Potential 2000 Point Scorers

[Xfactor]

I'm saying he has a college body and right now Hagler doesn't, which is why I is the reason Hagler can't play D1 basketball as of right now. I was strictly talking about college basketball not high school. As far as this year, they vote before Class A state tourney. Jacobson won a championship because he played well and so did his teammates. Hagler's played well in the game they lost, but some of his teammates didn't. As far as numbers, the two were pretty similar, but AJ plays more minutes. And as far as competition, I know class A is better competition, but North Star played a tougher schedule than any other class B team. I understand anyone would pick AJ, I'm just saying I would have picked Hagler and I think saying AJ with little to no argument is a bit absurd.

[Xfactor]

And unlike some people last year, I'm not trying to say that Jacobson isn't deserving because he obviously is. I'm just saying I thought he was the second best candidate. Just my opinion, and I think a lot of class B people and people who have played against or watched Hagler would agree. But congratulations to Jacobson, he had a great year and career.

[Footballa10]

Aj averaged 26.4 points throughout the whole season and had a double double every single game except for one where he came up one rebound short. People say the WDA is much better at defense but that didn't matter for Aj, in the three meetings against the west Aj scored 31, 27, and 27. Aj did this against double and triple teams and still shot 55% from the field. Xfactor, you also said that hagler makes guys look great but so does aj, he had one triple double this year and averaged 5 assists a game. You cannot argue against these stats. Aj deserved mr basketball and thats why he basically got twice as many votes as Hagler.

[Flip]

Just curious, what were Hagler's stats for this season? Feel free to give his career stats too if you have them.

[Flip]

Langstaff won because voters looked at his scoring numbers and because Werner wasn't one of the stronger class A candidates the past few years. I think Langstaff deserved Mr. Basketball, I'm just saying voters probably didn't see him play, they just looked at the stat line.

I'm surprised you said that considering you also said this last year.

I have to say that Langstaff is by far the most overrated player in the state.

[ndbb2323]

Can we just all agree that trying to compare what players would do in the other class is pointless since there's no way of knowing? Give it a rest, both sides. There's going to be arguments every year regardless of how clear cut it is to most people. Both classes have had great players not win the award. It's always going to happen when there's only one award for the whole state.

[Xfactor]

Langstaff won because voters looked at his scoring numbers and because Werner wasn't one of the stronger class A candidates the past few years. I think Langstaff deserved Mr. Basketball, I'm just saying voters probably didn't see him play, they just looked at the stat line.

I'm surprised you said that considering you also said this last year.

I have to say that Langstaff is by far the most overrated player in the state.

I did support Werner for Mr. Basketball throughout all of last year, until seeing both players play at the end of the season. I thought Langstaff was very good, but due to what some people who posted on this site said and all of the hype surrounding his astounding ppg, I still believed he was very overrated. Not because he wasn't a Mr. Basketball worthy player, but because some people thought he was the greatest North Dakota player of all time, when personally I don't think he's the same caliber as Jacobson or Hagler. I do have to say he impressed a lot of people in his first year at Lake Region though.

[Xfactor]

Footballa10, as I stated before, I think AJ was very deserving of the award, that doesn't mean I think he's the one who should've won. I also already said why I think he got twice as many votes, because of the media coverage and the fact that half of the voters probably haven't seen Hagler play, especially not this year. Also, from watching the state tournament I was not very impressed with the defense played. Regardless I still think AJ had a heck of a state tournament.

Flip, sorry I don't have Hagler's numbers from this season or career. I know he was near or at the top of points, assists, steals, FG%, and 3pt%, and averaged over 7 rebounds a game which is impressive for a point guard. I know he finished somewhere around 2,350 career points, but that's just an estimate. That's about all I could tell you but if I find someone who has the stats I will post them on here.

[balla45]

I'm not trying to be rude about this or anything, as I was very unhappy when my guy (Joe) didn't win, so I can imagine how much this would bother you. I just personally think that AJ is on that Hanstad level and Hagler is more so on a level with those other guys.

