The War

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Postby nativegolfer » Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:28 am

Wild Wolves wrote:And just becasue one came back and said moral sucked doesn't mena they all thought that.

Keep arm chair QBing, I am sure when it is all over we will all be absolutely correct in our assumptions about the war.

People went without sugar, gas, meat, etc.. during WWII.  What have you gone without?  I live just as I did prior to 9/11.  I often feel guilt over this.  Having done little to help in our country's efforts.

theres a difference between what happened on 9/11 and the war in Iraq.  it's been proven that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.  I have no problem with the troops being in Afghanistan and fighting terrorism and hunting bin Laden.  And what are our assumptions about the war in Iraq?  They had no WMD's?  That's been proven.  And that is supposed to be why we invaded in the first place.  Over 2/3 of americans are against the war in Iraq so I have alot of company in my armchair QBing!
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Postby baller01 » Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:53 pm

nativegolfer wrote:
baseball wrote:
baller01 wrote:
NDSportsFan wrote: I would love to see the US pull all it's troops out because it's so agonizing hearing about the daily casualties.  But on the other hand, I know that the last thing we need is another government in that area hostile to the US.  I just wish that there was some hope of training the Iraqi military to defend the new government, but it doesn't look likely.  Another Vietnam-like exit strategy.

Do you expect to be in a war and not have casualties? It is war. Of course there are going to be casualties.

i think its just weird how they all end up dead, car bombs, suicide missions.   Ive always thought war was a stategic thing to attack the opponents in bulks, and not one suicidal person blowing up his car as he drives by a group of 6 Americans.
I'm tired of this cowbay attitude of "we can't leave until the job is done".  It's not going to get done because these terrorists aren't going to give up.  One dies and another takes thier place.  And these poor national guards.  To me the name implies they help the U.S. in times of national crisis.  Why are they being sent over seas?  I just don't understand it!

I suppose there is no point in putting murderers in jail then huh? We throw a murderer in the US in jail and another one pops up but does that keep us from putting that one killer in prison? Didn't think so.
Winning isn't everything--but wanting to win is. -Vince Lombardi
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Postby nativegolfer » Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:00 pm

baller01 wrote:
nativegolfer wrote:
baseball wrote:
baller01 wrote:
NDSportsFan wrote: I would love to see the US pull all it's troops out because it's so agonizing hearing about the daily casualties.  But on the other hand, I know that the last thing we need is another government in that area hostile to the US.  I just wish that there was some hope of training the Iraqi military to defend the new government, but it doesn't look likely.  Another Vietnam-like exit strategy.

Do you expect to be in a war and not have casualties? It is war. Of course there are going to be casualties.

i think its just weird how they all end up dead, car bombs, suicide missions.   Ive always thought war was a stategic thing to attack the opponents in bulks, and not one suicidal person blowing up his car as he drives by a group of 6 Americans.
I'm tired of this cowbay attitude of "we can't leave until the job is done".  It's not going to get done because these terrorists aren't going to give up.  One dies and another takes thier place.  And these poor national guards.  To me the name implies they help the U.S. in times of national crisis.  Why are they being sent over seas?  I just don't understand it!

I suppose there is no point in putting murderers in jail then huh? We throw a murderer in the US in jail and another one pops up but does that keep us from putting that one killer in prison? Didn't think so.

So when does it end then?  We try to put every terrorist in a detention center, how long will that take?  There's difference there and I would hope you would be intelligent enough to know that. 
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Postby baller01 » Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:13 pm

nativegolfer wrote:
baller01 wrote:
nativegolfer wrote:
baseball wrote:
baller01 wrote:
NDSportsFan wrote: I would love to see the US pull all it's troops out because it's so agonizing hearing about the daily casualties.  But on the other hand, I know that the last thing we need is another government in that area hostile to the US.  I just wish that there was some hope of training the Iraqi military to defend the new government, but it doesn't look likely.  Another Vietnam-like exit strategy.

Do you expect to be in a war and not have casualties? It is war. Of course there are going to be casualties.

i think its just weird how they all end up dead, car bombs, suicide missions.   Ive always thought war was a stategic thing to attack the opponents in bulks, and not one suicidal person blowing up his car as he drives by a group of 6 Americans.
I'm tired of this cowbay attitude of "we can't leave until the job is done".  It's not going to get done because these terrorists aren't going to give up.  One dies and another takes thier place.  And these poor national guards.  To me the name implies they help the U.S. in times of national crisis.  Why are they being sent over seas?  I just don't understand it!

I suppose there is no point in putting murderers in jail then huh? We throw a murderer in the US in jail and another one pops up but does that keep us from putting that one killer in prison? Didn't think so.

