NDHSAA has work to do

NDHSAA has work to do

Postby heimer » Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:08 am

Some thoughts on state volleyball:

First, it's about d@mn time this crap with two semi-finals happening at the same time comes to an end.

This is the state semifinals. We shouldn't be stopping outstanding rallies in mid-rally because the ball from the other net rolls on the surface. I realize the sessions need to be split so we can continue fleecing spectators, so I suggest the following:

Option A) Second-day consolations matches (session 3): Two courts at 8:00 a.m. (8 and 10)
Semi-finals (session 4): main court at 2 p.m. (A-A-B-B) (2-4-6-8)
Leave Saturday alone

Option B) Consolation matches at 10-12 at the Minot Auditorium, semis at 2-4-6-8 at the Dome
Bismarck--Consolation at convention hall, semis in main arena
Fargo and Grand Forks--Consolation at a high school (all are big enough for that crowd)

Option C) Eliminate the session break on Friday, change ticket price to reflect
Two courts 9 and 11
2-4-6-8 finals

Second, eliminate the back-and-forth that goes on between the high school hosting and the facility. We need direct oversight from the NDHSAA. The concession stands were terrible, and cash only? Really? Either it's 1987 or the concession stand company is scamming the IRS. Put a credit card machine in for Christmas sake. And you couldn't find a hamburger in the joint. Hotdogs, polishes (that, on my one trip to a stand, were 7 effin minutes from being done......during the second set of matches of the day), pizza, and pretzels. That's it? Give me a break.

Also, at these ticket prices, you might want to start thinking about your fans and your media. The work isn't done at locker room assignments and the courts being ready. PA announcers, music, apparel, are all a big part of the show for the fan. As far as media goes, how about not waiting till Friday morning to fix cat-5 cable? And you didn't even pull out the bleachers in the upper level. You know, in volleyball, ladders and refs screen the entire net. You might want to put the broadcasters in an upper level, you know, like where the bleachers you're not using are?

My take: I'm not sure anyone outside of the players were really trying here. This state tournament was more of an afterthought while the same building gets ready to host B boys. Talking with some folks, it's clear that the communication between the NDHSAA, the hosts, and Minot State was poor to terrible. It just wasn't a very good show, which was too bad, because it was great volleyball.
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Re: NDHSAA has work to do

Postby gotgame43 » Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:46 pm

yep , there it is.. you are spot on in your last comment about the only people trying to put on a great high school vb tournament were the players. What a disservice to the sport of vb, that the state is so far behind in anyway, but add poor food( might I add that the games were played during meal times) oompapa music designed to entertain the grandparents in the crowd that don't even understand volleyball, most of the time the two gals in charge forgot to turn it on until half way thru the warmup. You could actually quit combining class a and b as well as because when the respective classes are finished playing their fans all leave. maybe 1/4 of the bleachers were filled after the class a championship game was finished. It was definitely amateur hour at the state tourney this year...Good job NDHSAA!
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Re: NDHSAA has work to do

Postby sportsphenom » Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:27 pm

I agree on a lot of your points. But this is typical NDHSAA, they are just not up with the times. I feel like we are stuck in 1988. Like the poster said in the other thread- the announcers they have are horrible, they are always so monotone and whip through the names so fast and usually mispronounced that unless you really follow volleyball and know who these girls are, you have no clue on who is getting awards. It just always seems so downplayed which is sad for these girls, they work their butt off to get to this level and there is no enthusiasm.

I also agree on the semi-final thing, although I would hate to be the one getting up at 8:00 in the morning to accomodate this. But at a state tournament, especially in the winners bracket, you shouldn't have to worry about balls coming onto your court in a good rally.