I literally had a Division 1 coach say that one of the other candidates, not AJ either, was a better player than Hagler. I think Hagler is an incredibly talented player, but AJ just broke the Class A scoring record, and he doesn't even take the most shots on his team.

Also, I coached against Hagler, Kroeplin, Mertens, Grande, Smith, etc., multiple times when they were in eighth grade on the same team. Kroeplin was always the guy that killed us. I am not sold on Hagler being better than Erron Collins, Nate Mertens, or Mac Kroeplin. Again, I am NOT, bashing Hagler at all, as I think he is an incredibly talented player, I just struggle to believe that he is on a different level than some of these other guys.

AJ has a better basketball body than almost anyone in North Dakota, and he uses it perfectly. Gets his shot when he wants to. Makes great decisions with the ball. Splits defenders at the rim better than anyone I've seen in North Dakota. He is on that same level as Hanstad. Pure scorer. Dominates the high school game in more ways. And I am the biggest Joe Hanstad fan you will ever meet.

[wolves65]

I am a B guy but watch class A ball when I get the chance. On equal terms Hagler and AJ are not in the same class. You can't use total points as a measuring stick because some kids start in 7-8th grade on class B schools and pile up a bunch of points. You put any B kid in a Class A school they wouldn't start until maybe junior season. Example, Hagler goes to Red River he splits time at best with Kroeplin and Arvidson last season and starts this season. He more than likely doesn't even get to 1000 points. Not a Shanley fan but this was an easy pick IMO! Watch the Minnesota tournament this weekend and see how wide the talent gap is between Minnesota and ND.

[MoSiouxFan]

balla45 I really respect your opinion and I normally agree with you, but I disagree on this topic. Hagler wouldn't have played on a good class A team his 8th grade year, but would've on some teams that weren't as good. Jacobson might have too if he wasn't at a good class A school. And Kroeplin was not as good as Hagler their 8th grade year they played on the same AAU team just ask people who watched them.

As far as close games, I know Shanley had a lot of games that weren't close this year, but still a lot of them weren't blowouts. I'm sure Jacobson averaged more minutes than Hagler.

Jacobson should not be in the same consideration of Hanstad, Boschee, etc. He is not the same caliber as those guys who had the capability to step into a D1 program and make a difference right away. Hagler is also better than any of the players you said he was in the same group as. Hagler or Jacobson would've won Mr. Basketball any of the past years since Dufault.

Jacobson is going D1 over Hagler simply because he is 6'6 and Hagler is about 6'1 or 6'2. If Hagler chooses to go to a Juco for a couple years and gets stronger then I believe he could play at NDSU as well. Mr. Basketball isn't judged upon where you're going to college. Hagler's skill set just as good. The only thing Jacobson has him in is rebounding, but Hagler is a very good rebounder for a point guard.

Basically, both are great players, but I think Hagler was overlooked because there's no media coverage in his area compared to Jacobson playing in Fargo. Anyone from the area knows Hagler is much better than Nate Mertens, who is also a great player and worthy finalist, but he finished in a close 3rd because they look at his numbers.

Not sure about your statement that .."Hagler is much better than Nate Mertens." Based on EDC stats as of March 1, Mertens was not only the leading scorer in the EDC (27.9 ppg), but was also 4th in assists per game, the 7th leading rebounder despite being only 6'2', and 5th in steals per game, all of which tells me that he plays both ends of the floor and is a complete player (not saying that Hagler isn't). Also, it's to be noted that his scoring average was achieved without the benefit of playing against Devils Lake's defense, which had the second worst per game average in the EDC. You mentioned that Hagler had 4 other players on the floor who could score. Mertens didn't have that luxury so the opposing class A teams always keyed on him and he still had the top scoring ave. in class A (through Mar. 1). Plus, as some others have alluded, on a night-to-night basis, the defenses that Mertens faced in class A were better than the defenses that Hagler faced.

Nothing at all against Hagler, just saying it's a bit of a stretch to say that he's much better than Mertens.

[balla45]

balla45 I really respect your opinion and I normally agree with you, but I disagree on this topic. Hagler wouldn't have played on a good class A team his 8th grade year, but would've on some teams that weren't as good. Jacobson might have too if he wasn't at a good class A school. And Kroeplin was not as good as Hagler their 8th grade year they played on the same AAU team just ask people who watched them.

