3 class system

[Flip]

MPCG - First time a Mayville based team has made it since state tournaments were in the winter.
Bowman County - Made it last year, before that? I don't have a clue.
Central McLean - I'm pretty sure they've never made it.
EKM - they've made it a few times over the last few years
Maple River - never made it, I'm not sure when Maple Valley ever made it.
Kenmare - they've definitely been there a few times the last few years.
Sargent County - I don't think they've ever made it
Our Redeemers - made once before this year in the last 10 years

[Flip]

I wonder how many years it will be before everyone is sick of seeing Kenmare, Sargent County, Mayport CG , EKM and Bowman in the State tournament every year?

I'm going to try not to clutter the state tournament thread so I put your comment here instead.

You seem to think MPCG is going to turn into the next Thompson in a 3 class system. You've mentioned them multiple times and maybe 10-15 years down the road they will be like that, but for the next five years they may be ok, but I would set the O/U on their state tournament appearances in the next 5 years at 0.5 and they're big underdogs to hit the over.

[Sorenson23]

MPCG - First time a Mayville based team has made it since state tournaments were in the winter.
Bowman County - Made it last year, before that? I don't have a clue.
Central McLean - I'm pretty sure they've never made it.
EKM - they've made it a few times over the last few years
Maple River - never made it, I'm not sure when Maple Valley ever made it.
Kenmare - they've definitely been there a few times the last few years.
Sargent County - I don't think they've ever made it
Our Redeemers - made once before this year in the last 10 years

Central McLean never has a co-op. Even by themselves it is a first for Underwood, Turtle Lake-Mercer, and McClusky. Now in boys Underwood has been there five times 1937, 1940, 1941, 1958, and 1968. Turtle Lake has done it four times 1977, 2008, 2009, and 2017 as TLMM. McClusky once in 1974, but the girls team of these communities never been to state.

Other teams state tournament appearances when their were by themselves and as a co-op.

Bowman 1992, 2001 2003, 2007, 2008, 2023
Milnor -1990, 1993, 1994, 1995, Sargent County co-op - never
Maple Valley 1981, 1991, Maple River co-op - never
Kenmare 1989, 2010, Bowbells 1980, Kenmare-Bowbells co-op - 2021, 2022, 2023
Mayville-Portland 1975, 1989, 1990, 1991, May-Port-C-G co-op -1998, 2001
Underwood never, Turtle Lake-Mercer never, McClusky - never, Central McLean co-op - never
Our Redeemer's 2017
Edgeley - 1985 1993, 1987, 1988, Marion-Montpelier -1992, Edegley-Kulm-Montpelier - 2017, 2023

Not sure if this is all the appearances or if more towns were in some of these co-ops, but this is what I have.

[WalkingStick]

MPCG - First time a Mayville based team has made it since state tournaments were in the winter.
Bowman County - Made it last year, before that? I don't have a clue.
Central McLean - I'm pretty sure they've never made it.
EKM - they've made it a few times over the last few years
Maple River - never made it, I'm not sure when Maple Valley ever made it.
Kenmare - they've definitely been there a few times the last few years.
Sargent County - I don't think they've ever made it
Our Redeemers - made once before this year in the last 10 years

MPCG (Finley-Sharon):
2001 (4th)
1998 (7th)
1991 (6th)
1990 (8th)
1989 (6th)
1975 (CHAMPS)
Finley-Sharon 1985 (CHAMPS)

Bowman (County):
2023 (7th)
2008 (2nd)
2007 (4th)
2003 (7th - 1st Winter Season)
2001 (6th - Last Fall Season)
1992 (CHAMPS)

Central McLean:
NEVER

Edgeley-Kulm-Montpelier:
2023 (5th)
2017 (7th)
Edgeley - 1993 (8th), 1985 (7th)
Montpelier w/ Marion 1992 (4th), 1988 (2nd), 1987 (8th)
Kulm - 1976 (2 losses; no 7th place game), 1974 (2 losses; no 7th place game)