And WHY, I ask WHY does it always have to be in Minot?!?!? I would love to see it in Bismarck, but doesn't look like that will ever happen.
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Re: NDHSAA has work to do

Postby Sportsrube » Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:35 pm

I agree with all of this. If they can play a Championship FB game at 9:00 AM to accommodate TV ('cause TV matters more than the kids) then they can play a VB match at 8:00 AM. I would bet a lot of these teams have played that early during the season at an invitational tournament at least once. As for the NDHSAA, they have lacked any real leadership for a long time now and I do not see it getting any better. It used to be about the participants and now it is all about the money.
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Re: NDHSAA has work to do

Postby sportsphenom » Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:48 pm

Yes many of these girls have all played at 8:00 in the morning, whether its Saturday tournaments or Sunday JO tournaments, they all start at 8:00.
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Re: NDHSAA has work to do

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:49 pm

sportsphenom wrote:And WHY, I ask WHY does it always have to be in Minot?!?!? I would love to see it in Bismarck, but doesn't look like that will ever happen.


This is the sites for the near future:
2015: Minot
2016: Fargo
2017: Minot
2018: Minot
2019: Minot
2020: Fargo

Not sure why Bismarck isn't considered at least once. Maybe Bismarck isn't considered because of the configurations for the courts...I don't really know.
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Re: NDHSAA has work to do

Postby radball » Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:53 pm

I wasn't up there, but it sounds like the girls basketball in fargo(now in MINOT..ERRRRR), in fargo it was a joke last year, same with the state track meet(run out of food on the first day,only on food area open, didn't have water in the warm up area until they had coach's complain, , I REALLY hope they change the bball this yr and allow them to warm up and get use to the big arena before they actually play. I watched the Vball on the internet(still made we have to pay to watch HIGH SCHOOL sports!!, and they didn't even have the stats on after the games and didn't start it until right after the warm ups, what a joke, and the one game I watched the feed line went out and I missed part of the match!) I counted 6!! vballs rolling on to the other court, that is completely uncalled for in a STATE format. ND sports really needs to rethink there venues and people who put it together. NDHSAA, who ever is in charge needs to be fired!!
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Re: NDHSAA has work to do

Postby vikingman » Mon Nov 24, 2014 9:55 pm

It's easy to criticize. Sometimes 'Option B' isn't any better.

Don't like 2 games going on at once? Can you imagine how empty the Dome would have been had they been played separately? For the Thursday noon game you could have gotten all the fans from all 4 cities to fit in 2 sections on one side with room to spare. They could have fixed the errant ball problem by having a higher curtain at half-court and anchoring down the bottom of the curtain more (If I remember right, some balls rolled UNDER the curtain to get to the other court).

Have games at a high school? Yes, there would be enough seating, but could you image the complaints from the participating towns claiming that their team deserved a bigger stage when they win a berth in a state tournament? Even if you're in a consolation round, those players will think they deserve better than that.

I never went to a concession stand. Obviously the NDHSAA obviously doesn't make the food -- if it was as bad as indicated, they might want to go with different vendors next time.

The sound system belongs to the Dome. Yes, maybe different voices would have been easier to hear, maybe not. As for the songs being played, they sounded just like the ones I hear at NS -- I didn't mind it, but maybe the kids do. But if they played the songs that kids liked, you'd have a good portion of the adults complaining (including me).

As for mispronouncing names, unless someone from each team gives instructions on how to pronounce some of those names, how would they know? You've got 100+ names to pronounce for each class. The webcaster mispronounced 'Kvilvang' throughout the Thompson game -- but so have many other radio announcers who are doing NS games for the first time.

I'm not sure what the Cat5 issue was all about --did it involve the webcasts?. It didn't hamper the webcast for the NS game -- what was it that wasn't fixed until Friday? The webcaster seemed good enough to me, but it probably would have helped to have a color person. It looked like they were using some fairly expensive cameras -- so I was disappointed in the picture quality of the webcast. Then again, high video quality = more people that won't be able to watch because of slow connection speeds.

No matter how they do it, the NDHSAA will get the same amount of criticism either way.
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Re: NDHSAA has work to do

Postby heimer » Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:44 am

Wow, it's so easy to give the NDHSAA a free pass......all the flippin time.