As far as close games, I know Shanley had a lot of games that weren't close this year, but still a lot of them weren't blowouts. I'm sure Jacobson averaged more minutes than Hagler.

Jacobson should not be in the same consideration of Hanstad, Boschee, etc. He is not the same caliber as those guys who had the capability to step into a D1 program and make a difference right away. Hagler is also better than any of the players you said he was in the same group as. Hagler or Jacobson would've won Mr. Basketball any of the past years since Dufault.

Jacobson is going D1 over Hagler simply because he is 6'6 and Hagler is about 6'1 or 6'2. If Hagler chooses to go to a Juco for a couple years and gets stronger then I believe he could play at NDSU as well. Mr. Basketball isn't judged upon where you're going to college. Hagler's skill set just as good. The only thing Jacobson has him in is rebounding, but Hagler is a very good rebounder for a point guard.

Basically, both are great players, but I think Hagler was overlooked because there's no media coverage in his area compared to Jacobson playing in Fargo. Anyone from the area knows Hagler is much better than Nate Mertens, who is also a great player and worthy finalist, but he finished in a close 3rd because they look at his numbers.

I must have simply skimmed this post.

How would Jacobson not be in the same consideration as Hanstad? He was close to, just as, or more dominant throughout his entire high school career. He wasn't as pure of a scorer and isn't as athletic, but made more plays defensively and consistently put his teammates in good situations. He basically willed his team to the win in their first round game, and he was playing against a lot of talent there as well.

I probably should not have used Boschee, but Jacobson IS in that same grouping with Joe Hanstad, Austin Dufault, etc.

What do you think Erron Collins's career and senior season numbers would look like if he was playing in Class B, for his father, in a system that is tailor made for his game? Same goes for Kroeplin and Mertens. Again, you don't simply have to go by my opinion. I have had a Division 1 coach state specifically that "Hagler was better than ******* as a sophomore, but ******* is the better player now." When he was younger, he was an absolute basketball prodigy, but in my opinion, his game did not improve as rapidly as some of the other guys and they caught up with him.

Jacobson is going D1 because he is better. If Hagler goes to a JuCo and improves his game, he very well may be a D1 player, because he improved. Right now, Jacobson is the better player. Hagler may improve enough to play D1, and I will be happy if he does, as I am a big fan, but there is a reason that Jacobson is going D1 right now.

I'm not really in to this whole "if Hagler was 6'6" and Jacobson was 6'1, Hagler would be better." I could say the same thing with Erron Collins being 6'6" instead of 5'10", Mac Kroeplin being 6'6" instead of 6'2", Nate Mertens being 6'6" instead of 6'2".

I do not think the fact that Hagler plays for North Star and Jacobson played for Shanley matters at all. Hagler is going to be a 3 time First Team All State pick, which the media votes on. He was the only unanimous selection last season as well, so it seems that the media is fond of him and aware of his talents.

Again, for the record, I am not bashing anyone here at all, as I've coached or coached against all of these athletes at some point, and have always been very impressed with their talents.

Also, a cool fact that no one really brought up. Jacobson, at some point in his life, has played on the same summer team as every other finalist.

[Xfactor]

I haven't seen Collins play so I can't talk about him. I could be wrong but I'm assuming the D1 coach was talking about Kroeplin. I could see why a D1 coach would go after Kroeplin because of his athleticism. He has a lot of upside, but right now he's not the same level as Hagler. And where a player is going to college shouldn't be a factor in choosing Mr. Basketball.

Wolves65, your comment is absolutely ridiculous. Yes, A and B are different levels, but Hagler would've started on ANY team in class A as a sophomore, junior, and senior that's not even up for debate. As a freshman, he would've started for Shanley, just as Jacobson did. Hagler started on a North Star team as a freshman that probably would've beat Shanley that year.

I've seen both Mertens and Hagler play many times and Hagler is the better player. It doesn't help Mertens that he didn't have much of a team, but he put these numbers up in mostly losing efforts, many of them not close. Hagler didn't have as much scoring around him last year and he put up 28 ppg. He still saw a lot of double teams and chasers last year and this year. Mertens is a great player, but not as good as Hagler.

