularly college basketball--significantly worse. The ONLY up side for college ball is that the field for the tournament is now much more wide open.
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Re: AAU

Postby sportsnut5 » Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:31 am

Someone asked me the other day why officials seem to be worse than they used to be and my answer to them was that it is way more difficult to officiate now than in the past. The athletes are bigger, faster, and stronger, but most are way less skilled. With this you have a fast paced, out of control game being played, and at times almost impossible to officiate. When two skilled teams come together it is so fun to watch, however this rarely occurs in Class B basketball anymore.
Growing up, the summers were spent working on your game in your barn or at the park with several skill camps to attend. Now it is constant game play at team camps or AAU tourneys. The elite players get better with these activities, but the role players and those without the natural ability just do not develop and in small towns those role players are key players on their teams. With only 2 to 4 of the 10 players on the floor having skill, it can make for some ugly basketball.
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Re: AAU

Postby balla45 » Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:15 pm

RedDirtFan wrote:The posted rebuttal completely missed the point. Kobe is 100% correct. AAU basketball focuses on athletic display more than refined skill, and it's led to a poorer overall game. Nobody can post up anymore except for a handful of anomalies here and there, very few players can actually handle the ball, and very few players can shoot anything but a layup or a 3 pointer, and most can't do both. It has made the quality of basketball--particularly college basketball--significantly worse. The ONLY up side for college ball is that the field for the tournament is now much more wide open.


AAU basketball, for the most part, focuses on getting players scholarships. Athletic kids are currently more valued than skilled kids. Maybe Curry's emergence will change that.
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Re: AAU

Postby sportsnut5 » Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:50 pm

Balla, you are absolutely correct. AAU basketball is meant to showcase talented and skilled players. These players are the ones who have god given ability and put in the time to become good basketball players. It is not designed to develop skills. Team camps are great for team development, but once again they are not designed to improve player's skill sets. As coaches, it is imperative to continue to offer skill training in the offseason. It takes work to become a skilled player and many players today would rather stick to what they can do naturally instead of working on weaknesses in their games.
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Re: AAU

Postby sportsnut5 » Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:53 pm

One more thing before I leave. Go watch DSU men's basketball this year and tell me they are not the most unskilled, athletic bunch you could ever watch. Will make highlight plays but as a basketball fundamentalist it is almost impossible to enjoy.
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Re: AAU

Postby EHS1998 » Mon Feb 01, 2016 1:36 pm

Some observations after several years of having children in AAU...

- Exposing players to the higher level of play that AAU does can be extremely beneficial to a players growth, irregardless of whether they aspire to or have the ability to play college BB.
- AAU is also a very good tool with regard to creating exposure for aspiring college players. However, be sure to keep your expectations in alignment with the reality of where your child's skill level is and their future potential. This is tough to do as a parent but it is important to seek honest assessments about your young players abilities and prospects and what it will take for them to realize opportunities. LISTEN to the feedback with an open mind.
- When considering an AAU program for your child, it is extremely important to understand what the AAU program's/coaches philosophy, approach and priorities are and that they are in alignment with what your objectives are for having your child play AAU.
- There are very good coaches in AAU, there are also coaches who have no business coaching the game of basketball. This is no different from HS, I assume. But you need to be aware of who is going to be coaching your child, their background, goals, etc..
- Understand how often the team will be having practices, how will the team roster be put together, etc.
- My (stressing these are mine alone and should not be treated as generalized comments about all AAU coaches) experience is that AAU coaches priorities are thus: 1) Supplemental income, 2) Improving their own HS program (if applicable), 3) Exposing players to college coaches, 4) Developing players. None of these are bad things but this ties directly back to the point above with regard to ensuring their priorities are aligned with the objectives of having your child compete in AAU.
- If an AAU team has open tryouts and all they do are one on one drills and scrimmaging, understand that this is very telling about the type of basketball your child is going to be exposed to. Go back to approach/objectives comment above.
- Understand how the coach will be communicating with your child (especially important for 16U and below) and how they will be communicating with you. If they do not seem to want you in the loop, its ok to ask why.
- Understand where your money is going, you are buying a service, it is ok to be aware of the cost structure.
- Once you have done the due diligence with regard to the AAU program/coach, it is important to support the coach-player relationship in a positive manner. Let the coach coach.
- I have been exposed to a couple different AAU programs in the state of ND, if you are interested in feedback on them, PM me, would be happy to share. By and large my sons experiences have been quite positive but there are some things to be aware of.
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Re: AAU

Postby Flip » Sat Apr 09, 2016 3:39 pm

Steve Kerr quote:

Image
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Re: AAU

Postby baloncesto » Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:43 am

I have one problem with this argument. Now, I played AAU and disagree with some of the things said. For the majority of the AAU season, tournaments are just played on the weekends. They are spaced throughout part of the spring and most of the summer. There will be some during the week but most for sure on the weekend as i said. What about the rest of the week? Can't kids spend time on their skill work/fundamental work during the week? If all a kid does is play on the weekends, yes they will miss out on the some of the fundamental skills they should have. But, I feel that its on the kids because it's up to them what they want to do with the rest of their time. Balla, I'm sure you can agree with this; your most successful kids in your program are not the ones who just show up and play on the weekends. They are in the gym throughout the week.
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Re: AAU

Postby balla45 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:34 pm

baloncesto wrote:Balla, I'm sure you can agree with this; your most successful kids in your program are not the ones who just show up and play on the weekends. They are in the gym throughout the week.


I agree with this to an extent. The reality of basketball is some people are just way more naturally gifted than others. The "hard word beats talent when talent does not work hard phrase" is a good quote but I do not think it is accurate in a lot of cases.

On Kerr's quote. The thing that really does make the culture of AAU unique is that AAU is a business and high school basketball is an education based activity. Using North Dakota as an example, if Player A is unhappy with his varsity coach, he can either play through it, quit, or transfer and sit out a year. In AAU basketball, if Player A is unhappy with his AAU coach and Player X is a good player, he can play next week on any team that in his state or any state that it borders that will take him.
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