A three class basketball system in ND?

[UNDHeisman]

Teams such as Dickinson Trinity, Mayville/Portland, Beulah, Hazen etc. have a clear and in my opinion unfair advantage over the smaller class B schools in North Dakota basketball. In my opinion North Dakota should have three classes of basketball. What are some opinions on this?

[rep]

tough to say.

yeah, there are some clear-cut favorites, but when i look at football's class aa, i keep thinking that it is so watered down compared to class a and 9-man.

i would hate to destroy what is a real good thing in class b basketball. that said, it might be destroyed anyway by doing nothing...look at all the co-ops and how many teams there are in the state compared to even 10 years ago.

for instance region 3 has lost what...maybe 8 teams due to co-ops? more?

[Shocker]

I think that the reason that the class b tournament is so popular is because of the difficulty of making the tournament and the number of teams trying for a spot. I'd rather see one of the "big" class b schools win 8 out of 10 years than watering down competition (like it is in football) to where making the tournament isn't as special as it is now. Championships are supposed to be hard to win, I don't think they should add a class.

Basketball isn't a sport where you need 11+ good athletes to be successful like in football (although it certainly wouldn't hurt), so I think there will always be small schools that can compete with the bigger ones. A smaller school will just need to make the most of their opportunity when they have the talent because their next chance might be years away.

[point/center]

i think you  could have 8 classes and Valley City might be able to win 4 games. just a hunch

[sportsguy2]

I would go with the 3 class system even though I doubt it will ever happen. The bigger "small" schools like Mayport are their every year and it would be nice to see a change.

[baseball]

what is the enrollment for mayport....the towns arent huge so i dont see why they are called a bigger school just because they are a powerhouse.  some schools jsut have better coaches and better players.

[ndfan]

NDHSAA has Mayville 9-12 at 195

Larimore 198
Grafton 285
Kindred 208
Dickinson Trinity 173
Langdon 222
Watford City 197
Central Cass 255
Des Lacs Burlington 206

Just some of the Schools I saw.

[baseball]

NDHSAA has Mayville 9-12 at 195

Larimore 198
Grafton 285
Kindred 208
Dickinson Trinity 173
Langdon 222
Watford City 197
Central Cass 255
Des Lacs Burlington 206

Just some of the Schools I saw.

my point is.....no one is throwing DLB, central cass, or larimore out there as teams that shoudl be moved.

[ndsportsfan98]

Even though I, like most people, would like to see other teams besides the Trinity's & MayPorts make it to the state tournament, I don't think it would be a good idea to change to a 3 class system.  The powerhouses is what makes this tourney so special.  Whenever there's a Rhame that makes it out of the region instead of a Trinity, or a North Border winning it all out of MayPort's region, or a Berthold instead of a Minot Ryan, fans relish that.  Don't get me wrong, MPCG, and Trinity and teams similiar that make it year in and year out made it there for a reason, and not always because they are "bigger" schools, it's because they are GOOD and have tremendous athletes who work hard at the sport.  I've been told by native South Dakotans (who I believe went from a 2 class to a 3 class system) that if ND would change, it would be a BIG mistake.  ND class B tourney is the "granddaddy" of all ND tournaments, and to change it so "smaller enrolled" schools can have a better opportunity to go to the big dance , would not a worthy reason in my opinion. 

[baseball]

thats why i like region 3....its wide open year in and year out.

[bison_18]

Small schools do have a chance. Anyone see NR-S in the state tournament 3 years in a row and winning it in 2005. Yeah some teams may have more talent, but alot has to do with what you do with the talent you have.  It just goes to show that even if you don't have THE best team, you can still be very competetive. Teams will win alot of games, indiviuals with talent won't get very far.