So when does it end then?  We try to put every terrorist in a detention center, how long will that take?  There's difference there and I would hope you would be intelligent enough to know that. 

I know what you are saying. I say that we don't pull out of the war on terrisom until Bin Laden is captured or killed. As for Operation Iraqi Freedom, I see nothing wrong with it. You might think it is egotistical but the US has had this approach ever since WWI. In WWI we found out that we weren't involved enough in international affairs. I think what the US is worried about is the same thing that Hitler did to the Jews. Which we did absoutely NOTHING about. From my point of view, I would rather see us over there trying to fix and repair a broken nation then sit back and watch them be ruled by a dictator. We captured Sadaam and now we are trying to restore Iraq, like Ming said, by building new building and schools, that sort of thing.

We are the most powerful nation. We should use our power to help weaker nations like we are. Just my .02 cents.
Winning isn't everything--but wanting to win is. -Vince Lombardi
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Postby Wild Wolves » Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:57 pm

nativegolfer wrote:
Wild Wolves wrote:And just becasue one came back and said moral sucked doesn't mena they all thought that.

Keep arm chair QBing, I am sure when it is all over we will all be absolutely correct in our assumptions about the war.

People went without sugar, gas, meat, etc.. during WWII.  What have you gone without?  I live just as I did prior to 9/11.  I often feel guilt over this.  Having done little to help in our country's efforts.

theres a difference between what happened on 9/11 and the war in Iraq.  it's been proven that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.  I have no problem with the troops being in Afghanistan and fighting terrorism and hunting bin Laden.  And what are our assumptions about the war in Iraq?  They had no WMD's?  That's been proven.  And that is supposed to be why we invaded in the first place.  Over 2/3 of americans are against the war in Iraq so I have alot of company in my armchair QBing!


I didn't say they were connected.  The current situation in Iraq is related to 9/11 not the initial reason we went there. 

So when we first went there were you for it or against it.  I was for it then, but I beleived the intelligence reports so did most congresspersons. 

This is like saying you are going with the favorite and when they fall behind you change your pick.  Hindsight doesn't make you intelligent.  And following the crowd doesn't mean you are right.  I think we should stay until there is some stability.  I don't think it should be a half baked time line. 

Ever been in volved with construction? You have a timeline, sometimes things don't go your way in terms of weather getting materials etc.. If the deadline comes and you aren't done you don't just walk away.  We are building.
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Postby NDSportsFan » Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:59 am

baller01 wrote:
nativegolfer wrote:
baller01 wrote:
nativegolfer wrote:
baseball wrote:
baller01 wrote:
NDSportsFan wrote: I would love to see the US pull all it's troops out because it's so agonizing hearing about the daily casualties.  But on the other hand, I know that the last thing we need is another government in that area hostile to the US.  I just wish that there was some hope of training the Iraqi military to defend the new government, but it doesn't look likely.  Another Vietnam-like exit strategy.

Do you expect to be in a war and not have casualties? It is war. Of course there are going to be casualties.

i think its just weird how they all end up dead, car bombs, suicide missions.   Ive always thought war was a stategic thing to attack the opponents in bulks, and not one suicidal person blowing up his car as he drives by a group of 6 Americans.
I'm tired of this cowbay attitude of "we can't leave until the job is done".  It's not going to get done because these terrorists aren't going to give up.  One dies and another takes thier place.  And these poor national guards.  To me the name implies they help the U.S. in times of national crisis.  Why are they being sent over seas?  I just don't understand it!

I suppose there is no point in putting murderers in jail then huh? We throw a murderer in the US in jail and another one pops up but does that keep us from putting that one killer in prison? Didn't think so.

So when does it end then?  We try to put every terrorist in a detention center, how long will that take?  There's difference there and I would hope you would be intelligent enough to know that. 

I know what you are saying. I say that we don't pull out of the war on terrisom until Bin Laden is captured or killed. As for Operation Iraqi Freedom, I see nothing wrong with it. You might think it is egotistical but the US has had this approach ever since WWI. In WWI we found out that we weren't involved enough in international affairs. I think what the US is worried about is the same thing that Hitler did to the Jews. Which we did absoutely NOTHING about. From my point of view, I would rather see us over there trying to fix and repair a broken nation then sit back and watch them be ruled by a dictator. We captured Sadaam and now we are trying to restore Iraq, like Ming said, by building new building and schools, that sort of thing.

We are the most powerful nation. We should use our power to help weaker nations like we are. Just my .02 cents.

Actually Iraq has plenty of resources to rebuild themselves, they are one of the richest oil producing countries in the world.  What they don't have is a military that can ensure that the new government won't be overthrown as soon as the foreign troops pull out.  Similar to what happened in Vietnam, we have no clear exit strategy.  All I would like, and what most americans want, is a realistic timeline of how long this is going to take and where we are at in the process. 
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Postby Wild Wolves » Thu Apr 26, 2007 5:30 am

I don't really think war has an exit strategy, the idea that we can accurately predict how a war will end and when is absurd. 

If we did things based on timelines kids would graduate in a time period not based on academic performance, everyone would die at a specific age.  This is life and there are no guarantees.
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Postby baller01 » Thu Apr 26, 2007 5:49 am

Wild Wolves wrote:I don't really think war has an exit strategy, the idea that we can accurately predict how a war will end and when is absurd. 

If we did things based on timelines kids would graduate in a time period not based on academic performance, everyone would die at a specific age.  This is life and there are no guarantees.

Completely agree. You can't just say we are going to end the war on this date and time. That isn't how it works. Wars aren't suppose to finish at a set time.
Winning isn't everything--but wanting to win is. -Vince Lombardi
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Postby Ming01 » Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:40 am

baller01 wrote:
Wild Wolves wrote:I don't really think war has an exit strategy, the idea that we can accurately predict how a war will end and when is absurd. 

If we did things based on timelines kids would graduate in a time period not based on academic performance, everyone would die at a specific age.  This is life and there are no guarantees.

Completely agree. You can't just say we are going to end the war on this date and time. That isn't how it works. Wars aren't suppose to finish at a set time.

agreed as well.  wars are suppose to end when the job is finished
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Postby cdub1 » Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:41 pm

here is my problem with the war

we are trying to fix iraq's problems iraq always has and always will have problems it isn't our job to fix them

people say they need to help out all the starving people all over well i think we have that here in the u.s. people say we need to stop the terrorists i agree with that but where does it end people live and people die and the cycle goes on and on but now the u.s. is speeding up this cycle and i have a very big problem with this

should their be soldiers in iraq right no NO they should be at home with their families enjoying what should be a time of peace but that just can't happen
Last edited by cdub1 on Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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id rather die like a man than live like a coward becuz a coward dies a thousand deaths
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Postby Tu-Big » Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:50 pm

baseball wrote:
rumbles wrote:
baseball wrote:either your a history buff or u did alot of research haha.  but i think he means the war is terrible because some of the troops probably dont even know what they are fighting for.  I thought the war on terror was on Bin Laden, not Saddam.  and since they were in Iraq to get Saddam, which they did, why are they still there?
I think instead of rushing into Iraq we should have tried harder at Bin Laden for what he did on 9/11. He's out there on the loose making who knows what kind of plans to strike again and he still hasen't payed for the lives of the people he killed.

Exactly.....doesnt make any sense

The only reason Saddam is involved is because of Bush Sr.'s presidency, the son is just trying to end what the father started.
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Postby baseball18 » Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:27 am

cdub1 wrote:here is my problem with the war

we are trying to fix iraq's problems iraq always has and always will have problems it isn't our job to fix them

people say they need to help out all the starving people all over well i think we have that here in the u.s. people say we need to stop the terrorists i agree with that but where does it end people live and people die and the cycle goes on and on but now the u.s. is speeding up this cycle and i have a very big problem with this

should their be soldiers in iraq right no NO they should be at home with their families enjoying what should be a time of peace but that just can't happen


We need to stay in Iraq... do you want to start paying $15 for gas?  If we pull out Iran will take over the whole Middle East.  I think we need to atleast pull back (not pull out), gather ourselves and try to negotiate with Iran. Negotiate with them to pull out our troops from the Iranian border if they stop adding terrorists.  We're on the verge of WWIII here and if we pull out, Iran takes over and things get even worse over there.  Not many ppl know exactly what's going on over there and we need to be ready for another War.  And we need to be ready. Iran is our biggest threat to this day. Iran is the future and we need to elect a president who knows how to stop them. 
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Postby rep » Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:38 pm

there won't be a new president in 08...w is going to declare a state of emergency (or something) so that he can't be taken out of office.

that is what i bet myself five bucks on a couple of months anyway.
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Postby Wild Wolves » Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:18 am

I don't think that would fly.  That would set back democracy 200 years. 
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Postby rep » Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:21 am

eh...if i'm wrong i only have to pay myself five bucks...and if i hold out and let the juice run for a bit, i'm in the money when i collect
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Postby rep » Tue Jul 24, 2007 6:09 am

rep
 

Postby rep » Tue Jul 24, 2007 6:13 am

rep
 

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