North Dakota Preps

If it seems the same we could check our eyes for blinders.....If someone points out specific changes, then they are called undiscerning because 8 teams still show up in march and 8 towns shut off all the lights (which is not even close to the truth anymore) and go to State...It does not mean that Class B in ND is still the Mecca...because if some things do not change in the next 5 years the so called nostalgia will drift farther away than it already has.

I would hope people recognize things are different than they were in the 70's and 80's. Population dynamics more than any other factor is responsible for that. However, the fact that things are different doesn't mean that a 2 class system is not the best current system, and it most certainly doesn't mean that choosing any different system would restore things to the way they were in the 70s and 80s. To think that such a restoration could actually happen is to have blinders on.

NDplayin wrote:I would hope people recognize things are different than they were in the 70's and 80's. Population dynamics more than any other factor is responsible for that. However, the fact that things are different doesn't mean that a 2 class system is not the best current system, and it most certainly doesn't mean that choosing any different system would restore things to the way they were in the 70s and 80s. To think that such a restoration could actually happen is to have blinders on.

I did not say that things were simply different, I said that there has been changes made that changed the dynamics...and the only move I would vote in is ONE Class....Sophomores and older can play and or dress on Varsity both Girls and Boys.

winner-within wrote:

NDplayin wrote:I would hope people recognize things are different than they were in the 70's and 80's. Population dynamics more than any other factor is responsible for that. However, the fact that things are different doesn't mean that a 2 class system is not the best current system, and it most certainly doesn't mean that choosing any different system would restore things to the way they were in the 70s and 80s. To think that such a restoration could actually happen is to have blinders on.

I did not say that things were simply different, I said that there has been changes made that changed the dynamics...and the only move I would vote in is ONE Class....Sophomores and older can play and or dress on Varsity both Girls and Boys.

So you don't think frehsman should be allowed to play varsity?

Indy5 wrote:

winner-within wrote:

NDplayin wrote:I would hope people recognize things are different than they were in the 70's and 80's. Population dynamics more than any other factor is responsible for that. However, the fact that things are different doesn't mean that a 2 class system is not the best current system, and it most certainly doesn't mean that choosing any different system would restore things to the way they were in the 70s and 80s. To think that such a restoration could actually happen is to have blinders on.

I did not say that things were simply different, I said that there has been changes made that changed the dynamics...and the only move I would vote in is ONE Class....Sophomores and older can play and or dress on Varsity both Girls and Boys.

So you don't think frehsman should be allowed to play varsity?

Nope...Plenty of time to Play...these Programs focusing on total points in a career and Playing the Freshman and 8th graders because their the Coaches kid or the Superintendents kid is Bogus....the exception could be, prior to the Season an agility and aptitude test could be given to a Freshman wanting to play up....definitely no 8th graders....I've seen to many programs loose out building a true team by bringing up so called future superstars to early....And if NDHSAA want to one class you will need bulk and smarts to compete...which is IMO Sophomores JR Seniors.

Indy5 wrote:

winner-within wrote:

NDplayin wrote:I would hope people recognize things are different than they were in the 70's and 80's. Population dynamics more than any other factor is responsible for that. However, the fact that things are different doesn't mean that a 2 class system is not the best current system, and it most certainly doesn't mean that choosing any different system would restore things to the way they were in the 70s and 80s. To think that such a restoration could actually happen is to have blinders on.

I did not say that things were simply different, I said that there has been changes made that changed the dynamics...and the only move I would vote in is ONE Class....Sophomores and older can play and or dress on Varsity both Girls and Boys.

So you don't think frehsman should be allowed to play varsity?

Nope...Plenty of time to Play...these Programs focusing on total points in a career and Playing the Freshman and 8th graders because their the Coaches kid or the Superintendents kid is Bogus....the exception could be, prior to the Season an agility and aptitude test could be given to a Freshman wanting to play up....definitely no 8th graders....I've seen to many programs loose out building a true team by bringing up so called future superstars to early....And if the NDHSAA went to one class you will need bulk and smarts to compete...which is IMO Sophomores JR Seniors.

winner-within wrote:

Indy5 wrote:

winner-within wrote:

NDplayin wrote:I would hope people recognize things are different than they were in the 70's and 80's. Population dynamics more than any other factor is responsible for that. However, the fact that things are different doesn't mean that a 2 class system is not the best current system, and it most certainly doesn't mean that choosing any different system would restore things to the way they were in the 70s and 80s. To think that such a restoration could actually happen is to have blinders on.