[NDSUBison]

A three class system in North Dakota can be compared to the 128 system that was proposed for college basketball this year. There are on average eight teams per district, and there are 16 districts. That means there are about 128 teams that have a chance at winning state when tournaments begin. Then we slim that number down to 64 when region's come around. After that it's eight, than four, than two, than one. If we make a three class system, then we have to change so many things. I mean, yes schools are combining and soon all we are going to have is region and state, but why try to change something. Keep it the way it is. That 128 team system that was proposed for college basketball was shot down rather quickly on the bais of why change something that isn't broken.

[hasbeen144 life]

Three class system would be bad for Class B.  In baskeball you only need 5 thus schools like Munich are able to compete with Langdon.  Grafton's enrollment is the biggest and you never see them with any advantage.  It is why the State B is held on the ground it is now and its cult following.   No matter how big your school is you never dress more then 12 and rarely more than 10 see any time in a 32 minute game.

Indiana high school basketball was a bigger story line then the Hoosier's and Pacers until they classified thus the reason to make movies about a single team an season.  It has been storied that classification ruined Hoosier basketball. 

Football it was more of a necessity due to the injuries that game produces means you need numbers.  Then take that Fargo South ect  does not need to go iron man.  Football numbers are needed and a coach could really take advantage of numbers in hoops it is not as big of a factor if a factor at all.

[digger]

It seems like the perceived dominance is more of a result of the quality of the basketball program, not the enrollment.  Nobody mentions Langdon, Larimore, Newtown, Central Cass, Des Lacs Burlington, Kindred, Grafton, Watford City, Beulah, Hazen, Oak Grove, Rugby, Ryan, etc., when talking about competitive balance.  These schools have a better chance to be consistently competitive because of their larger enrollment, but they certainly aren't dominant.  Smaller schools knock them off on a consistent basis.  A large part of the appeal of Class B basketball is having smaller schools go on one, two or even three year runs where they compete with anyone in the state; Milnor a couple of years ago, Richland the last two years, Parshall last year and this year.  As more and more co-ops form for demographic and financial reasons, I think the enrollment gap will likely shrink between school districts anyway.  If Richland would have had to go through North, South, or West Fargo to get to state last year, or if Parshall had to go through Minot, Williston, or Bismarck High I might feel differently.   

[NATURAL TALENT]

"If it isn't broke, don't try to fix it."

[The Schwab]

Great way to sum it up

[north_border_eagles2106]

I would personally like to see far fewer co-ops so making it to state is a big deal.  I played in district 4 and "back in the day" which was a wednesday, the teams were

North Border (pembina, neche)
Walhalla
Drayton
St. Thomas-Valley
Park River
Fordville-Lankin
Minto
Midway
Edinburg
Cavalier

Now the following teams are a part of it

North Border (pembina,neche,walhalla)
Cavalier
Drayton St. Thomas
Park River
Fordville Lankin
Midway-Minto
Valley- Edinburg
Grafton

we went from having 7 teams of just one town to 3 before we knew it.  grafton was class A until a few years ago.



The subject of powerhouse teams like may-port and dickinson, the only reason people hate them is the same reason no one likes the yankees other then yankee fans.  they don't like them because they are there every year but the region championships aren't handed to them, every year they have great players that practice year round.  on every great may port team theres been at least one player that is known throughout the state.  travis kraft, craig nelson, and now luke lorenz to name a few.  If you don't like powerhouses what do you call mandan in girls basketball, thompson in baseball, over in minnesota stephen argyle just finished their fourth straight undefeated season and 54 wins in a row, and the year prior to that streak they lost in the state championship game.  they are the biggest "powerhouse" or "dynasty" there is around in small town sports.  in 13 years they have lost 3 regular season games, stephen and argyle combined would be a stretch to say they have 1000 people in both towns.  they are the same size or smaller then the quote "small" class b schools over here.  theres never been talk of recruiting or bumping them up to a higher class, if you are dominant at you're level it doesn't mean you should be bumped up it just means you are good at what you're doing and you should be congratulated for it.

[ndsportsfan98]

Good post NB eagle.  I totally agree.