Feelings on Parochial schools?

The Buzz on Class B.
Forum rules
Please do not post just to complain about players, coaches, teams, officials, fans, or anyone else. Lets all try to demonstrate the spirit of good sportsmanship. Posts may be edited or deleted that do not comply.

Re: Feelings on Parochial schools?

Postby OldSchoolBaller » Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:42 pm

tmd33643 wrote:
spins wrote:When kids are not good enough to get significant playing time at a class A high school, they often times end up at a class B private school. Hey...they're good athletes and want to play...I don't blame them or the parents. This gives private schools a huge advantage over the typical small town class B school.


In Shiloh's history, only a handful of students have moved from a class A school to Shiloh because they were not getting enough playing time at the class A school. The few times this has happened, the player who moved was not good enough to get much playing time at Shiloh either. So really, Shiloh gets NO players to help the varsity from class A schools. I can't speak up for the other parochial schools but I know this doesn't happen at Shiloh.

I'm not saying Shiloh doesn't have an advantage over other class b schools. They certainly do as they do have other gyms like the YMCA to go to. There are also plenty of different basketball camps and leagues to participate in or even just playing pick-up games with other kids at the YMCA for that matter. Also, while Shiloh doesn't get students moving in from class A schools, they do get students moving from small class b towns to Bismarck who want to stay class b. I think its quite obvious that private schools have an advantage over class b towns. My point was really just that Shiloh and I suspect most other parochial schools do not get students from class A schools transferring over since they didn't get enough playing time at the class A school.


The reason that the Parochial schools have an advantage is not because of the very few cases that they have had kids come from a small town, or transfers. It starts way before, in elementary school.

For instance, I grew up in a small school, and my classmates and I had a passion for basketball. There were 5 of us that wanted to play Traveling Team basketball where we would go around the state and play basketball against other kids that had this passion. Now you are probably thinking, "Well that is pretty risky to not have a bench", well we thought the same so we gathered a few kids from neighboring communities and practiced a couple times a week from March until school was out.

As a team we grew a great deal of chemistry with each other, and us small town kids could compete with a lot of these teams from the big towns, but alas when the season was over we would go back to our respective school teams and play against each other for the school ball season. When this happened we did not have a bench to compete with the stocked teams from the bigger schools.

Now imagine if one could keep that team together without having to travel 45 minutes to get to school, or having to move to a new town. I introduce you to Parochial Schools.
“It’s not the will to win that matters – everyone has that. It’s the will to prepare to win that matters.” - Paul "Bear" Bryant
OldSchoolBaller
NDPreps Reserve
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:06 pm

Re: Feelings on Parochial schools?

Postby spins » Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:49 pm

ask yourself this question. if there was no basketball (or any sports) programs in these schools, would these kids still be going there?

I didn't think so.

To me that makes them sport schools.
spins
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 2:54 pm

Re: Feelings on Parochial schools?

Postby tmd33643 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:13 pm

spins wrote:ask yourself this question. if there was no basketball (or any sports) programs in these schools, would these kids still be going there?

I didn't think so


Stupid question. You could ask that same thing about any school, public or private. Most students wouldn't go to any school that didn't have sports.
tmd33643
NDPreps Reserve
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:59 pm

Re: Feelings on Parochial schools?

Postby spins » Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:24 pm

tmd33643 wrote:
spins wrote:ask yourself this question. if there was no basketball (or any sports) programs in these schools, would these kids still be going there?

I didn't think so


Stupid question. You could ask that same thing about any school, public or private. Most students wouldn't go to any school that didn't have sports.

Packerfan, I would imagine very few schools get students from Africa. However, any school could do that if they wanted to. One small class b town I use to play against when I was playing did have a player from Europe who was very good so while the player might not be from Africa, it does happen from time to time.



Its not a stupid question at ALL. These kids are mostly from bigger ND cites and they all have options. The POINT of a parochial school is the religious teachings along with a great education. This is why they exist. Do you think that kids that want a christian lifestyle in school just happen to be better than average athletes?

What do you think would happen if they stopped teaching religion? Do you think the basketball team would disband and move to other schools?

