3 class system

[classB4ever]

This is from last year:

I am going to predict the state field for the next 10 years. Let me ask if you would bet AGAINST the predictions being >75% correct.

Region 1 - Oak Grove
Region 2 - Grafton or H-CV (Thompson and/or Cavalier will win this region at least once in next 10 years)
Region 3 - a small school
Region 4 - Four Winds-Minn.
Region 5 - Shiloh
Region 6 - Bishop Ryan
Region 7 - Dickinson Trinity or Beulah
Region 8 - a small school

Here's predicting the 2019 state tournament using past history and current poll:

Region 1 Champ - Kindred (#6 big) 39% vs. Richland (#3 small) 30%
Region 2 Champ - HCV (#2 big) 61% - Thompson (#1 small) 39%
Region 3 Champ - LLM (RV) 60% vs. Carrington 40%
Region 4 Champ - FW-M > 75%
Region 5 Champ - Shiloh Christian > 75%
Region 6 Champ - Bishop Ryan > 58%
Region 7 Champ - Dickinson Trinity (home) 50% - Beulah (#10) 50%
Region 8 Champ - Powers Lake (RV) 60% vs. Mandaree 40%

State Finish:
1st Place - Big/Private - 70%
2nd Place - Big/Private - 57%
3rd Place - Big/Private - 52%
4th Place - Small School - 61%
5th Place - Big/Private - 61%
6th Place - Small School - 52%
7th Place - Small School - 61%
8th Place - Small School - 57%

[Sportsrube]

I am firmly convinced that ND will never go to a 3 class system and the NDHSAA will never do anything to force the Private Schools to move up to Class A. The only thing that would get the NDHSAA to consider any type of change would be if attendance at the State Class B and TV ratings for the State Class B dropped thru the floor. That would get their attention because it would affect the cash flow. Class B fans will not abandon the tournament. We will continue to attend or watch on TV in large enough numbers that the NDHSAA won't want to "fix" something they don't see as broken. It won't matter how many privates or big schools consistently make the tournament or that only a small percentage of Class B schools have a prayer of making to the State Tournament, money matters over competitive games.

[Bisonguy06]

This is from last year:

I am going to predict the state field for the next 10 years. Let me ask if you would bet AGAINST the predictions being >75% correct.

Region 1 - Oak Grove
Region 2 - Grafton or H-CV (Thompson and/or Cavalier will win this region at least once in next 10 years)
Region 3 - a small school
Region 4 - Four Winds-Minn.
Region 5 - Shiloh
Region 6 - Bishop Ryan
Region 7 - Dickinson Trinity or Beulah
Region 8 - a small school

Here's predicting the 2019 state tournament using past history and current poll:

Region 1 Champ - Kindred (#6 big) 39% vs. Richland (#3 small) 30%
Region 2 Champ - HCV (#2 big) 61% - Thompson (#1 small) 39%
Region 3 Champ - LLM (RV) 60% vs. Carrington 40%
Region 4 Champ - FW-M > 75%
Region 5 Champ - Shiloh Christian > 75%
Region 6 Champ - Bishop Ryan > 58%
Region 7 Champ - Dickinson Trinity (home) 50% - Beulah (#10) 50%
Region 8 Champ - Powers Lake (RV) 60% vs. Mandaree 40%

State Finish:
1st Place - Big/Private - 70%
2nd Place - Big/Private - 57%
3rd Place - Big/Private - 52%
4th Place - Small School - 61%
5th Place - Big/Private - 61%
6th Place - Small School - 52%
7th Place - Small School - 61%
8th Place - Small School - 57%

How did this pan out?

[classB4ever]

This is from last year:

I am going to predict the state field for the next 10 years. Let me ask if you would bet AGAINST the predictions being >75% correct.

Region 1 - Oak Grove
Region 2 - Grafton or H-CV (Thompson and/or Cavalier will win this region at least once in next 10 years)
Region 3 - a small school
Region 4 - Four Winds-Minn.
Region 5 - Shiloh
Region 6 - Bishop Ryan
Region 7 - Dickinson Trinity or Beulah
Region 8 - a small school

Here's predicting the 2019 state tournament using past history and current poll:

Region 1 Champ - Kindred (#6 big) 39% vs. Richland (#3 small) 30%
Region 2 Champ - HCV (#2 big) 61% - Thompson (#1 small) 39%
Region 3 Champ - LLM (RV) 60% vs. Carrington 40%
Region 4 Champ - FW-M > 75%
Region 5 Champ - Shiloh Christian > 75%
Region 6 Champ - Bishop Ryan > 58%
Region 7 Champ - Dickinson Trinity (home) 50% - Beulah (#10) 50%
Region 8 Champ - Powers Lake (RV) 60% vs. Mandaree 40%

State Finish:
1st Place - Big/Private - 70%
2nd Place - Big/Private - 57%
3rd Place - Big/Private - 52%
4th Place - Small School - 61%
5th Place - Big/Private - 61%
6th Place - Small School - 52%
7th Place - Small School - 61%
8th Place - Small School - 57%

How did this pan out?

I would say pretty good. 10 year predictions went 6 for 8. If you are going to hang your hat on this year's field for a case that all is well in class b, there's no use talking.

[Bisonguy06]

You’re right. If we can’t talk about this year’s state tournament field on the boys and girls side, we can’t have a conversation.

So I’m going to start us on a different path, and others can take the thread wherever you’d like to.

[Bisonguy06]

We don’t have a statewide competitive problem in class B. The problem is confined to a couple of our regions, and is mostly on the boys’ side of the field.

Tell me where I’m wrong.

[Bisonguy06]

The ‘solution’ that has not been tried is to draw up an enrollment-based three class proposal with a small number of teams in the middle class, to work with the private schools to encourage opting up into that middle class, and to applaud those that do.

Current class A would remain intact and should support this.
Current class B would retain the overwhelming majority of schools and would support.
I believe the middle class would have majority support, with a small # of dissenters.

The strategy of making the private schools public enemy #1, while enrollment trends are not in their favor, and drawing them into an ever larger middle class, has failed to draw majority support for twenty years and counting. The private schools are not universally opposed to three classes, and even if they were, they are too small in number to block a good plan from passing. It’s the state’s approach toward the private schools that is getting in the way of the middle class that most would like to see.

Tell me where I’m wrong.

[justplayalready]

look at the "monsters" that have been created to fight the boogeymen...

What has Oak Grove proof R1 given us??? or Grafton proof in R2. Linton proof R3. Trinity proof R7 etc. I think we know some of those answers...

Im not sure you can Shiloh proof R5...R6 is being Ryan proofed by Minot High not building a 2nd Class A, just public B's, what monster is looming there???

So now the Monsters we gave a pass to the last 5 - 10 years ago are now the problem...Moving them out and leaving some of the boogeymen can only lead back to new monsters...just as moving both the monsters and boogeymen out will lead to new boogeymen stepping in...I don't see a great solution any way, so????

[justplayalready]

Also since our Champions that slayed the boogeymen are now the monsters.. are we OK with the Boogeymen being our new Champions slaying our monsters????

[The Schwab]

I don't have any idea what you are talking about with "monsters" or "boogeymen". Just because 2 regions in the state don't have "monsters" doesn't mean the system isn't broken, period.

[Bison-Vikes #1]

I don't have any idea what you are talking about with "monsters" or "boogeymen". Just because 2 regions in the state don't have "monsters" doesn't mean the system isn't broken, period.

Had to read a few times to get it. Guessing a number of favorites got beat this year but wasn't real surprise because they could become the new team to beat in that region.
Guessing in R2, HCV would be a monster and Thompson is the boogeyman as Thompson has finally got over the top and will be tough to beat making them the new "monster". Beulah and DT are interchangeable. BR and OR are interchangeable. Shiloh is very predictable in R5, so it takes a very good team to upset them.
R1 is generally a toss up. OG was young this year. Richland has been known to have this team coming for some time. CC and Kindred will always be above average with CC being tough for a number of years to come. Enderlin will be in the mix next year so even though Richland has a bunch of starters coming back, repeating next year will be a challenge. R3, R4 and R8 are generally the most likely to have a smaller team at state tourney. That's my take on it anyway.

[justplayalready]

Grafton is Boogeyman in R2...

Boogeymen would be the privates and the Bigs that were most recent A's..The anybody but...X...

The monsters are the created big co-ops, the bigs and the metro bigs...teams that we were Ok with winning the B a few years back just to keep the Boogeymen from winning it...

[The Schwab]

Grafton is Boogeyman in R2...

Boogeymen would be the privates and the Bigs that were most recent A's..The anybody but...X...

The monsters are the created big co-ops, the bigs and the metro bigs...teams that we were Ok with winning the B a few years back just to keep the Boogeymen from winning it...

Ok that makes sense, thanks for the clarification.

[justplayalready]

The writing has been on the wall for years and as we start to grumble, we have a North Star...then we have
a Milnor, and everything is somehow fine, its not broken...Is it fine right now with the current final 8 now that the schools that we were somehow OK with fell short,...The Kindred's, HCV's ,4 winds of the world??? Are we at the point where its come full circle and we are pulling for the Grafton's to beat HCV...Oak Groves to beat Kindred???

Is it even worth fixing??? It will break again...

It is what it is and enjoy it...because the product right now is top notch???

Is it fair for all participating...does it have to be???

[The Schwab]

I would say it's been broken for about 15 years. It is worth fixing because I feel it could stop some co-ops from happening IMO.

[classB4ever]

I would say it's been broken for about 15 years. It is worth fixing because I feel it could stop some co-ops from happening IMO.

Yes.

The writing has been on the wall for years and as we start to grumble, we have a North Star...then we have
a Milnor, and everything is somehow fine, its not broken...Is it fine right now with the current final 8 now that the schools that we were somehow OK with fell short,...The Kindred's, HCV's ,4 winds of the world??? Are we at the point where its come full circle and we are pulling for the Grafton's to beat HCV...Oak Groves to beat Kindred???

Is it even worth fixing??? It will break again...

It is what it is and enjoy it...because the product right now is top notch???

Is it fair for all participating...does it have to be???

You have a unique way of asking questions to answer questions. A fun talent.

This year's field is a breath of fresh air in a sense. The tourney needed this IMHO.

Don't want to take away accomplishments from "any of the teams" as it isn't a cake walk to get to the B tourney no matter who you are. One reason for not responding on the main threads and generally won't during week of tourney. All teams should get to enjoy this. For some, it is a once in a lifetime achievement and hopefully something they treasure and will never forget. Would dare to say over the many years of "The B" that many athletes have had their lives redefined by having a great tourney.

My input on this thread is simply from following history and the predictability it has brought with it.

Going to enjoy Class B boy's basketball this week. Hope a lot of young kids are watching and this becomes their motivation to work hard and want to be on TV playing in the B tourney when they get older. Best of luck to all the players, coaches and fans. Put on a great show, have fun and hope you remember it forever. Will resume debate after tourney.

[Big Blue]

One interesting thing is that so many people think a three-class system would put an end to the private school discussion. I went to a state tournament in a different state last year and I believe all six classes had a private school represented. With at least two programs winning titles. As stated in the state tournament forum, many of the perennial powerhouse private schools would very well qualify to be in class c. Let's continue to enjoy our current system. Flaws and all. Because it's what has made Class B so fun all of these years!!!

[Bison-Vikes #1]

One interesting thing is that so many people think a three-class system would put an end to the private school discussion. I went to a state tournament in a different state last year and I believe all six classes had a private school represented. With at least two programs winning titles. As stated in the state tournament forum, many of the perennial powerhouse private schools would very well qualify to be in class c. Let's continue to enjoy our current system. Flaws and all. Because it's what has made Class B so fun all of these years!!!

No disrespect meant, but easy to say if you come from a region with no privates and you are part of a perennial powerhouse in said region. Just guessing though. If you enjoy good basketball and want competitive games, why would you not look at or consider a new system? It's because you might be on the good side of the fence and don't get your man licked by 30 every night. Just saying. My guess is it's not in your benefit to play like schools your size?

[Bison-Vikes #1]

Man licked vs a$$ kicked. Nice auto correction. Snow flake pc crap at its finest.

[Flip]

One interesting thing is that so many people think a three-class system would put an end to the private school discussion. I went to a state tournament in a different state last year and I believe all six classes had a private school represented. With at least two programs winning titles. As stated in the state tournament forum, many of the perennial powerhouse private schools would very well qualify to be in class c. Let's continue to enjoy our current system. Flaws and all. Because it's what has made Class B so fun all of these years!!!

what state? usually private schools don't get big enough to be in the largest class.

[Big Blue]

One interesting thing is that so many people think a three-class system would put an end to the private school discussion. I went to a state tournament in a different state last year and I believe all six classes had a private school represented. With at least two programs winning titles. As stated in the state tournament forum, many of the perennial powerhouse private schools would very well qualify to be in class c. Let's continue to enjoy our current system. Flaws and all. Because it's what has made Class B so fun all of these years!!!

what state? usually private schools don't get big enough to be in the largest class.

Nebraska. Creighton Prep is traditionally one of the top teams in Class A.

[ndlionsfan]

Anybody know what the smallest enrollment was to win a state championship? I saw a post on fb today that Bisbee-Egeland was in 1989. Said their enrollment that year was 50. Just got me thinking and curious if anyone knew if that was true or not.

[BISONFAN18]

I am over the private school discussion. 3 classes will make basketball better, no doubt about it. More importantly, a topic never discussed is open enrollment. End it. This going to school in a district where you don't live because of sports is the biggest travesty to ND basketball. I know private schools don't have a district and the way to handle that advantage is that they automatically play up a division.

[classB4ever]

Preface: I do not agree with yelling at or calling out high school kids while playing sports. Adults should know better. Team cheering sections will get carried away at times during a game but school officials generally do a good job of tamping it down.

A lot of talk on another thread concerning how the crowd cheered against Shiloh. Isn't that what Class B is all about? David vs. Goliath? Epping vs. Hillsboro? Isn't that how class b is set up now? People are surprised that a crowd turned on a private school in a state championship game? Really? Shiloh Christian has been to the state tourney 11 times in 17 years. This is class b basketball isn't it? Calling Shiloh the "Hillsboro" is about right. Thompson is far from an Epping, but first trip to state so what the heck. They will be back many times.

Certainly feel bad if the players of Shiloh were taunted, etc. Cheering against the team is one thing but the players don't deserve to be singled out. However, the Class B tournament is all about Hillsboro vs. Epping according to NDHSAA. David vs. Goliath. So when it plays out, kind of hard to rip the fans for playing into what it's sold as.

[Flip]

Nebraska. Creighton Prep is traditionally one of the top teams in Class A.

You're right. I looked it up, that's a big school.

A few years back the private schools dominating the lowest 3 classes in the MN state tournaments and I remember someone saying you don't have to worry about a private school winning AAAA because none of the private schools get big enough to compete in that class. But now that I'm looking closer at this Cretin-Derham Hall is a huge private school. Hopkins? sounds private to me. So maybe I'm just off my rocker.