3 class system

[maddog1971]

I think the ship has sailed on the 3 class system. With all the coops now I just don't see it changing to go back to single town teams if a third class in introduced. 10-15 years ago would have been the perfect time to get it started but now is just too late.

I disagree that it wouldn't be a good time to go to 3 class system: This model is just going off of my "success model" combining school size and tradition

Class AA- Current Class A teams
Class A- East- Central Cass, Kindred, Lisbon, Hillsboro-Central Valley, Northern Cass, Grafton, Fargo Oak Grove, Carrington, Rugby, Thompson, Langdon-Edmore-Munich, Oakes, Hatton-Northwood, Four Winds-Minnewauken, Bismarck Shiloh Christian, Velva
West-New Town, Beulah, Stanley, Heart River, Standing Rock, Hazen, Dickinson Trinity, Nedrose, Minot Bishop Ryan, South Prairie, Bowman County, Minot Our Redeemers, Williston Trinity Christian, Bottineau, DLB

Class B- Everyone else

This is a rough draft I literally put together in 5 minutes. If something doesn't make sense, so be it, but this is a thing that could work. We can have 3 classes and have different criteria than strictly school size.

There are currently around 107 Class B teams. Taking out 30 or so teams to create a 3rd division still leaves over 70 teams in the bottom class. I don't understand why people would think, even with the current co-ops, it wouldn't work and be very popular. There have been many proposals thrown out on here and any one of them could work. My main point is bringing back competitive basketball which will IMHO increase participation by pairing like teams against like teams.

Look at how many of the current top teams are traveling around the state to play against teams like themselves throughout the season. They are literally answering the question of "will it work or not?" They are telling us that something needs to be done and are willing to travel to make it happen. 2 cents.

Good Teams will always travel to find each other to test themselves. That has been going on in this state for 50 years. So nothing new. I still like Class B the way it is except for bumping the Privates out of the class. There are no numbers that support unfair bias to larger class B towns but their are plenty of numbers that support the Privates are unfair.

[maddog1971]

Shiloh Christian, Bismarck 1996, 1998, 2003-04, 2006-07, 2010, 2012-13, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019
Our Redeemer's (Minot) 2016
Fargo Oak Grove 1949, 1954, 1957, 1969, 1986, 2000-01, 2010-11, 2014-15, 2017
Dickinson Trinity 1999, 2001-07, 2011, 2013, 2016, 2017
Bishop Ryan 2017, 2018, 2019
Bishop Ryan/St. Leo's 1937-39, 1942-43, 1994, 1999-2000, 2004, 2006-08, 2011,

But here are some
Beulah 1938, 1949, 1951-52, 1970, 1984, 1989, 1996-98, 2010, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019
Hillsboro 1962, 1968, 1971, 1973-74, 1977, 1980-81, 1984, 1986, 1988-89, 1992, 1999
Hillsboro/Central Valley 2017, 2018
Linton 1934-35, 1948, 1950 1964-66, 1979-80, 1984-85, 1987, 1994, 2003-05, 2009, 2011
Linton-HMB 2012, 2014

[classB4ever]

Good Teams will always travel to find each other to test themselves. That has been going on in this state for 50 years. So nothing new. I still like Class B the way it is except for bumping the Privates out of the class. There are no numbers that support unfair bias to larger class B towns but their are plenty of numbers that support the Privates are unfair.

1. The traveling to find good teams may have been going on but not nearly to the extent it has in the past decade. The truth of the matter is, the better teams in state now "have to" travel due to the disparity from top to bottom in their said districts/regions. They have to travel in order to be challenged and get better. That's what this whole conversation is about.
2. There most certainly are numbers showing the success rate of big schools vs. number of them. However, you have to expect that bigger schools are going to be more successful. The question is, should they be 2:1 more successful? 3:1? 6:1?

[winner-within]

Good Teams will always travel to find each other to test themselves. That has been going on in this state for 50 years. So nothing new. I still like Class B the way it is except for bumping the Privates out of the class. There are no numbers that support unfair bias to larger class B towns but their are plenty of numbers that support the Privates are unfair.

1. The traveling to find good teams may have been going on but not nearly to the extent it has in the past decade. The truth of the matter is, the better teams in state now "have to" travel due to the disparity from top to bottom in their said districts/regions. They have to travel in order to be challenged and get better. That's what this whole conversation is about.
2. There most certainly are numbers showing the success rate of big schools vs. number of them. However, you have to expect that bigger schools are going to be more successful. The question is, should they be 2:1 more successful? 3:1? 6:1?

They only "have to" if their School program is behind it and supportive of it, along with the School they are looking to play....theres a process and it has to be sought out

[Sniper]

Shiloh Christian, Bismarck 1996, 1998, 2003-04, 2006-07, 2010, 2012-13, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019
Our Redeemer's (Minot) 2016
Fargo Oak Grove 1949, 1954, 1957, 1969, 1986, 2000-01, 2010-11, 2014-15, 2017
Dickinson Trinity 1999, 2001-07, 2011, 2013, 2016, 2017
Bishop Ryan 2017, 2018, 2019
Bishop Ryan/St. Leo's 1937-39, 1942-43, 1994, 1999-2000, 2004, 2006-08, 2011,

But here are some
Beulah 1938, 1949, 1951-52, 1970, 1984, 1989, 1996-98, 2010, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019
Hillsboro 1962, 1968, 1971, 1973-74, 1977, 1980-81, 1984, 1986, 1988-89, 1992, 1999
Hillsboro/Central Valley 2017, 2018
Linton 1934-35, 1948, 1950 1964-66, 1979-80, 1984-85, 1987, 1994, 2003-05, 2009, 2011
Linton-HMB 2012, 2014

If the middle class was made up of current class b private schools and the biggest current b schools then all of these teams except Linton-HMB would be in the middle class.

Class AA- Current class A schools
Class A- Current class B private schools and biggest 15-20 teams current class B schools
Class B- The rest

Add a request to move down a class for teams within 25% of the median that aren't regularly qualifying for the regional tournament.

Add a rule forcing teams with continued success to move up a class (winning x amount of championships in x amount of years, or making state semi-finals x amount of times in x amount of years)

Very similar to what the football plan looks like.

[Flip]

Class B girls state teams
1 - Kindred (211) or Central Cass (269)
2 - Grafton (244)
3 - LLM (127)
4 - LEM (177)
5 - Shiloh (IDK)
6 - Rugby (180)
7 - Hettinger-Scranton (125)
8 - Trenton (97)

[Run4Fun2009]

Class B girls state teams
1 - Kindred (211) or Central Cass (269)
2 - Grafton (244)
3 - LLM (127)
4 - LEM (177)
5 - Shiloh (IDK)
6 - Rugby (180)
7 - Hettinger-Scranton (125)
8 - Trenton (97)

Shiloh is 140 (9-12)

[The Schwab]

Class B girls state teams
1 - Kindred (211) or Central Cass (269)
2 - Grafton (244)
3 - LLM (127)
4 - LEM (177)
5 - Shiloh (IDK)
6 - Rugby (180)
7 - Hettinger-Scranton (125)
8 - Trenton (97)

Per ND DPI Hettinger is 73 and Scranton is 36 for a total of 109

[Flip]

Class B girls state teams
1 - Kindred (211) or Central Cass (269)
2 - Grafton (244)
3 - LLM (127)
4 - LEM (177)
5 - Shiloh (IDK)
6 - Rugby (180)
7 - Hettinger-Scranton (125)
8 - Trenton (97)

Per ND DPI Hettinger is 73 and Scranton is 36 for a total of 109

That is correct. Not sure what I did to come up with 125.

[The Schwab]

I didn't realize that Central Cass was that big, but it makes sense. Some of those schools could approach 300 for HS enrollment in the near future.

[Run4Fun2009]

I didn't realize that Central Cass was that big, but it makes sense. Some of those schools could approach 300 for HS enrollment in the near future.

Central Cass & Kindred are growing...I don't think they'll be at 325 any time soon but they will get to that 300 mark in the near future.

[classB4ever]

Yearly Predictions (Big School 170+ 9-12):
Region 1: Big School/Private 67%
Region 2: Big School 59%
Region 3: A Small School 84%
Region 4: FWM vs. field > 50%
Region 5: Shiloh Christian vs. field > 54%
Region 6: Big School/Private 63%
Region 7: Beulah/Dickinson Trinity 84%
Region 8: A Small School 67%

2020 Region Predictions:
Region 1: Richland vs. Central Cass This could go either way. Richland experience/CC depth.
Region 2: HCV vs. H-N Too much big game experience.
Region 3: SZ vs. EKM Toss up.
Region 4: FWM vs. St. John Experience, size, depth and gym.
Region 5: Shiloh Christian vs. Flasher Experience and depth.
Region 6: Rugby vs. Our Redeemers Experience and depth.
Region 7: Beulah vs. Dickinson Trinity Toss up. Going with gym.
Region 8: New Town vs. North Shore Plaza Toss up. Going with depth.

Average Yearly State Results:
1st Place - Big/Private 67%
2nd Place - Big/Private 59%
3rd Place - Big/Private vs. Small 50-50
4th Place - Small 58%
5th Place - Big/Private 59%
6th Place - Big/Private vs. Small 50-50
7th Place - Small 63%
8th Place - Small 58%

Average finish for last 7 years by Region:

Region 4 2.14
Region 6 3.29
Region 1 3.86
Region 2 4.71
Region 3 4.71
Region 7 4.71
Region 5 5.57
Region 8 6.86


Not knowing seeding or who will be there, will still give it a shot
2020 State Tourney Prediction:
1st Place - Four Winds-Minnewaukan (R4)
2nd Place - Rugby (R6)
3rd Place - Hillsboro-Central Valley (R2)
4th Place - Central Cass (R1)
5th Place - Dickinson Trinity (R7)
6th Place - Shiloh Christian (R5)
7th Place - Strasburg-Zeeland (R3)
8th Place - New Town (R8)

*Note - Nothing against any teams and certainly will be cheering for the underdogs. Good luck to all players and teams. Stay healthy and have fun.

[Flip]

I have relatives in the younger classes, they have 100 kids in their class

Fall enrollment according to DPI
K 84
1 73
2 78
3 72
4 73
5 72
6 68
7 70
8 68
9 93
10 63
11 68
12 45

The highest four year group is K-3 which is 307. Now their enrollment will continue to go up cause the town is growing and access from other area towns...but they aren't quite to the concern-level of hitting and exceeding 325.

One more thing to think about: Those DPI numbers for Central Cass don't include Mapleton Elementary, and many of those kids feed into CC in high school. Mapleton built the new school a couple of years ago and numbers are booming. Central Cass might be over 325 enrollment in the not too distant future because of it.

I know it's not necessarily Region 1 related, but also interesting to me is that Valley City projects to be under 325 in about 4 years and should stay there. New Town out west could be over 325 in 7-8 years.

quote a couple posts in another thread that I thought would be good discussion here.

Mapleton's DPI numbers
K 29
1 29
2 17
3 36
4 17
5 14
6 4

Besides CC where else do Mapleton students go after 6th grade?

[Run4Fun2009]

West Fargo is an option, I believe

[leroybla]

Mapleton just built a new elementary school. There are those in that community that envision a high school at some time in the (distant) future. It is my understanding that the majority (close to all) those "graduating" from Mapleton Elementary go to Central Cass. Possibly the low numbers in the 6th grade indicate that this age group has already moved on the CC or WF to acclimate to their next school.

[Run4Fun2009]

Mapleton just built a new elementary school. There are those in that community that envision a high school at some time in the (distant) future. It is my understanding that the majority (close to all) those "graduating" from Mapleton Elementary go to Central Cass. Possibly the low numbers in the 6th grade indicate that this age group has already moved on the CC or WF to acclimate to their next school.

A HS would be interesting and likely very necessary as Mapleton is growing too as a bedroom community of the F-M area.

[B Historian]

Mapleton just built a new elementary school. There are those in that community that envision a high school at some time in the (distant) future. It is my understanding that the majority (close to all) those "graduating" from Mapleton Elementary go to Central Cass. Possibly the low numbers in the 6th grade indicate that this age group has already moved on the CC or WF to acclimate to their next school.

A HS would be interesting and likely very necessary as Mapleton is growing too as a bedroom community of the F-M area.

Mapleton had a large percentage of elementary kids open enrolling in the neighboring districts before the new school was built. A brand new building must mean it's now fine for people to send their kids there, when not much else has changed.

I was told that at least 80% of the Mapleton kids go to Central Cass HS. If that is the case then CC could easily be over 325 in 6-7 years.

When you look at a town like Mapleton, what draws people there? Most of the time it's for the Class B experience for their kids- the same phenomenon you see with Thompson and Kindred and other schools that have grown simply due to proximity to a larger metro. So, what would probably expedite a Mapleton HS as much as anything would be if Central Cass became the new punching bag in the EDC.

[Run4Fun2009]

Mapleton just built a new elementary school. There are those in that community that envision a high school at some time in the (distant) future. It is my understanding that the majority (close to all) those "graduating" from Mapleton Elementary go to Central Cass. Possibly the low numbers in the 6th grade indicate that this age group has already moved on the CC or WF to acclimate to their next school.

A HS would be interesting and likely very necessary as Mapleton is growing too as a bedroom community of the F-M area.

Mapleton had a large percentage of elementary kids open enrolling in the neighboring districts before the new school was built. A brand new building must mean it's now fine for people to send their kids there, when not much else has changed.

I was told that at least 80% of the Mapleton kids go to Central Cass HS. If that is the case then CC could easily be over 325 in 6-7 years.

When you look at a town like Mapleton, what draws people there? Most of the time it's for the Class B experience for their kids- the same phenomenon you see with Thompson and Kindred and other schools that have grown simply due to proximity to a larger metro. So, what would probably expedite a Mapleton HS as much as anything would be if Central Cass became the new punching bag in the EDC.

So then my guess would be that a 3-class system will start to formulate again around that time frame...the biggest hurdle in the 3-class system is State Tournaments & Coverage (at least it seems like it because of the $$ involved); breaking down into a 3 class system based on enrollment is actually relatively simple (done it).

New West Fargo HS (Horace) starting in near future will move the EDC to 12 teams, unless VC falls below the 325-line by then.

Should be an interesting next few years.

[leroybla]

Mapleton is not a large district areawise. Besides that it has no main street. There's a gas station, great golf course, some manufacturing, trucking, and little else. I expect that much of the industry in Mapleton received significant property tax incentives to locate where they are. The school district has been criticized for decades for their physical plant as their old school was considered unsafe and deficient in many ways. It's one of the few, if not the only, common schools districts (K-6 only) in the state (maybe Lincoln?). The DPI has encouraged Mapleton for decades to join an adjoining district. Paying startup as well as operating costs for a full high school seems a long way off. The district has population for its size, but not an enormous tax base.

[B Historian]

Mapleton is not a large district areawise. Besides that it has no main street. There's a gas station, great golf course, some manufacturing, trucking, and little else. I expect that much of the industry in Mapleton received significant property tax incentives to locate where they are. The school district has been criticized for decades for their physical plant as their old school was considered unsafe and deficient in many ways. It's one of the few, if not the only, common schools districts (K-6 only) in the state (maybe Lincoln?). The DPI has encouraged Mapleton for decades to join an adjoining district. Paying startup as well as operating costs for a full high school seems a long way off. The district has population for its size, but not an enormous tax base.

I agree that the tax base isn't large, but provided the Maple River continues to be controlled the potential for pretty drastic population growth is there. Getting the new elementary school approved by the voters wasn't easy but now that it exists there would seem to be a chance to get a high school approved if the population gets up around 2K in the next decade.

[B Historian]

Mapleton just built a new elementary school. There are those in that community that envision a high school at some time in the (distant) future. It is my understanding that the majority (close to all) those "graduating" from Mapleton Elementary go to Central Cass. Possibly the low numbers in the 6th grade indicate that this age group has already moved on the CC or WF to acclimate to their next school.

A HS would be interesting and likely very necessary as Mapleton is growing too as a bedroom community of the F-M area.

Mapleton had a large percentage of elementary kids open enrolling in the neighboring districts before the new school was built. A brand new building must mean it's now fine for people to send their kids there, when not much else has changed.

I was told that at least 80% of the Mapleton kids go to Central Cass HS. If that is the case then CC could easily be over 325 in 6-7 years.

When you look at a town like Mapleton, what draws people there? Most of the time it's for the Class B experience for their kids- the same phenomenon you see with Thompson and Kindred and other schools that have grown simply due to proximity to a larger metro. So, what would probably expedite a Mapleton HS as much as anything would be if Central Cass became the new punching bag in the EDC.

So then my guess would be that a 3-class system will start to formulate again around that time frame...the biggest hurdle in the 3-class system is State Tournaments & Coverage (at least it seems like it because of the $$ involved); breaking down into a 3 class system based on enrollment is actually relatively simple (done it).

New West Fargo HS (Horace) starting in near future will move the EDC to 12 teams, unless VC falls below the 325-line by then.

Should be an interesting next few years.

The same association that rolls out a new football plan every 12 months won't touch basketball. You are right in that splitting up teams into divisions is easy but the logistics/media coverage is not. I think 3 classes will happen one day but it will take some creative ideas to get it done.

[packers21]

If CC gets to the 325 mark and VC drops belows I think theres a chance they revisit it. CC has some kids with parents at the NDHSAA.

[leroybla]

If CC gets to the 325 mark and VC drops belows I think theres a chance they revisit it. CC has some kids with parents at the NDHSAA.

I believe that Mapleton has more than 10 years to wait for their own high school. I don't believe that there is any appetite in WF to annex them. Their relatively small size district would require an enormous investment to their tax base (like Casselton's ethanol plant) to make an independent school feasible. While there have been lots of new homes (some quite expensive) built in Mapleton, homes bring students (expense) while businesses don't necessarily. Mapleton elementary relies heavily on local taxation (42%) compared to Casselton (23%)

http://institute-of-progressive-educati ... icts-1.jpg

[packers21]

If CC gets to the 325 mark and VC drops belows I think theres a chance they revisit it. CC has some kids with parents at the NDHSAA.

I believe that Mapleton has more than 10 years to wait for their own high school. I don't believe that there is any appetite in WF to annex them. Their relatively small size district would require an enormous investment to their tax base (like Casselton's ethanol plant) to make an independent school feasible. While there have been lots of new homes (some quite expensive) built in Mapleton, homes bring students (expense) while businesses don't necessarily. Mapleton elementary relies heavily on local taxation (42%) compared to Casselton (23%)

http://institute-of-progressive-educati ... icts-1.jpg

I should of been more clear, I was talking about the 3 class system.

[classB4ever]

Current Class B Poll:
SEVENTH POLL
Monday, January 25th, 2021

1. Enderlin (11) 9-1 213
2. Four Winds-Minnewaukan (9) 9-1 210
3. Dickinson Trinity (1) 12-1 188
4. Langdon/Edmore/Munich (2) 9-0 167
5. Grafton 10-1 138
6. Central Cass 9-1 97
7. Dunseith 7-1 70
8. Edgeley-Kulm-Montpelier 9-1 58
9. Ellendale 10-1 41
10. Kindred 6-2 26
Others receiving votes (RV): Powers Lake (9-1), Rugby (9-2), Beulah (7-4), Bishop Ryan (8-1), Linton-HMB (8-2), Bowman County (8-2), Oakes (7-3)

Proposed Class A Poll:
1. Four Winds-Minnewaukan
2. Wahpeton
3. Dickinson Trinity
4. Langdon/Edmore/Munich
5. Grafton
6. Central Cass
7. Dunseith
8. Kindred
9. Rugby
10. Beulah
Others receiving votes (RV): Valley City, Bishop Ryan, Shiloh Christian, Oak Grove, Thompson

Proposed Class B Poll:
1. Enderlin
2. Edgeley-Kulm-Montpelier
3. Ellendale
4. Powers Lake
5. Linton HMB
6. Bowman County
7. Oakes
8. Flasher
9. North Border
10. Drake Anamoose

Region 1A (2.8:1)
Valley City High School 339
Wahpeton High School 333
Central Cass High School 227
Kindred High School 200
Lisbon High School 178
Northern Cass High School 162
Milnor/North Sargent 140
Oak Grove High School 123

Region 2A (2:1)
Grafton Spoilers 268
Four Winds/Minnewaukan 231
Hillsboro/Central Valley 213
Langdon Area/Edmore/Munich 176
May-Port CG HS 153
Carrington High School 148
Park River/Fordville-Lankin 143
Thompson High School 132

Region 3A (3.6:1)
Watford City 387
Bottineau High School 195
Stanley High School 192
Dunseith High School 190
Harvey/Wells County 181
Des Lacs-Burlington HS 175
Rugby High School 166
Bishop Ryan High School 109

Region 4A (1.9:1)
New Town High School 261
Beulah High School 201
Standing Rock Community High School 200
Hazen High School 174
Heart River 174
Dickinson Trinity High School 150
Killdeer High School 142
Shiloh Christian High School 140

Region 1 B (2.6:1)
Oakes High School 138
Edgeley/Kulm/Montpelier 133
Wyndmere/Lidgerwood 131
LaMoure-Litchville/Marion 119
Linton/HMB Lions 117
Kidder County High School 115
Napoleon/G-S Imperials 101
Ellendale High School 95
South Border Mustangs 91
Barnes County North High School 84
Medina-Pingree/Buchanan 83
Enderlin High School 82
Richland High School 79
Hankinson High School 76
Finley-Sharon/Hope Page 74
Maple Valley High School 61
Sargent Central High School 59
Strasburg/Zeeland 54
Tri-State: Fairmount-Campbell-Tintah-Rosholt 0

Region 2B (2.6:1)
Cavalier High School 129
Hatton/Northwood 125
Midway/Minto 122
St. John High School 121
Drayton/Valley-Edinburg 113
North Border 110
Larimore High School 109
TGU Titans 88
New Rockford-Sheyenne High School 88
Dakota Prairie High School 78
North Star 75
Benson County 74
Rolla High School 65
Griggs County Central High School 62
Warwick High School 60
Westhope/Newburg 60
Rolette/Wolford Comets 58
Drake/Anamoose Raiders 58
Lakota High School 57
Midkota 49

Region 3B (2.7:1)
Bowman County High School 130
Garrison High School 119
Beach High School 115
Hettinger/Scranton 114
Wilton-Wing 97
Washburn High School 89
New Salem-Almont High School 88
Richardton-Taylor High School 82
Glen Ullin/Hebron 77
Turtle Lake-Mercer/McClusky 72
New England High School 70
Flasher 66
Mott-Regent HS 59
Grant County HS 58
Solen High School 55
Max High School 53
Underwood High School 51
Center-Stanton HS 48

Region 4B (4.5:1)
Velva High School 145
Nedrose High School 136
Tioga High School 120
South Prairie High School 111
Divide County High School 102
Mohall-Lansford-Sherwood High School 100
Surrey High School 94
Trenton High School 89
Glenburn High School 86
Ray High School 82
Kenmare High School 77
Lewis & Clark High School - Berthold 67
Parshall High School 64
Bowbells/Burke Central 62
Our Redeemer's HS 59
Mandaree High School 56
Alexander High School 53
White Shield High School 50
Powers Lake High School 49
Lewis & Clark, North Shore 36
Williston Trinity Christian High School 32