Also, MOST small class B school kids dont have a choice where they go to school.
spins
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 2:54 pm

Re: Feelings on Parochial schools?

Postby Flip » Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:12 am

Run4Fun2009 wrote:
The Schwab wrote:https://bismarcktribune.com/sports/high-school/ogbu-settling-in-at-shiloh/article_dad54392-c1a6-54a4-b6b9-ad1a463ba428.html

I'm sorry that this topic has been hijacked but I'm just going to leave this here. This COULD NEVER HAPPEN at a public class B high school. I'm sure the fact that he was 6'5" and extremely athletic had zero to do with him being helped by "Friends of Shiloh".


I can only speak to the private school that I am connected with...so I cannot speak to the other parochial schools. This topic got hijacked so long ago...just trying to clear a few things up. I enjoy those who message me to ask questions they'd like to know. I enjoy building some knowledge up on this subject...I know I can't change anyone's mind on it but 'Knowledge is Power'...even if just a little.

Outside of magic man I think everyone agrees private schools have advantages. Magic man will probably admit they have their advantages too, but he'll be the first to tell you they are offset by free and reduced meals. Biggest advantages for private schools IMO.
1. the schools are in metro areas so many kids have access to the school
2. good to great family dynamics for the students
3. student's families have money
4. many coaching canidates
Flip
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 3764
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:35 am

Re: Feelings on Parochial schools?

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:19 am

Flip wrote:
Run4Fun2009 wrote:
The Schwab wrote:https://bismarcktribune.com/sports/high-school/ogbu-settling-in-at-shiloh/article_dad54392-c1a6-54a4-b6b9-ad1a463ba428.html

I'm sorry that this topic has been hijacked but I'm just going to leave this here. This COULD NEVER HAPPEN at a public class B high school. I'm sure the fact that he was 6'5" and extremely athletic had zero to do with him being helped by "Friends of Shiloh".


I can only speak to the private school that I am connected with...so I cannot speak to the other parochial schools. This topic got hijacked so long ago...just trying to clear a few things up. I enjoy those who message me to ask questions they'd like to know. I enjoy building some knowledge up on this subject...I know I can't change anyone's mind on it but 'Knowledge is Power'...even if just a little.

Outside of magic man I think everyone agrees private schools have advantages. Magic man will probably admit they have their advantages too, but he'll be the first to tell you they are offset by free and reduced meals. Biggest advantages for private schools IMO.
1. the schools are in metro areas so many kids have access to the school
2. good to great family dynamics for the students
3. student's families have money
4. many coaching candidates


He knows the advantages but there are disadvantages too...just less of them. He's hitting a few of them for the FB aspect/argument. Just to note: not every family has $$ but don't read that as they are 'there for free' cause that's not the truth either...
Email ND HS Scores to: ndhsscores at yahoo
Follow ND HS Scores (NDScores) on Twitter
Find Scores/Schedules/Standings: http://www.northdakota-scores.net
THANKS!
User avatar
Run4Fun2009
NDPreps The King
 
Posts: 14388
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:06 pm
Location: Fargo

Re: Feelings on Parochial schools?

Postby The Schwab » Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:40 am

Run4Fun2009 wrote:
Flip wrote:
Run4Fun2009 wrote:
The Schwab wrote:https://bismarcktribune.com/sports/high-school/ogbu-settling-in-at-shiloh/article_dad54392-c1a6-54a4-b6b9-ad1a463ba428.html

I'm sorry that this topic has been hijacked but I'm just going to leave this here. This COULD NEVER HAPPEN at a public class B high school. I'm sure the fact that he was 6'5" and extremely athletic had zero to do with him being helped by "Friends of Shiloh".


I can only speak to the private school that I am connected with...so I cannot speak to the other parochial schools. This topic got hijacked so long ago...just trying to clear a few things up. I enjoy those who message me to ask questions they'd like to know. I enjoy building some knowledge up on this subject...I know I can't change anyone's mind on it but 'Knowledge is Power'...even if just a little.