I think Jacobson is in the same category as Hanstad, but he has to get quicker before he can contribute at NDSU. Hanstad was able to contribute his freshman year with Boise State. Jacobson might have more upside though.

[End90]

I haven't seen Collins play so I can't talk about him. I could be wrong but I'm assuming the D1 coach was talking about Kroeplin. I could see why a D1 coach would go after Kroeplin because of his athleticism. He has a lot of upside, but right now he's not the same level as Hagler. And where a player is going to college shouldn't be a factor in choosing Mr. Basketball.

Wolves65, your comment is absolutely ridiculous. Yes, A and B are different levels, but Hagler would've started on ANY team in class A as a sophomore, junior, and senior that's not even up for debate. As a freshman, he would've started for Shanley, just as Jacobson did. Hagler started on a North Star team as a freshman that probably would've beat Shanley that year.

I've seen both Mertens and Hagler play many times and Hagler is the better player. It doesn't help Mertens that he didn't have much of a team, but he put these numbers up in mostly losing efforts, many of them not close. Hagler didn't have as much scoring around him last year and he put up 28 ppg. He still saw a lot of double teams and chasers last year and this year. Mertens is a great player, but not as good as Hagler.

I think Jacobson is in the same category as Hanstad, but he has to get quicker before he can contribute at NDSU. Hanstad was able to contribute his freshman year with Boise State. Jacobson might have more upside though.

Xfactor, you have your opinion, but in my your opinion your wrong. Hagler is a very good player, on the level of Kroeplin and Mertens, and he has had a great career. However, to say that "Hagler would've started on any Class A team as a sophomore, junior, and senior that's not even up for debate" is wrong. Wolves65 comment was NOT "ridiculous," as you called it.

[Xfactor]

I haven't seen Collins play so I can't talk about him. I could be wrong but I'm assuming the D1 coach was talking about Kroeplin. I could see why a D1 coach would go after Kroeplin because of his athleticism. He has a lot of upside, but right now he's not the same level as Hagler. And where a player is going to college shouldn't be a factor in choosing Mr. Basketball.

Wolves65, your comment is absolutely ridiculous. Yes, A and B are different levels, but Hagler would've started on ANY team in class A as a sophomore, junior, and senior that's not even up for debate. As a freshman, he would've started for Shanley, just as Jacobson did. Hagler started on a North Star team as a freshman that probably would've beat Shanley that year.

I've seen both Mertens and Hagler play many times and Hagler is the better player. It doesn't help Mertens that he didn't have much of a team, but he put these numbers up in mostly losing efforts, many of them not close. Hagler didn't have as much scoring around him last year and he put up 28 ppg. He still saw a lot of double teams and chasers last year and this year. Mertens is a great player, but not as good as Hagler.

I think Jacobson is in the same category as Hanstad, but he has to get quicker before he can contribute at NDSU. Hanstad was able to contribute his freshman year with Boise State. Jacobson might have more upside though.

Xfactor, you have your opinion, but in my your opinion your wrong. Hagler is a very good player, on the level of Kroeplin and Mertens, and he has had a great career. However, to say that "Hagler would've started on any Class A team as a sophomore, junior, and senior that's not even up for debate" is wrong. Wolves65 comment was NOT "ridiculous," as you called it.

Hagler was first team all state in Class B as a sophomore. He also took over both the region championship and state championship games. He would've started on any class A team, there's no doubt about it.

[balla45]

Hagler would have started on every Class A team since his sophomore year. Even at Red River, Kroeplin moves to the 2 and Arvidson moves to the 3 during the 2010-2011 season.

[wolves65]

So where is he playing basketball at at the college level?

[balla45]

I've heard things, but I'll let someone else post if they have a better idea than I do.

[Xfactor]

Thank you balla45, Although I disagree with you in some aspects of this argument, I fully respect your opinion, especially since you've seen these guys play in AAU. It sounds like Hagler hasn't decided for sure where he is going, but has it pretty narrowed down. I'm guessing his college decision will come sometime in the near future.