I did not say that things were simply different, I said that there has been changes made that changed the dynamics...and the only move I would vote in is ONE Class....Sophomores and older can play and or dress on Varsity both Girls and Boys.

So you don't think frehsman should be allowed to play varsity?

Nope...Plenty of time to Play...these Programs focusing on total points in a career and Playing the Freshman and 8th graders because their the Coaches kid or the Superintendents kid is Bogus....the exception could be, prior to the Season an agility and aptitude test could be given to a Freshman wanting to play up....definitely no 8th graders....I've seen to many programs loose out building a true team by bringing up so called future superstars to early....And if NDHSAA want to one class you will need bulk and smarts to compete...which is IMO Sophomores JR Seniors.

First off, some schools have to play freshman out of necessity. Some play them because they are the best players that they have. I highly doubt that any play them because they want the kid to get so many career points.

Also, I seem to remember a certain team that you may know that had an 8th grader or two that played on varsity around 4 years ago.

If you're not going to eliminate the lowest three or four weight classes in wrestling, then eliminating freshman and below from varsity minutes in basketball will not fly. Under most circumstances, the lowest weight classes are full of seventh and eighth graders. I've often wondered if it's wise to put them out there against the occasional junior or senior (Century had a senior at 112 this year), but if it is okay in a combative sport like wrestling, I can't see it being a problem in basketball.

At some point, kids have to learn that you don't just get to play because of your age level. If the kid is better, play him over an older kid. Both learn a good lesson, and the team is probably better.

heimer wrote:If you're not going to eliminate the lowest three or four weight classes in wrestling, then eliminating freshman and below from varsity minutes in basketball will not fly. Under most circumstances, the lowest weight classes are full of seventh and eighth graders. I've often wondered if it's wise to put them out there against the occasional junior or senior (Century had a senior at 112 this year), but if it is okay in a combative sport like wrestling, I can't see it being a problem in basketball.

At some point, kids have to learn that you don't just get to play because of your age level. If the kid is better, play him over an older kid. Both learn a good lesson, and the team is probably better.

I agree at The current pace... but both wrestling and Basketball could be 1 Class in ND.....Your example is noted, but yet different.
I have a nephew who went to state, 7th grader at 103 he weighs 91 pounds....the 8th grader that beat him weighed 103...he won it all.....
This sport holds no weight with Basketball, because its weight oriented.....Moves and talent cant out weigh moves, talent and of course weight.
Basketball put to one Class in ND...would set the Stage of getting Players ready fro their last 3 years......90% of the early developers never get much better their last 2 years....

Since the strength of region thread got off topic I thought I'd add a thought to this thread.

If they go to 3 classes they should do so with the purpose of doing it for 3-4 years and if they need to tweak the system they can, if they want to scrap and go back to 2 classes they can do that too. It shouldn't be if we go to 3 classes that is the end of it and we're stuck with 3 classes forever.

I agree with that, I think one of the issues is that if they did it there would still be problems, so why not stick with what we have...you know "the grass isn't always greener...."

With that said, I really am not sure what is better either way....I do really think sooner or later it is coming whether we like it or not...I mean there is a reason it is brought up every few years...sooner or later I feel as if it will pass. Hey if college football can have a playoff system, anything can happen...lol.

one of the points Balla brought up has always hit home with me too....and that is, Turtle Mountain.....instead of designing a class that would entertain/intertwine them and the bigs of ClassB .....why not persuade the consolidations of more Class B towns to come together to have 450 to 550 kids in Highschool (cut off @ 600)
Then the privates could open up the doors to more Catholics or Lutherans and pump up their enrollments to compete with the schools who consolidate up.....and the ones that are froze in Class A as we speak.

winner-within wrote:one of the points Balla brought up has always hit home with me too....and that is, Turtle Mountain.....instead of designing a class that would entertain/intertwine them and the bigs of ClassB .....why not persuade the consolidations of more Class B towns to come together to have 450 to 550 kids in Highschool (cut off @ 600)
Then the privates could open up the doors to more Catholics or Lutherans and pump up their enrollments to compete with the schools who consolidate up.....and the ones that are froze in Class A as we speak.

because the primary focus of schools is education and not athletics. There are a few other good reasons not to do it too.

winner-within wrote:one of the points Balla brought up has always hit home with me too....and that is, Turtle Mountain.....instead of designing a class that would entertain/intertwine them and the bigs of ClassB .....why not persuade the consolidations of more Class B towns to come together to have 450 to 550 kids in Highschool (cut off @ 600)
Then the privates could open up the doors to more Catholics or Lutherans and pump up their enrollments to compete with the schools who consolidate up.....and the ones that are froze in Class A as we speak.

Consolidations just can't randomly come together....Let's use District 13 as an example. If Bowman Cty (100ish), Hettinger/Scranton (100ish), New England (50ish), and Mott-Regent (80ish) all came together, that may be about that many kids...but are you kidding me?! They are all scattered in about a 100 mile radius...you can't just hope to kill all the small schools just for the sake of competing, plus make kids travel all over just for practice.....Come on MAN.

Mike Ditka wrote:

winner-within wrote:one of the points Balla brought up has always hit home with me too....and that is, Turtle Mountain.....instead of designing a class that would entertain/intertwine them and the bigs of ClassB .....why not persuade the consolidations of more Class B towns to come together to have 450 to 550 kids in Highschool (cut off @ 600)
Then the privates could open up the doors to more Catholics or Lutherans and pump up their enrollments to compete with the schools who consolidate up.....and the ones that are froze in Class A as we speak.

Consolidations just can't randomly come together....Let's use District 13 as an example. If Bowman Cty (100ish), Hettinger/Scranton (100ish), New England (50ish), and Mott-Regent (80ish) all came together, that may be about that many kids...but are you kidding me?! They are all scattered in about a 100 mile radius...you can't just hope to kill all the small schools just for the sake of competing, plus make kids travel all over just for practice.....Come on MAN.

Thats perfect.... why do you think there are all these brand new schools in Fargo??? because everybody moved there....
and to compete in not just sports but Education etc etc....do you really think a kid in Adams ND is offered what a Kid in Grafton is, let alone West Fargo?? come on man....we cannot help the fact that the Farms grew and less kids were produced....these People (rightfully so) are staying put.....but they as families are already travailing all over the place for entertainment and shopping needs....plus they could let the schools take care of the majority of the travel expenses. .. you know the funds would be in place....
and your hundred mile thing is already taking place in some scenarios...ND is only 210 north to south and 360 east to west.....you have to make the hubs make sense and be as efficient as you can

we rode the bus on the long route for 1 hr and 15 mins and we were three miles from town...now days that same family would have 4 cars at the school...

you see what I mean about tunnel vision?

In addition, all there are limits, one of the things I thought was supposed to be important in High School athletics was about participation, not winning. If you start consolidating just to reach 450 - 550 kids. How many kids who may have participated are no longer going to be given the opportunity?

Your idea makes absolutely no sense and is such a backward way of thinking that its laughable. Ask all your buddies in Cavalier if they would like to go to school in Langdon or Grafton and see what response you get. Now double that distance in the western 2/3 of the state and its even more ludicrous. If people feel their kids are at such a disadvantage in a smaller town in ND they would just up and move to one of the larger cities. Some people have done that yes, but for the most part people choose to live in the smaller towns for the many advantages there is over the larger cities.

LBC wrote:In addition, all there are limits, one of the things I thought was supposed to be important in High School athletics was about participation, not winning. If you start consolidating just to reach 450 - 550 kids. How many kids who may have participated are no longer going to be given the opportunity?

They would have the same opportunity........work your butt off and try out
for the ones just going out for the heck of it (no matter the sport) they could find something they loved.
be it another sport or extracurricular..

ndlionsfan wrote:Your idea makes absolutely no sense and is such a backward way of thinking that its laughable. Ask all your buddies in Cavalier if they would like to go to school in Langdon or Grafton and see what response you get. Now double that distance in the western 2/3 of the state and its even more ludicrous. If people feel their kids are at such a disadvantage in a smaller town in ND they would just up and move to one of the larger cities. Some people have done that yes, but for the most part people choose to live in the smaller towns for the many advantages there is over the larger cities.