Outside of magic man I think everyone agrees private schools have advantages. Magic man will probably admit they have their advantages too, but he'll be the first to tell you they are offset by free and reduced meals. Biggest advantages for private schools IMO.
1. the schools are in metro areas so many kids have access to the school
2. good to great family dynamics for the students
3. student's families have money
4. many coaching candidates


He knows the advantages but there are disadvantages too...just less of them. He's hitting a few of them for the FB aspect/argument. Just to note: not every family has $$ but don't read that as they are 'there for free' cause that's not the truth either...


As someone who's not associated with parochial schools I would be interested to know the disadvantage. I know most people who aren't associated with them only look at the advantages they have, but I'm sure there are two sides to every situation.
The Schwab
User avatar
The Schwab
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 3608
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:38 am
Location: The Peace Garden State

Re: Feelings on Parochial schools?

Postby balla45 » Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:06 pm

A few disadvantages.

Some people will not spend additional money for their kids to go to private school.

Some solid athletes leave private schools to go to public schools. Obviously it can go both ways, but I imagine this would be a disadvantage.

If I am a good female athlete in Bismarck right now, I can transfer to Bismarck Century. I know I win a minimum of 2 titles before I graduate.

I know Shiloh has lost a handful of athletes who were not game changers at the Class A level that would have been game changers for them.

Do not have an opinion either way, just stating some disadvantages.
~I have no patience for anyone who doubts me, none at all. My entire goal is to make them feel ashamed for writing me off.

Jordan Maurer
North Dakota Phenom - President
jordan.maurer@northdakotaphenom.com

If you do not like how I operate, play for someone else. I do not need to beg.

~It does not take talent to hustle!
User avatar
balla45
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 4075
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:46 pm
Location: Bismarck, North Dakota USA

Re: Feelings on Parochial schools?

Postby leroybla » Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:24 pm

Why not limit private schools to the public district where their school is located? That would be a small step towards equity.
leroybla
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 179
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:47 pm

Re: Feelings on Parochial schools?

Postby Flip » Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:57 pm

leroybla wrote:Why not limit private schools to the public district where their school is located? That would be a small step towards equity.

and who would do that, NDHSAA? I doubt that's legal. It would be like telling a business you can only accept customers from a certain area.
Flip
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 3764
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:35 am

Re: Feelings on Parochial schools?

Postby The Schwab » Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:47 am

balla45 wrote:A few disadvantages.

Some people will not spend additional money for their kids to go to private school.

Some solid athletes leave private schools to go to public schools. Obviously it can go both ways, but I imagine this would be a disadvantage.

If I am a good female athlete in Bismarck right now, I can transfer to Bismarck Century. I know I win a minimum of 2 titles before I graduate.

I know Shiloh has lost a handful of athletes who were not game changers at the Class A level that would have been game changers for them.

Do not have an opinion either way, just stating some disadvantages.


I understand your line of thinking. My question would be this: How many times has an athlete that would have been a difference maker for a private school transferred to a class B public school? I am not going to begin to say that public class A schools don't have some advantages over smaller private schools, the funding alone is a huge advantage.
The Schwab
User avatar
The Schwab
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 3608
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:38 am
Location: The Peace Garden State

Re: Feelings on Parochial schools?

Postby leroybla » Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:00 pm

Flip wrote:
leroybla wrote:Why not limit private schools to the public district where their school is located? That would be a small step towards equity.

and who would do that, NDHSAA? I doubt that's legal. It would be like telling a business you can only accept customers from a certain area.


Shanley, for example would be limited to the Davies district. Oak Grove would be limited to the Fargo North district, etc.
leroybla
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 179
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:47 pm

Re: Feelings on Parochial schools?

Postby Flip » Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:04 pm

leroybla wrote:Shanley, for example would be limited to the Davies district. Oak Grove would be limited to the Fargo North district, etc.

I understand what you're saying. I'm saying no one has the authority to prevent Shanley, OG, etc. from accepting students outside of a district.
Flip
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 3764
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:35 am

Re: Feelings on Parochial schools?

Postby balla45 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:19 pm

The Schwab wrote:
balla45 wrote:A few disadvantages.