[roison33]

I'm saying he has a college body and right now Hagler doesn't, which is why I is the reason Hagler can't play D1 basketball as of right now. I was strictly talking about college basketball not high school. As far as this year, they vote before Class A state tourney. Jacobson won a championship because he played well and so did his teammates. Hagler's played well in the game they lost, but some of his teammates didn't. As far as numbers, the two were pretty similar, but AJ plays more minutes. And as far as competition, I know class A is better competition, but North Star played a tougher schedule than any other class B team. I understand anyone would pick AJ, I'm just saying I would have picked Hagler and I think saying AJ with little to no argument is a bit absurd.

I'm curious of how many minutes they both actually played. You gotta remember Class A would have more depth and NS is a very small school and I heard they weren't very deep this year.

I respect your opinion of thinking Hagler is a better player, even though most disagree including me. You sound like you've watched a lot of basketball to make that call. But Mr. BB is about your Sr. season, and I don't think there was much argument this year of who had the better year.

I also agree Hagler probably starts on any team in the state in either class since he was a sophomore, and I agree where you play college should not matter whatsoever either.

[yadot]

Run, I have a lot of respect for all the work you do on this site, but did you really just say Jacob Hagler wouldnt have started on some class A teams this year? If so, all I can say is wow. I would think even balla45 would refute that.

[yadot]

Sorry balla45 missed your previous post.

[Xfactor]

What hurt Hagler is that statistically, at least with ppg, he probably didn't have as good of a year this year as he did last year. The problem was he had better teammates this year who had to get their shots up too. He didn't take as many shots as he should've at the beginning of the year, he also had a bad sprained ankle that sidelined him for a few games and he still wasn't 100% by the end of the year. I think if they would have made state and he put on a very good performance there then he would've had a much better chance at Mr. Basketball. However, they had a poor game and Four Winds played well to pull off the upset in the region championship, but Hagler still played very well and had 30 points that game. It just doesn't help him that most of the voters didn't get to watch him this year.

[Indy5]

What hurt Hagler is that statistically, at least with ppg, he probably didn't have as good of a year this year as he did last year. The problem was he had better teammates this year who had to get their shots up too. He didn't take as many shots as he should've at the beginning of the year, he also had a bad sprained ankle that sidelined him for a few games and he still wasn't 100% by the end of the year. I think if they would have made state and he put on a very good performance there then he would've had a much better chance at Mr. Basketball. However, they had a poor game and Four Winds played well to pull off the upset in the region championship, but Hagler still played very well and had 30 points that game. It just doesn't help him that most of the voters didn't get to watch him this year.

All I'll say about there season is from what I saw, it seems like Grande went downhill, and that was a main reason they didn't go to state.

[kramer85]

I believe the media had it right this year with Mr. Basketball. AJ had the best year of any player in the state. The thing that impressed me the most with AJ is how he matured. I have seen him play a lot, especially in the summer, and to me if I was a college coach I would have been concerned about his maturity. Many times in AAU ball if a call didn't go his way he was looking in the crowd at his mom. I didn't see that once in the state tournament. He has always had great skill set and now that maturity makes him a special player. Now I know that Mr. Basketball has to go to a senior in ND, but why? Last year without question Hagler was Mr. Basketball. The numbers, and these are estimates, averaged over 28 ppg, 7 rpg, 6 apg, shot over 87% FT line, 56% 2 pt FG%, and over 45% from the 3 pt line. North Star made it to the championship game, and they were not that good. Hagler averaged over 32 ppg against teams with a winning record. If he and Grande did not have between 50 and 60 points combined in a game against a good team, they had no chance. Plus they won 53 games in a row, which to me is the most important stat, WINNING. Hagler's numbers were down this year because they were a better team and he did not need to score 35 for them to win. He was also hurt at the end of the year. I saw him put up 30 in the championship game of the regional on one leg. Both players (Jake and AJ) are great players and if I was starting a team I wouldn't turn either away. The thing I like best about both is that they let their abilities do their talking for them. No earrings, tatoos, funny hair styles, etc. Go out, play, and win!