Maple River (Maple Valley/Hope-Page):
MV - 1991 (4th), 1981 (2 losses; no 7th place game)
Hope - 1987 (4th), 1980 (CHAMPS), 1979 (CHAMPS)

Kenmare-Bowbells:
2023 (8th)
2022 (6th)
2021 (6th)
2011 (4th)
2010 (5th)
2009 (6th)
1989 (7th)
Bowbells - 1980 (2 losses; no 7th place game)

Sargent County (Milnor/North Sargent/Sargent Central):
Milnor - 1995 (5th), 1994 (7th), 1993 (3rd), 1990 (3rd), 1989 (4th)
Sargent Central 1978 (5th)

Our Redeemer's: 2017 (3rd)

[The Schwab]

I think the above posts do a pretty good job at showing these schools have not been powerhouses for long periods of time. I don't know if we need to start worrying about a team dominating class b girls basketball year after year.

[maddog1971]

I already had a few older relatives that just found out all the Class B games and Class A games are going on at the same time and the rotation schedule for the games. I have a feeling they will get something changed for next year. What a mess for older generations that love this tournament to deal with.

[The Schwab]

I already had a few older relatives that just found out all the Class B games and Class A games are going on at the same time and the rotation schedule for the games. I have a feeling they will get something changed for next year. What a mess for older generations that love this tournament to deal with.

All games are televised on WDAY or WDAY 2. I suppose if they want to watch all of the games they can record them?

[WalkingStick]

I already had a few older relatives that just found out all the Class B games and Class A games are going on at the same time and the rotation schedule for the games. I have a feeling they will get something changed for next year. What a mess for older generations that love this tournament to deal with.

All games are televised on WDAY or WDAY 2. I suppose if they want to watch all of the games they can record them?

If you team loses and you want to watch you'll have to subscribe to WDAY+ to watch them...it's not cheap

[bison football73]

I already had a few older relatives that just found out all the Class B games and Class A games are going on at the same time and the rotation schedule for the games. I have a feeling they will get something changed for next year. What a mess for older generations that love this tournament to deal with.

All games are televised on WDAY or WDAY 2. I suppose if they want to watch all of the games they can record them?

If you team loses and you want to watch you'll have to subscribe to WDAY+ to watch them...it's not cheap

This is how it’s been for around 5 years maybe longer.

[classB4ever]

So, have been a proponent of the 3-class system for a very long time. Wish it would have happened about 15 years ago, but that's water under the bridge. After sitting back and watching the first year, there have been both pros and cons:

1. Having watched many A and B games, the crowds have definitely been larger. Especially at highly anticipated matchups. Overall, it seems parity is much better from top to bottom in each class.
2. Scheduling was not the big problem that many claimed it would be. Cross scheduling between classes allowed for that in B and A, while numerous AA teams scheduled out of state games with like competition.
3. District tournaments in B were definitely a success. Packed gyms on championship day/night was fun to see.
4. "Play in" day on the girl's side seemed like exciting and well attended events.
5. Have to believe the regional tourneys and play in day will be huge successes on boy's side as well.
6. Although I agree with many that some of the schools in A belong in AA, it is apparent that there is more parity with those schools and the rest of the A division than there would have been if they remained in AA.
7. As has been mentioned in other threads, I hope they learn and finetune the broadcasting of these tourneys.
8. Hope that we will be able to see gate receipts for all of the tournaments. Was very opposed to the B and A tourneys (girls/girls, boys/boys) playing on the same day in 2 different cities. Perhaps the receipts will show if this was successful or not.
9. Although I know some people are still bitter about the change and perhaps how it happened, partisan politics is one of the phrases often used, still firmly believe that participation rates will go up. The girl's side is the one I've been watching the most on this, as girl's basketball has been in decline ever since it was moved to the winter. I have to admit, the level of girl's talent at the state tournaments has floored me. Some very good teams and individuals at both tournaments. Not to mention a lot of very young talent. I hope this is a springboard for younger kids watching and helps the participation numbers in the near future.
10. Although there have been many positive things and many schools have benefitted, there are also schools who are caught on the opposite side of the fence. I hope the opt up and opt down issues can address this before it's too late for those programs. 2 cents