Some people will not spend additional money for their kids to go to private school.

Some solid athletes leave private schools to go to public schools. Obviously it can go both ways, but I imagine this would be a disadvantage.

If I am a good female athlete in Bismarck right now, I can transfer to Bismarck Century. I know I win a minimum of 2 titles before I graduate.

I know Shiloh has lost a handful of athletes who were not game changers at the Class A level that would have been game changers for them.

Do not have an opinion either way, just stating some disadvantages.


I understand your line of thinking. My question would be this: How many times has an athlete that would have been a difference maker for a private school transferred to a class B public school? I am not going to begin to say that public class A schools don't have some advantages over smaller private schools, the funding alone is a huge advantage.


I have no idea how common it is. I was thinking of Shiloh specifically just because I live here. There are usually a few kids who are on the Shiloh traveling team that end up at a different school like a BHS or a CHS. Obviously Shiloh is in a great situation to be able to have traveling teams, but they do lose kids.

Not the same thing but an SM kid ended up at CHS and was a rotation guy on their basketball team as a junior and is apparently good at baseball and football.

I think Beulah got a transfer in this year, but from another Class B school.
~I have no patience for anyone who doubts me, none at all. My entire goal is to make them feel ashamed for writing me off.

Jordan Maurer
North Dakota Phenom - President
jordan.maurer@northdakotaphenom.com

If you do not like how I operate, play for someone else. I do not need to beg.

~It does not take talent to hustle!
User avatar
balla45
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 4075
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:46 pm
Location: Bismarck, North Dakota USA

Re: Feelings on Parochial schools?

Postby magic man » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:16 pm

Thank you Run.. that's exactly how I feel.

Someone asked about kids leaving private schools to go to a public school and what comes immediately to my mind would be those twins (Hartness I think is their last name) that were in the Shanley school system and then transferred to Davies and led them to a state title.

I'm sure it happens on both sides.

Fringe players at the public school level can be game changers for smaller schools whether private or public.

Run4Fun2009 wrote:
Flip wrote:
Run4Fun2009 wrote:
The Schwab wrote:https://bismarcktribune.com/sports/high-school/ogbu-settling-in-at-shiloh/article_dad54392-c1a6-54a4-b6b9-ad1a463ba428.html

I'm sorry that this topic has been hijacked but I'm just going to leave this here. This COULD NEVER HAPPEN at a public class B high school. I'm sure the fact that he was 6'5" and extremely athletic had zero to do with him being helped by "Friends of Shiloh".


I can only speak to the private school that I am connected with...so I cannot speak to the other parochial schools. This topic got hijacked so long ago...just trying to clear a few things up. I enjoy those who message me to ask questions they'd like to know. I enjoy building some knowledge up on this subject...I know I can't change anyone's mind on it but 'Knowledge is Power'...even if just a little.

Outside of magic man I think everyone agrees private schools have advantages. Magic man will probably admit they have their advantages too, but he'll be the first to tell you they are offset by free and reduced meals. Biggest advantages for private schools IMO.
1. the schools are in metro areas so many kids have access to the school
2. good to great family dynamics for the students
3. student's families have money
4. many coaching candidates


He knows the advantages but there are disadvantages too...just less of them. He's hitting a few of them for the FB aspect/argument. Just to note: not every family has $$ but don't read that as they are 'there for free' cause that's not the truth either...
magic man
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 119
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:02 am

Re: Feelings on Parochial schools?

Postby maddog1971 » Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:42 pm

I wish that Private School people would admit to it. I know quite a few kids going to Shanley and Oak Grove..... They were not raised in the private school but transferred in later in life. Once they started to show sports development. Kids show up and play....
Don't tell me it is just all coaching that these teams are at the top of the State every year in Boys Basketball.
Just admit that some kids get special help to attend their school and if they were not a really good basketball player that they would not get that chance.
maddog1971
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 121
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:56 am

Re: Feelings on Parochial schools?

