North Dakota Preps

maddog1971 wrote:I am all for this plan. It gets the privates out of Class B basketball and in a place where they belong.
AND NO... BSM will not opt up to play in AA so your plan needs to just put them there... no options for moving up or down. Also I do not believe 4winds will opt up to play in AA. They want to win state.... they will play down.

So no Options for moving up or down.

Four Winds doesn't want to play Benson County, Rolette, Lakota, etc. if they don't have to...they'd rather schedule Shiloh, DT, OG, HCV, Beulah, etc...so why wouldn't they want to play in that division (middle division...Class A; no one said they'd move to AA).

maddog1971 wrote:I am all for this plan. It gets the privates out of Class B basketball and in a place where they belong.
AND NO... BSM will not opt up to play in AA so your plan needs to just put them there... no options for moving up or down. Also I do not believe 4winds will opt up to play in AA. They want to win state.... they will play down.

So no Options for moving up or down.

I agree that they shouldn't have to "opt up" and if I were to present this plan I would get rid of my .6 multiplier and they would be in the middle class anyway.

I do feel that FWM would opt up to the middle class for basketball because those are the teams they all schedule. I truly don't think they would stay class B where they wouldn't have many competitive games in the postseason.

I don't like that they are given the option to make that decision though....even if they ultimately do. The whole plan is a joke if they do decide to stay in B and win state every year going 21 and 0 and playing zero competitive games.

defensewinsgames wrote:I don't like that they are given the option to make that decision though....even if they ultimately do. The whole plan is a joke if they do decide to stay in B and win state every year going 21 and 0 and playing zero competitive games.

I agree, and by making the change to eliminate the .6 multiplier for very high levels of F/R lunch, which I feel would be the right thing to do because the schools that fall in that category don't struggle to field teams in basketball like they do in football, they would be in the middle class.

Playing in their only somewhat competitive contest of the year, former Class B team Watford City gets beat by Williston 63-46 last night. At least they didn't lose this one by 40 - 50, so let's consider this a "moral victory." Watford City now moved to 0-21 on the year. Ladies & Gents, another prime example of a team that should be in the middle class.

UNDSiouxfan wrote:Playing in their only somewhat competitive contest of the year, former Class B team Watford City gets beat by Williston 63-46 last night. At least they didn't lose this one by 40 - 50, so let's consider this a "moral victory." Watford City now moved to 0-21 on the year. Ladies & Gents, another prime example of a team that should be in the middle class.

Last year their girls team was in the state tournament - probably the 4th or 5th best team in class A. I'd argue that it depends on the program at times, not necessarily the school.

UNDSiouxfan wrote:Playing in their only somewhat competitive contest of the year, former Class B team Watford City gets beat by Williston 63-46 last night. At least they didn't lose this one by 40 - 50, so let's consider this a "moral victory." Watford City now moved to 0-21 on the year. Ladies & Gents, another prime example of a team that should be in the middle class.

So when Watford, Devils Lake and Whap do that to Edgeley and Park River in a 3 class system it will be ok ?

Park River has 115 kids 9-12 and that's boys and girls. I obviously didn't catch this mistake in my football plan or this plan for that matter. They would be firmly in the lowest class. My mistake on that miss on so many plans.

packers21 wrote:

UNDSiouxfan wrote:Playing in their only somewhat competitive contest of the year, former Class B team Watford City gets beat by Williston 63-46 last night. At least they didn't lose this one by 40 - 50, so let's consider this a "moral victory." Watford City now moved to 0-21 on the year. Ladies & Gents, another prime example of a team that should be in the middle class.

So when Watford, Devils Lake and Whap do that to Edgeley and Park River in a 3 class system it will be ok ?

Everyone advocating for this, now do girls basketball.

BasketballMind wrote:

packers21 wrote:

UNDSiouxfan wrote:Playing in their only somewhat competitive contest of the year, former Class B team Watford City gets beat by Williston 63-46 last night. At least they didn't lose this one by 40 - 50, so let's consider this a "moral victory." Watford City now moved to 0-21 on the year. Ladies & Gents, another prime example of a team that should be in the middle class.