[WalkingStick]

Gate receipts are always available in the year-end yearbooks posted on NDHSAA...they post them all (just in the summer so you do have to wait awhile); just scroll to the sport you want and check out the income and expenses for each tournament

[UncleRico]

9. Although I know some people are still bitter about the change and perhaps how it happened, partisan politics is one of the phrases often used, still firmly believe that participation rates will go up. The girl's side is the one I've been watching the most on this, as girl's basketball has been in decline ever since it was moved to the winter. I have to admit, the level of girl's talent at the state tournaments has floored me. Some very good teams and individuals at both tournaments. Not to mention a lot of very young talent. I hope this is a springboard for younger kids watching and helps the participation numbers in the near future.

I agree with much of what you said, but I personally don't believe participation numbers will improve due to several factors, not the least of which you touched on. Many of these talented girls are of the physical stature and skill level in 8th/9th grade to jump kids that are 2-3 years older than them on the depth chart, and to put it bluntly that doesn't sit real well with the kids being jumped. Anyone who watched this weekend, particularly the A, had to notice how prominent the freshmen and sophomores were. Without giving it much thought, I'm guessing an all-tourney team of the best freshmen/sophomores would beat an all-tourney team of juniors/seniors? It might not be that close?

[classB4ever]

9. Although I know some people are still bitter about the change and perhaps how it happened, partisan politics is one of the phrases often used, still firmly believe that participation rates will go up. The girl's side is the one I've been watching the most on this, as girl's basketball has been in decline ever since it was moved to the winter. I have to admit, the level of girl's talent at the state tournaments has floored me. Some very good teams and individuals at both tournaments. Not to mention a lot of very young talent. I hope this is a springboard for younger kids watching and helps the participation numbers in the near future.

I agree with much of what you said, but I personally don't believe participation numbers will improve due to several factors, not the least of which you touched on. Many of these talented girls are of the physical stature and skill level in 8th/9th grade to jump kids that are 2-3 years older than them on the depth chart, and to put it bluntly that doesn't sit real well with the kids being jumped. Anyone who watched this weekend, particularly the A, had to notice how prominent the freshmen and sophomores were. Without giving it much thought, I'm guessing an all-tourney team of the best freshmen/sophomores would beat an all-tourney team of juniors/seniors? It might not be that close?

You may be correct. I am being a bit optimistic hoping it will turn around quickly. Was hoping success will breed success but that is probably too simple of thinking. The decline in participation has been going on for quite some time, for various reasons. This means the next generation of parents probably didn't participate in these sports. So, without the parents pushing and the genetics involved, it might take longer than I was hoping for or it may never happen as you state.

[RiverMiner99]

The way I see it the 3-class system has only accomplished 2 things:
1. The issues people had with a 2-class system are the same problems, but now they are someone elses problem.
2. Reduced the coverage/hype/talk (whatever you want to call it) of what used to be referred to as "The B"

The stated objectives of the 3-class system were not and likely will not be accomplished. But we all knew that. Maybe there were fewer blow outs??? I don't know, I saw a lot of lopsided scores still happening. Was the point differentials more or less, I don't know. Maybe someone has the numbers. The other objective and I don't have the numbers on this either, but I don't see more girls playing now that there are 3 classes, and I don't think that will happen unless the population of ND growers and more schools open.