is it really?? Pembina County North already has 5 sports consolidated....Hmm... but yet havent done the 2 main.. Football (which would put them in AA) and BasketBall which would (like in 2001..when NB and Walhalla hooked up and some kids had to sit) make them a true contender @ State this season and the next 10 (like alot of bigs have just went thru) and are going thru.
Stay small...thats fine..


and also people will still be living in a small town....but their kids will be going to a Bigger School with more to offer....No different than the bedroom communities of GF Bis Fargo Minot Williston Dickinson Mandan

is or has Class b always been driven by emotions and the right last names???
because that would go away...not totally but perspectively

winner-within wrote:

ndlionsfan wrote:Your idea makes absolutely no sense and is such a backward way of thinking that its laughable. Ask all your buddies in Cavalier if they would like to go to school in Langdon or Grafton and see what response you get. Now double that distance in the western 2/3 of the state and its even more ludicrous. If people feel their kids are at such a disadvantage in a smaller town in ND they would just up and move to one of the larger cities. Some people have done that yes, but for the most part people choose to live in the smaller towns for the many advantages there is over the larger cities.

is it really?? Pembina County North already has 5 sports consolidated....Hmm... but yet havent done the 2 main.. Football (which would put them in AA) and BasketBall which would (like in 2001..when NB and Walhalla hooked up and some kids had to sit) make them a true contender @ State this season and the next 10 (like alot of bigs have just went thru) and are going thru.
Stay small...thats fine..


and also people will still be living in a small town....but their kids will be going to a Bigger School with more to offer....No different than the bedroom communities of GF Bis Farga Minot Williston Dickenson Mandan

is or has Class b always been driven by emotions and the right last names???
because that would go away...not totally but perspectively

Please come out to western north dakota and explain to me why people from south of bowman/scranton/hettinger that they should pack their kids up and go to school in dickinson.

The Schwab wrote:

winner-within wrote:

ndlionsfan wrote:Your idea makes absolutely no sense and is such a backward way of thinking that its laughable. Ask all your buddies in Cavalier if they would like to go to school in Langdon or Grafton and see what response you get. Now double that distance in the western 2/3 of the state and its even more ludicrous. If people feel their kids are at such a disadvantage in a smaller town in ND they would just up and move to one of the larger cities. Some people have done that yes, but for the most part people choose to live in the smaller towns for the many advantages there is over the larger cities.

is it really?? Pembina County North already has 5 sports consolidated....Hmm... but yet havent done the 2 main.. Football (which would put them in AA) and BasketBall which would (like in 2001..when NB and Walhalla hooked up and some kids had to sit) make them a true contender @ State this season and the next 10 (like alot of bigs have just went thru) and are going thru.
Stay small...thats fine..


and also people will still be living in a small town....but their kids will be going to a Bigger School with more to offer....No different than the bedroom communities of GF Bis Farga Minot Williston Dickenson Mandan

is or has Class b always been driven by emotions and the right last names???
because that would go away...not totally but perspectively

Please come out to western north dakota and explain to me why people from south of bowman/scranton/hettinger that they should pack their kids up and go to school in dickinson.

I wouldnt do that/and didnt say that.....but a nice new school along Hwy 12 to support the 4 southeast county's, would have any Beulah or D Trinity sweating

I think we agree on certain parts of your plan, but instead of mass consolidation a simple and trial period of lowering the class A cut line to 175, then those big schools (ie Trinity and Beulah) would be sweating, and the only reason I say that we should lower the cut line to 175 is this.. It is much easier to find a group of 8-10 kids in a school of 300 to compete with a school of 1200 than it is for a school of 80 to compete with a school of 300, and i've said this from the start.

Why not compromise and make a class from 175 to 600?

Agreed. I don't see any benefit to Class A by lowering the enrollment to 175. For the most part, we'd be adding more teams that are not competitive and just watering the league down.

I hope that people go back and read every post on this thread and all the other threads about 3 classes before we go any further with this topic.

For those who support a 3 class system, I would also recommend waiting until after the state title game to see what kind of evidence you have, if any. Right now, we are at 6 years in a row where a small public high school has advanced to the state B boys basketball championship game. (Parshall '07, Dakota Prairie '08, Turtle Lake-Mercer '09, Berthold '10, North Star '11 and '12, if my memory is correct)