Run4Fun2009 wrote:
4 classes of what...25-30 teams?? Feels watered down IMO...it’s either 2 classes or 3 classes (just has to be the right system).
scc wrote:I'm going to assume there is not a state in the union doing it this way. Do you think North Dakota is willing to be the first? I don't.
heimer wrote:In their immediate city limits or in the district?
I'm talking within the immediate city limits. Not farmland.
scc wrote:heimer wrote:I'm working on this, and will have details in another week or two. I'm attempting to pull information so as to be accurate.
I've lobbied for additional elements to be used for classification of teams. We know that enrollment isn't enough. Private schools have high access to a large pool of potential athletes. Larger B schools have more financial resources to pay coaches, hire them away from other towns, which complicates building programs. Also, large, spread-out co-ops of small towns have participation issues, even though their overall enrollment may compare.
So, this is the proposal I'm researching:
1) 400 and above is AA
2) 100 to 400 is A if their total taxable valuations within their city limits of their host school is above $2.5 million.
3) 100 to 400 is B if the total taxable valuations within their city limits of their host school is below $2.5 million.
4) Below 100 is B.
So far:
Every private school is A
Grafton, Hillsboro, Thompson, Central Cass, and Beulah are A by vaulation.
Kindred is B by valuation
Valley City, Wahpeton, and Watford City are A by enrollment
There are a number of communities that I have yet to reach out to for valuation numbers.
I think it makes sense. Larger tax bases will lead to better opportunities for athletes, just like they do for students. If we ignore the financial advantages, we are ignoring a big factor.
I'm going to assume there is not a state in the union doing it this way. Do you think North Dakota is willing to be the first? I don't.
The Schwab wrote:Using your number of 2.5 million, these public schools would make up the middle class based on Taxable Valuation only. All of these numbers come from http://www.ndlc.org/ArchiveCenter/ViewFile/Item/91 which I read to be city limits only.
Central Cass
Langdon
Oakes
Hettinger-Scranton
Divide County
Killdeer
Carrington
Beach
Hatton-Northwood
Thompson
Velva
Garrison
Washburn
Beulah
Hazen
New Town
Cavalier
Rugby
Enderlin
Lisbon
Milnor-North Sargent (I used gwinner's number)
Heart River (I used belfield's number)
Richardton-Taylor
HCV
MPCG
Grafton
Park River
Berthold
DLB (Used burlingtons number)
Kenmare
Harvey
Ray
Tioga
Big Blue wrote:So, Schwab and Heimer, you are cool with Trinity Christian or Our Redeemer's as Class A teams?
Big Blue wrote:They aren't mid-class schools. Sorry. They belong with small schools, because they are both very small schools with limited athletic traditions. Minnesota has private schools in the smallest class, I don't see why North Dakota should force small private schools to play up.
scc wrote:Change 100-400 to 200-400 and I will think about it. How's that for my resistant-to-change attitude?
heimer wrote:Schwab, part of the issue is that I was given bad data, particularly on Hazen, when I made my initial calls.
I can also say that these numbers will change in 2019, as Casselton is now over $9 million, and they are listed as over $8 million from the league of cities.
The bad data gave me a poor picture of where the cutoff should be. I'd propose the number move to $4 million. Those schools between 100-400 with taxable values of $4 million in their host city are middle division. Then divide that division into to a top end and bottom end, and give each division 4 spots in the state tournament.
The top part of that division could involve cities with over $10 million in taxables. That would separate out Valley City, Wahpeton, Watford City, Minot Ryan, Our Redeemers, Watford City, Trinity Christian, Dickinson Trinity, Tioga, Stanley, Beulah, Fargo Oak Grove for now. Within around three years, Central Cass would join that mix. As valuations go up, more will join, and you can index the separator to inflation for adjustments. That way, only communities that get sizably larger at one time move.
The rest of the teams that are above the $4 million dollar number compete for four spots.
Would make for a nice state tournament. And we'd be right around that 32 team number people seem to like.
The Schwab wrote:If I was in a school and these were our results the last 6 years in the 3 sports we sponsor by ourselves I'd say we have a pretty strong athletic traditions.
Boys Basketball- Region Runner Up, Region 3rd Place, Region 2nd Place, Region Champs, Region 3rd Place, Region 4th
Girls Basketball- Missed Regionals, Missed Regionals, Region Champs, Region 4th Place, Region Qualifier (lost by 2), Region Qualifier (lost by 2)
Volleyball- Region Champs, Region Champs, Region Champs, Region Champs, Region Champs, Region 3rd place
Big Blue wrote:The Schwab wrote:If I was in a school and these were our results the last 6 years in the 3 sports we sponsor by ourselves I'd say we have a pretty strong athletic traditions.
Boys Basketball- Region Runner Up, Region 3rd Place, Region 2nd Place, Region Champs, Region 3rd Place, Region 4th
Girls Basketball- Missed Regionals, Missed Regionals, Region Champs, Region 4th Place, Region Qualifier (lost by 2), Region Qualifier (lost by 2)
Volleyball- Region Champs, Region Champs, Region Champs, Region Champs, Region Champs, Region 3rd place
To the Schwab: This is a basketball topic on a basketball forum. Throw volleyball out. The girls and boys programs have made had just one appearance in their school's history. Doesn't sound like tons of basketball tradition to me.
It appears if you are learning how to mold information into your favor more and more everyday (like someone else on this form who you have sparred constantly with over the years, but have recently seemed to find a common bond with). Just my opinion, but Our Redeemers and Trinity Christian are small schools that should play against other small schools. Maybe, we will have an opportuntiy to discuss this more in depth at next year's state tournament like you and heimer did this winter.
Run4Fun2009 wrote:Big Blue wrote:The Schwab wrote:If I was in a school and these were our results the last 6 years in the 3 sports we sponsor by ourselves I'd say we have a pretty strong athletic traditions.
Boys Basketball- Region Runner Up, Region 3rd Place, Region 2nd Place, Region Champs, Region 3rd Place, Region 4th
Girls Basketball- Missed Regionals, Missed Regionals, Region Champs, Region 4th Place, Region Qualifier (lost by 2), Region Qualifier (lost by 2)
Volleyball- Region Champs, Region Champs, Region Champs, Region Champs, Region Champs, Region 3rd place
To the Schwab: This is a basketball topic on a basketball forum. Throw volleyball out. The girls and boys programs have made had just one appearance in their school's history. Doesn't sound like tons of basketball tradition to me.
It appears if you are learning how to mold information into your favor more and more everyday (like someone else on this form who you have sparred constantly with over the years, but have recently seemed to find a common bond with). Just my opinion, but Our Redeemers and Trinity Christian are small schools that should play against other small schools. Maybe, we will have an opportuntiy to discuss this more in depth at next year's state tournament like you and heimer did this winter.
The reason volleyball is part of the discussion is that the state won't take a 3 class system if that is not included...needs to cover GBB, BBB & VB; the State actually stated this when the first proposal came out a few years back. If 3-classes is going to happen it really needs to be 'sold' to the State 'leaders'.
The Schwab wrote:I have my reasons for wanting the 3 class, other people have theirs. Some people don’t want the 3 class and that’s fine. I used the 3 sports that school has on its own to discuss their athletic tradition. How many class B schools have played in 6 straight region semi finals for boys? I’d venture to say not very many. I will gladly discuss my views on sports with anyone. My views and opinions come from my experiences, if people think I mold my thoughts to fit my needs that’s their opinion. My stand on 3 class is: if it doesn’t happen, the gap will widen. Sure we may have a Cinderella team every year, but they’ll play for 7th more than they’ll play for 1st
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