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:35 pm

maddog1971 wrote:I wish that Private School people would admit to it. I know quite a few kids going to Shanley and Oak Grove..... They were not raised in the private school but transferred in later in life. Once they started to show sports development. Kids show up and play....
Don't tell me it is just all coaching that these teams are at the top of the State every year in Boys Basketball.
Just admit that some kids get special help to attend their school and if they were not a really good basketball player that they would not get that chance.


There are no full-ride scholarships given; you can write an essay to earn a $500 scholarship for the school year but that is a far cry from the $8,500 tuition (Oak Grove...Shanley's tuition is similar...however, I cannot speak to their scholarship process).

Yes, a family can fill up a FAFSA form for Financial Aid to help in attending any parochial school...but it is not a free ride.

No, you don't have to be a 'good basketball player' to get into the school. I know of many students at the schools that aren't there because they can play sports, love music, etc.; they are there to get out of the public school system and get away from bullying and other things. There are far more students there for those reasons other then for sports but no one cares about that here.

I don't think I've ever hidden the fact that, yes, parochial schools are in the bigger cities and can gain the advantage with transfers; I just don't speak up often on the subject because no matter what I say from my perspective...it doesn't matter. A parochial school is not going to turn a kid away that wants to be at the school; if the family can find a way to pay the tuition it can be done.
Email ND HS Scores to: ndhsscores at yahoo
Follow ND HS Scores (NDScores) on Twitter
Find Scores/Schedules/Standings: http://www.northdakota-scores.net
THANKS!
User avatar
Run4Fun2009
NDPreps The King
 
Posts: 14388
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:06 pm
Location: Fargo

Re: Feelings on Parochial schools?

Postby maddog1971 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:21 am

So you are saying that every kid that goes to a private school needs to write a check for 8K or above no matter what? Yes financial aid is available to those who can not afford it. To everyone? Is this a loan that the parents have to pay back? So any kid that wants to go to school at a private school can get financial aid if they are poor enough? What if they can not afford to pay the loan back?

By the way born and raised in public schools and very proud of it. I learned how the real world works and how to handle problems. It did not matter how big my dad's checking account was. I handled my business.

I have no problem with people sending the kids to private schools.... good for you and them.
maddog1971
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 121
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:56 am

Re: Feelings on Parochial schools?

Postby magic man » Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:23 am

maddog1971 wrote:So you are saying that every kid that goes to a private school needs to write a check for 8K or above no matter what? Yes financial aid is available to those who can not afford it. To everyone? Is this a loan that the parents have to pay back? So any kid that wants to go to school at a private school can get financial aid if they are poor enough? What if they can not afford to pay the loan back?

By the way born and raised in public schools and very proud of it. I learned how the real world works and how to handle problems. It did not matter how big my dad's checking account was. I handled my business.

I have no problem with people sending the kids to private schools.... good for you and them.

I was going to respond to this, but it's clear that you have some kind of angst towards private schools by some of your comments and implications bolded above.
magic man
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 119
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:02 am

Re: Feelings on Parochial schools?

Postby maddog1971 » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:09 am

Magic man...No problem with anybody except for the fact the Parochial Schools are always saying poor them and that they have a disadvantage instead of an advantage.
If God gave me 40 inch vertical I would say that I am blessed.
All I am saying is we all know that really good athletes get more attention Financially then a kid who is 450lbs and just likes to read books and not act or play and instrument. And you send your kids there because you think it is better then private school.
It is America.... God Bless you for doing it.
maddog1971
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 121
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:56 am

Re: Feelings on Parochial schools?

Postby Flip » Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:29 pm

magic man wrote:Also, if small towns have more than 2 co-op schools, then they should go up as well.

What sense does that make? With any co-op travel time increases, playing time decreases, and fringe kids quit.

There aren't any, as you all say, "well off, rich folk" in those small towns that can send their kids to camps? Farm Money? Sugar Beet money? Oil field? No?

If money were equal between public and private schools you wouldn't complain every chance you get about free and reduced meals.

99% of people agree that private schools have an advantage. To what extent is debatable. magic man is the one percenter.
Flip
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 3764
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:35 am

Previous

Return to Basketball - Class B

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests