zone in Junior High?

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Re: zone in Junior High?

Postby ndlionsfan » Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:43 pm

There's a set number of quarters from the NDHSAA that JH kids can play
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Re: zone in Junior High?

Postby sportsking » Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:10 am

Run4Fun2009 wrote:
sportsking wrote:As a coach in JH I believe that if the kids are talented enough, it is correct. You can teach them more. My problem is, kids coming from 5th and 6th grade have not been worked with enough on the basics. I also believe that it should be a decision of the AD, jh coach, and jv, varsity coaches on what the program would like to cover. I have worked close with the jv, varsity coaches on what is lacking, and what direction they are headed. I also have had it were the 8th grade is way above what the 7th grade is. The 1 thing I would like to see, is games, more games, a Why do AD's not get together with each other and create more for the jh levels? I have A group of 8th graders that would love to play 28 games like the varsity.nd set it up for district tourney's for these kids. Just having 10 to 12 games and done is not enough. They can play zone, but prefer man to man. Also, the fast break is nice, but try to tell them to set an offense up and learn to work it that way once in awhile.


Because the NDHSAA sets up this rule...and I believe its been upped to 15 games allowed during a season.


Run, You are correct. I am wondering with all the changes made over the last few years, if there should be some changes at the lower levels too. The NDHSAA could just as well change things for the lower grades. I do know there is a limit to how many quarters they can play. Maybe if we could have more games during the school year, the kids good actually receive more coaching, I guess what I really am saying is, its what you learn in the lower levels that can get you a opportunity to play at the high school level, I would just like to see more for the JH levels.
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Re: zone in Junior High?

Postby Hinsa » Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:36 pm

sportsking wrote:As a coach in JH I believe that if the kids are talented enough, it is correct. You can teach them more. My problem is, kids coming from 5th and 6th grade have not been worked with enough on the basics. I also believe that it should be a decision of the AD, jh coach, and jv, varsity coaches on what the program would like to cover. I have worked close with the jv, varsity coaches on what is lacking, and what direction they are headed. I also have had it were the 8th grade is way above what the 7th grade is. The 1 thing I would like to see, is games, more games, and set it up for district tourney's for these kids. Just having 10 to 12 games and done is not enough. Why do AD's not get together with each other and create more for the jh levels? I have A group of 8th graders that would love to play 28 games like the varsity. They can play zone, but prefer man to man. Also, the fast break is nice, but try to tell them to set an offense up and learn to work it that way once in awhile.


As I said in previous posts on this topic, I agree with your assessment on teaching zone defense in junior high. However, I would respectfully disagree with your thoughts on playing more games.

We just went through a stretch where we had 4 games within 7 days and only one practice. I had no time to correct or change what things I was seeing in the games. In my opinion, junior high kids need practice time after every game to talk about what they learned and show what they need to change.

Also, if you are playing 28 games in a 3 month season, kids would get few practices. Let's say for the sake of arguement that 3 months = 13 weeks. I'm using a premise that there are no practices on Wednesdays (not an option in our community) and rare practices on Saturdays. That leaves you 4 days a week to practice. 13 x 4 = 52 days plus 3 Saturdays = 55 days.

You have to have 9(?) practices before you can play, leaving 46 days. Holidays take up another week's worth of dates, leaving 41 days. 28 game dates leaves you 13 days. So after the opening 2 weeks of practice there will only be 13 days of practice.

That leaves precious little time for work on individual fundamentals and teaching team offense and defense. So 12 games plus a 3-game jamboree is plenty of games in my mind.
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Re: zone in Junior High?

Postby sportsking » Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:59 pm

I completely agree with your concept of the practices! We are like you in the fact that we cannot practice on wednesdays. I do have some saturday practices, depending on the game schedule. I have brought in game tape for the kids to watch, as part of practice. It really has changed how long it takes to correct things from previous games. The kids enjoy learning from it, and its easier to explain what they need to correct. I agree that practice is what they need, but when you have a weak 7th grade it makes it hard to get the competition the 8th grade needs. I have scrimmaged the C -squad which does help alot too. We also run into the problem of some towns dont have a certain grade, they have a combined group. Maybe it would make more sense to allow coaches to take these kids to off - season tourneys. Most places do not allow a "coachfrom the school season to take kids to these tourneys. I just think that more needs to be done to ease the transition from JH to high school levels.
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Re: zone in Junior High?

Postby mags » Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:32 pm

i have coached junior high numerous times this is my opinion.

I feel zone and press absolutly SHOULD be allowed in junior high reasons are:

its tough for 5'6" kids to cover a lot of area in a zone so its really not tough to beat

I welcome someone to zone my team becuz i typically have one or 2 great 3 point shooters

its a good answer for when the other team has a 6 foot kid, who is half a foot taller then "your" tallest

MANY MANY MANY freshman around the state play significant varisty minutes and need to be prepared.
its not fair to not be able to teach your good kids the WHOLE game of basketball

and finally my school has 8 grade A team and B team. and usually we dont do it in the B game if the other team would prefer not too. but i would be fine with it.

and again it is legal officaly unless the home team outlaws you
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Re: zone in Junior High?

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Mon Jan 02, 2012 5:03 pm

mags wrote:i have coached junior high numerous times this is my opinion.

I feel zone and press absolutly SHOULD be allowed in junior high reasons are:

its tough for 5'6" kids to cover a lot of area in a zone so its really not tough to beat

I welcome someone to zone my team becuz i typically have one or 2 great 3 point shooters

its a good answer for when the other team has a 6 foot kid, who is half a foot taller then "your" tallest

MANY MANY MANY freshman around the state play significant varisty minutes and need to be prepared.
its not fair to not be able to teach your good kids the WHOLE game of basketball

and finally my school has 8 grade A team and B team. and usually we dont do it in the B game if the other team would prefer not too. but i would be fine with it.

and again it is legal officaly unless the home team outlaws you


I believe its a district decision.
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Re: zone in Junior High?

Postby Flip » Mon Mar 14, 2016 12:22 pm

Has this changed in any districts/regions in the last couple years?
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Re: zone in Junior High?

Postby ndlionsfan » Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:13 pm

I ref a lot of JH games and have had a few visiting coaches question it. Our district and region doesn't have any rules for/against it. Almost all of our games are 7/8 together and the 8th graders need to be able to make the transition to JV/V ball next year, so I'm all for it at the JH level.
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Re: zone in Junior High?

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:36 pm

not allowed in District 2
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Re: zone in Junior High?

Postby d_fense » Tue Mar 15, 2016 12:44 am

In my opinion it takes a matter of a few minutes to explain the rules of a zone defense to a player. What makes a zone good are all things you work on in man defense, moving your feet, stopping penetration, closing out, and etcetera. I don't believe there is any transition that is needed as far as zone defense goes for moving into jv or varsity. I've never had a freshman or spoke to another coach who had one and said that the freshman would get some, or more time if only they played better zone defense. It is actually much more likely if a coach is in a position where they are playing younger kids, they are more likely to play zone defense.

Practice time is to precious in jr high to mess with the different offenses that are needed against so many different defenses. My only experience with junior high basketball comes along the Red River in districts 1,2,3, & 4. I've never seen any team play anything other than man.
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Re: zone in Junior High?

Postby Indy5 » Sat Mar 19, 2016 9:46 pm

d_fense wrote:In my opinion it takes a matter of a few minutes to explain the rules of a zone defense to a player. What makes a zone good are all things you work on in man defense, moving your feet, stopping penetration, closing out, and etcetera. I don't believe there is any transition that is needed as far as zone defense goes for moving into jv or varsity. I've never had a freshman or spoke to another coach who had one and said that the freshman would get some, or more time if only they played better zone defense. It is actually much more likely if a coach is in a position where they are playing younger kids, they are more likely to play zone defense.

Practice time is to precious in jr high to mess with the different offenses that are needed against so many different defenses. My only experience with junior high basketball comes along the Red River in districts 1,2,3, & 4. I've never seen any team play anything other than man.

I think you can naturally get better at playing zone the more you do it. However, I think the biggest adjustment to seeing it the first time isn't playing it yourself. The part that takes practice is learning how to play against it from an offensive aspect. You can tell your players where to line up to exploit the weak spots, but it takes practice to learn things that are effective in beating it.
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Re: zone in Junior High?

Postby Indy5 » Sat Mar 19, 2016 9:54 pm

Hinsa wrote:I've been coaching Junior High BB for quite a few years, and my opinion on zones has changed.

District 3 currently does not allow zones or double teams. You can hedge on ball screens. You can press, man-to-man, if the game is within 10 points either way. You can play help defense and double the ball in the post.

You might ask why can't a team press if they are down more than 10 and the answer to that is we've had guys start pressing when the scrubs were playing for the team that is ahead. This lead to coaches being hesitant to put their scrubs in which defeats the purpose of all kids learning and improving.

We've also had unscrupulous coaches abuse the no double-team rule. A while back there was one team that had 2 players and 3 guys who could walk and chew gum but that's about it. So the coach would put the 3 poor players way on one side of the court and go two on two on the other side of the court. When my defensive players would try to help out on the 2 good players when they went to the basket, I was told I was not following the no double team rule. That certainly lead to some lengthy discussion at the district meeting to stop that kind of nonsense.

I used to believe in the philosphy of no zones in junior high, but I have changed on that. Here's why. These kids, especially the 8th graders, are one year away from playing JV or even varsity ball where they need to know how to play a zone and a zone press. They get to be freshmen and they have no clue how to do it. Also, it is difficult to administer the no double-team rule when you play help defense inside and hedge on screens.

I would just as soon let the kids start to learn zone principles on defense and learn how to attack it on offense. If you get good ball movement you really don't have to settle for 3-pointers. You can find good shots against a zone just as much as you can a man-to-man. As far as zones not teaching kids how to play defense, a zone where kids don't hustle and move and guard people is a crappy zone. If they are going to play a good zone they are learning good defensive principles.

That's an old guy's take on this issue. 8)

I completely agree. I don't think 7th and 8th graders should be restricted from doing anything. They aren't that far away from playing Varsity in a lot of cases. Kids at that age should be able to handle it. I just don't think you should develop skills that don't include the entire game of basketball.
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