[classB4ever]

The way I see it the 3-class system has only accomplished 2 things:
1. The issues people had with a 2-class system are the same problems, but now they are someone elses problem.
2. Reduced the coverage/hype/talk (whatever you want to call it) of what used to be referred to as "The B"

Well in all fairness, I think we should at least have all the tournaments first before stating it reduced the coverage/hype/talk.

[bk1990]

The way I see it the 3-class system has only accomplished 2 things:
1. The issues people had with a 2-class system are the same problems, but now they are someone elses problem.
2. Reduced the coverage/hype/talk (whatever you want to call it) of what used to be referred to as "The B"

Well in all fairness, I think we should at least have all the tournaments first before stating it reduced the coverage/hype/talk.

My take with the dual tourney's going on at the same time has to do with TV coverage. Maybe the contract with WDAY needs to be re-negotiated. The appeal for the old B teams, which is now the A and B, is if you made it to state and won on the first day, you would get to play on TV for three days. I didn't get to watch much of the games this year, but if I am correct, because of the alternating coverage of A and B on the first two days, was Bowman County girls only on TV for the second half of the 3rd place game? The A championship was at 5:00, B third place at 6:00, so not possible to show the whole game, just felt this is unfair, rather than 3 games on TV for those girls, only got 1 half of coverage.
My opinion is one channel is not equipped to handle all the tournaments the way they are set up now. The B tourney did not even have a sideline reporter interviewing the players and coaches, they just put a headset on them and the commentators asked the questions.
Maybe need to let another station, either NBC or CBS have one class, WDAY the other one, that way don't need 7th place games at 9:30 in the morning, that is ridiculous, this isn't YMCA league.
If you can change the class system, you should be able to change who gets to show them.

[vikingman]

I was wishing for the 3-class system for years, but I would have been dead set against it had I known that it meant Beighley wouldn't be calling the North Star games on radio.

[UNDSiouxfan]

For the most part, I think the 1st season of a 3 class system was a success.

One thing to be fixed:
* Consolation brackets are meant to be the early games. It's absolutely ridiculous to have the consolation games in the evening, they are meant for the winning teams and the semis should all be televised if possible. Stagger them a bit and we'll pick what we want to watch.

As for anyone who's still upset about a 3 class system and for the "big school" of DL winning it, I'd much rather see Kindred having the great year like they did by going undefeated and losing to an outstanding DL team in a great championship game, than to see Kindred winning most of the state tourney games by 30 which would've been a likely scenario in the old Class B.

There were many examples of very good teams with near .500 records. (Central Cass, Wahpeton, Thompson, Bottineau, Valley City - just to name a few. The parity of this middle division is what makes it special, and you have the option to play AA teams or B teams when you schedule. I wouild've loved to see Kindred schedule a couple of games with AA teams like DL did, I truly think both teams would have competed with anyone in AA this year.

In the old B, it would've finished Kindred, 4 Winds, Grafton, Shiloh. Just like every year and you wouldn't have got to see the Westhope Newburg storyline, which was right out of the Hoosiers movie. This is what ND class B basketball is all about. Would North Star have made the B if 4 Winds was in the tournament? Not sure if they would've beat 4 Winds, but in the new system the championship in the B this year gave us a must-see and very entertaining game. I really thought North Star was going to win it, but WN had the best overall player in Braaten and the PG Braden Bailey was simply outstanding. Braaten and Hagler were the two best players in B this year, and it was great to see these two talents in the final.

For fans of small town class B basketball, we got to see a lot of talented kids that in previous years we just don't get the chance to see anymore. We appreciate the opportunity to watch these athletes and Class B is definitely back, and having the middle Class is also a huge success for ND.

[maddog1971]

The 3 Class system worked but the tournaments need to change so people can watch the games.
Yes if was the old Class B it would have been a really good tournament with high-end Teams playing really good basketball. BUT it would be Kindred, Grafton, Fourwinds battling it out for the title again.

Great story line of the little guy doing good on a big stage. But that final game was just a fist fight with some 3 pointers thrown in. Not good basketball.