So when Watford, Devils Lake and Whap do that to Edgeley and Park River in a 3 class system it will be ok ?

Everyone advocating for this, now do girls basketball.

I feel the same way about it for girls that I do for boys. Obviously there are going to be teams that struggle. I personally feel it's a more equitable system than the current one.

Flying Wallenda wrote:

UNDSiouxfan wrote:Playing in their only somewhat competitive contest of the year, former Class B team Watford City gets beat by Williston 63-46 last night. At least they didn't lose this one by 40 - 50, so let's consider this a "moral victory." Watford City now moved to 0-21 on the year. Ladies & Gents, another prime example of a team that should be in the middle class.

Last year their girls team was in the state tournament - probably the 4th or 5th best team in class A. I'd argue that it depends on the program at times, not necessarily the school.

Yes, the program and athletes have a huge impact on how competitive these teams are. Yes, Watford City was very good in girls basketball last year, now this year they finished 4-14 in the WDA and fell back to 8th place again. Under the current system, it is possible for Wahpeton, Valley City, Watford City to make a deep postseason run. However, this is the exception that will probably happen only once in every 10 years. Since joining Class A, Watford City girls are 0-10 against Century, being outscored by an average of 72.2-40.8. The Watford City boys are 0-9 against Century, being outscored by an average of 86.4-38.8. For context, the Watford City girls played against Century in the West Region Tournament 1 vs. 8 in 2019 and in the West Region Championship last year. The Watford City boys played against Century in the 6 vs. 11 West Region play-in game last year.

Flying Wallenda wrote:

UNDSiouxfan wrote:Playing in their only somewhat competitive contest of the year, former Class B team Watford City gets beat by Williston 63-46 last night. At least they didn't lose this one by 40 - 50, so let's consider this a "moral victory." Watford City now moved to 0-21 on the year. Ladies & Gents, another prime example of a team that should be in the middle class.

Last year their girls team was in the state tournament - probably the 4th or 5th best team in class A. I'd argue that it depends on the program at times, not necessarily the school.

You do have a point with the WC girls team, but the last time a Watford City boys team could compete at the A level is when Fred Fridley Jr. played. 1990-1991-1992 timeframe, and a memorable championship game with small town Munich vs. WC. Truly a great time for class B hoops and a once in a 50 year team for Watford City. Not even sure if that team would've made an "A" Tourney back then, but most of the state would've been rooting for them.

packers21 wrote:

UNDSiouxfan wrote:Playing in their only somewhat competitive contest of the year, former Class B team Watford City gets beat by Williston 63-46 last night. At least they didn't lose this one by 40 - 50, so let's consider this a "moral victory." Watford City now moved to 0-21 on the year. Ladies & Gents, another prime example of a team that should be in the middle class.

So when Watford, Devils Lake and Whap do that to Edgeley and Park River in a 3 class system it will be ok ?

No it wouldn't, and I agree with you 100%. I would be against those middle schools ever playing against an Edgeley or a PRFL. To me, that would be the common sense factor that also needs to be added in to a 3 class proposal. Edgeley and Park River should stay in the lowest class; with Watford, DL, and Wahpeton in a middle class along with most of the privates and other large B's. Schwab has an excellent and well-thought out plan, and I would argue it's about 99% spot on. (And definitely 100% better than the current system of A and B)

UNDSiouxfan wrote:

Flying Wallenda wrote:

UNDSiouxfan wrote:Playing in their only somewhat competitive contest of the year, former Class B team Watford City gets beat by Williston 63-46 last night. At least they didn't lose this one by 40 - 50, so let's consider this a "moral victory." Watford City now moved to 0-21 on the year. Ladies & Gents, another prime example of a team that should be in the middle class.

Last year their girls team was in the state tournament - probably the 4th or 5th best team in class A. I'd argue that it depends on the program at times, not necessarily the school.

You do have a point with the WC girls team, but the last time a Watford City boys team could compete at the A level is when Fred Fridley Jr. played. 1990-1991-1992 timeframe, and a memorable championship game with small town Munich vs. WC. Truly a great time for class B hoops and a once in a 50 year team for Watford City. Not even sure if that team would've made an "A" Tourney back then, but most of the state would've been rooting for them.

packers21 wrote:

UNDSiouxfan wrote:Playing in their only somewhat competitive contest of the year, former Class B team Watford City gets beat by Williston 63-46 last night. At least they didn't lose this one by 40 - 50, so let's consider this a "moral victory." Watford City now moved to 0-21 on the year. Ladies & Gents, another prime example of a team that should be in the middle class.

So when Watford, Devils Lake and Whap do that to Edgeley and Park River in a 3 class system it will be ok ?

No it wouldn't, and I agree with you 100%. I would be against those middle schools ever playing against an Edgeley or a PRFL. To me, that would be the common sense factor that also needs to be added in to a 3 class proposal. Edgeley and Park River should stay in the lowest class; with Watford, DL, and Wahpeton in a middle class along with most of the privates and other large B's. Schwab has an excellent and well-thought out plan, and I would argue it's about 99% spot on. (And definitely 100% better than the current system of A and B)

I agree Scwab has the best plan, much better than Sheyenne. All that is is big schools trying to help other big schools. They have Manipulated little schools into buying into it. No matter what there are going to be teams that don’t compete.

The biggest thing about these plans that I don't like is it seems all we are trying to do is fix Boys B basketball, talking about this program or that program always win and poor team x never wins. This is going to affect GBB and GVB, all these winning BBB programs don't have the dominant girls programs that "are always winning", some do but alot don't, so how does this affect them. The bottom teams in each region aren't going to get magically get better if DT or HCV and FWM aren't there to beat them by 40-50 points. The bottom 4-5 teams in each region are usually the same ones, 1-3 wins a year against each other. I don't know I guess it just feels like it's more about not wanting the same schools in every year but I think it will just be the next level will have the same teams in every year, and then what 4 classes 5 classes. I am not against a different system but for the right reasons. Epping is not going back to the tourney. I do appreciate the thought and effort into it, sorry for the ramble, feel free to tell me I'm wrong and not seeing it right. Great discussion

Girls Teams that would struggle with any of the plans in the Middle Class
Team (2022 Record)
Tioga (7-15)
Velva (6-15)
Dickinson Trinity (6-16)
Oak Grove (5-16)
Standing Rock (4-15)
Killdeer (3-17)
Hillsboro-Central Valley (2-19)
Hazen (2-20)

WalkingStick wrote:Girls Teams that would struggle with any of the plans in the Middle Class
Team (2022 Record)
Tioga (7-15)
Velva (6-15)
Dickinson Trinity (6-16)
Oak Grove (5-16)
Standing Rock (4-15)
Killdeer (3-17)
Hillsboro-Central Valley (2-19)
Hazen (2-20)

Maybe currently, but I don't see most of these schools struggling for the next 10-15 years in the middle class. Velva, DT, OG, SR, HCV, and Hazen have all had good tradition and winning programs in the not too distant past. It's much easier for programs to turn it around quicker if they have 70+ girls in high school, plus enough kids for teams at each grade level 5-8. The smaller schools that are struggling have 30 girls in high school and enough for 1 JH team and 1 elem team. Much harder for them to have success against the middle class schools for a year or two, yet alone sustained success.

ndlionsfan wrote:

WalkingStick wrote:Girls Teams that would struggle with any of the plans in the Middle Class
Team (2022 Record)
Tioga (7-15)
Velva (6-15)
Dickinson Trinity (6-16)
Oak Grove (5-16)
Standing Rock (4-15)
Killdeer (3-17)
Hillsboro-Central Valley (2-19)
Hazen (2-20)

Maybe currently, but I don't see most of these schools struggling for the next 10-15 years in the middle class. Velva, DT, OG, SR, HCV, and Hazen have all had good tradition and winning programs in the not too distant past. It's much easier for programs to turn it around quicker if they have 70+ girls in high school, plus enough kids for teams at each grade level 5-8. The smaller schools that are struggling have 30 girls in high school and enough for 1 JH team and 1 elem team. Much harder for them to have success against the middle class schools for a year or two, yet alone sustained success.

Have you taken a look at the rosters of some of these teams? Skeleton crews. I don't think dropping off the teams they picked their 2-3 wins up against and adding a pile of travel will help restore their programs.

Flying Wallenda wrote:

ndlionsfan wrote:

WalkingStick wrote:Girls Teams that would struggle with any of the plans in the Middle Class
Team (2022 Record)
Tioga (7-15)
Velva (6-15)
Dickinson Trinity (6-16)
Oak Grove (5-16)
Standing Rock (4-15)
Killdeer (3-17)
Hillsboro-Central Valley (2-19)
Hazen (2-20)

Maybe currently, but I don't see most of these schools struggling for the next 10-15 years in the middle class. Velva, DT, OG, SR, HCV, and Hazen have all had good tradition and winning programs in the not too distant past. It's much easier for programs to turn it around quicker if they have 70+ girls in high school, plus enough kids for teams at each grade level 5-8. The smaller schools that are struggling have 30 girls in high school and enough for 1 JH team and 1 elem team. Much harder for them to have success against the middle class schools for a year or two, yet alone sustained success.

Have you taken a look at the rosters of some of these teams? Skeleton crews. I don't think dropping off the teams they picked their 2-3 wins up against and adding a pile of travel will help restore their programs.

I understand the numbers may be down, but my point is that it is probably more cyclical and could be built back up with the right coaches and parents at all levels due to the number of kids available. Take a look at a lot of the small schools that are trying to field teams with 8th/9th graders playing varsity and be competitive against the Langdon, Carrington, Grafton, and Kindreds of the state.

There are always going to be teams that struggle to compete. The three class system would put many more schools on a level playing field than the current 2 class system.

The Schwab wrote:There are always going to be teams that struggle to compete. The three class system would put many more schools on a level playing field than the current 2 class system.

YOUR plan is a decent plan Schwab. The new one being moved around only creates an easier avenue for the private school. People that think Shiloh and Ryan will opt up are wrong.

Flying Wallenda wrote:

The Schwab wrote:There are always going to be teams that struggle to compete. The three class system would put many more schools on a level playing field than the current 2 class system.

YOUR plan is a decent plan Schwab. The new one being moved around only creates an easier avenue for the private school. People that think Shiloh and Ryan will opt up are wrong.

Absolutely agree. Shiloh and Ryan would not opt up to the middle class.

Oak Grove will be under 145 in the near future...so that's another that would fall into that borderline category.

Flying Wallenda wrote:

The Schwab wrote:There are always going to be teams that struggle to compete. The three class system would put many more schools on a level playing field than the current 2 class system.

YOUR plan is a decent plan Schwab. The new one being moved around only creates an easier avenue for the private school. People that think Shiloh and Ryan will opt up are wrong.

Why do you think that?

The Schwab wrote:There are always going to be teams that struggle to compete. The three class system would put many more schools on a level playing field than the current 2 class system.

Agreed, your plan is way, way better than what we have now. The only thing I would add would be the wording that any school without defined boundaries (Privates) must play in one of the upper two classes.

Sportsrube wrote:

The Schwab wrote:There are always going to be teams that struggle to compete. The three class system would put many more schools on a level playing field than the current 2 class system.

Agreed, your plan is way, way better than what we have now. The only thing I would add would be the wording that any school without defined boundaries (Privates) must play in one of the upper two classes.

I've really thought about this as well at length. I think with the F/R multiplier it gets those that should be in the middle class to the middle class (one could argue that Our Reedemers should be up there). There could be some tweaking to the F/R percentages and have larger multipliers if you are under 7.5% F/R.