It's the state semifinals. The game should not be interfered with by another game, period. Let people leave, fine. I'd still take a non-interfered with game with a smaller crowd over replaying points because we used cheap curtains to separate courts.

But fine, for the sake of argument, we'll go with your "give the NDSHAA a break" mentality. How about two courts side-by-side, like they did at the Auditorium, the Ralph the one year it had volleyball, etc? End to end is bound to cause problems, that is just common sense. If Minot can't handle it, they can't host the tournament.

Holding a facility accountable for the integrity of the game is the NDHSAA's job.

The concessions are sub-contracted out by Minot State, but the NDHSAA has every right to specify a minimum amount of options to be served. If the offerings were better, perhaps more of those fans that left you spoke of would have hung out a while. There needs to be a minimum offerings list that includes more than pizza, hotdogs, and pretzels. If Minot can't handle it, they can't host the tournament.

Holding a host responsible for the quality of the fan experience is the NDHSAA's job.

The music didn't give me that much heartburn, personally, but it was old. Ten minutes on iTunes would have been enough to throw a few songs in the rotation that aren't offensive. That's really all it would have taken. The PA announcer has the responsibility to get the correct pronunciations on names. It is ABSOLUTLEY NOT the team's responsibility. It can be done two ways:

1. The announcer can ask
2. The NDHSAA can prepare a pronunciation guide for the players coming, just like every good college SID (that is usually making less than the executives in Valley City) does for every game.

Furthermore, the PA announcer is part of the show, not some background monotone voice just there for mechanics. If Minot can't get a better voice, they can't host the tournament.

Putting on a professional show is the NDHSAA's job.

Technical support around the media tables needs to be taken care of the day before the tournament. I don't expect fans to understand what goes into that. But fans do understand that, if you're setting up your internet connections for the media to use literally an hour before the first match, something is going to go wrong. The entire Class B table was without a wired internet connection because the tech people did not check their cables in advance. They didn't even bother to fix it till Friday morning, again an hour before the first match. If Minot State can't work out their technical issues for the media, they can't host the tournament.

Promoting media coverage of NDHSAA events is the NDHSAA's job.

Most of this stuff could be resolved with a simple checklist. Instead, it turns into a freakin gong show because seven different entities can't talk to one another, and really, there are no consequences.

There needs to be. Jamestown and Grand Forks can easily host this tournament. Jamestown has more hotel space than they did before, and they ran a tight tournament. If Minot can't handle it, take them out of the rotation. The job they did on this one warrants that action.
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Re: NDHSAA has work to do

Postby scoobyx2 » Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:28 am

I agree that the NDHSAA has a responsibility to run top-notch state events. They shouldn't simply rotate towns on who gets to host it. They can have a rotation, but if the town can't develop a plan on game scheduling, concessions, lodging, media, etc., then the next city that can do it should be awarded the event. Situations like poor announcing, 2 games interfering each other, poor concession food selection, etc. should be reviewed and be a huge factor on whether or not they get to host the event. If numbers are low, then fans are going to have to face consequences of that also. Maybe smaller venues need to be considered. Schools also have a responsibility to promote their teams, and encourage fans to get to the games too. If it isn't important to them, they it won't be important to those outside the schools either.
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Re: NDHSAA has work to do

Postby volleyfan » Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:10 am

The NDHSAA has made a joke of the volleyball state tournament. I have never been so embarrassed and disappointed for the athletes. There is NO reason that the tournament should ever be in Minot again.
All other ND state tournaments are located where the best facilities are. For example, hockey, football, track and basketball. All are held in the top arenas in the state...where they should be. This is NOT the case for volleyball. Minot is a dump. Nearly everyone I spoke with at the state tournament complained about the complete lack of professionalism around the tournament. The announcing was a disaster, the food, the facilities, the geographic location.
THE BYLAWS STATE THAT THE GIRLS STATE TOURNAMENT SHALL BE EQUITABLE TO THE BOYS TOURNAMENTS IN REGARDS TO FACITLITIES, AMMENITIES, OPPORTUNITY.
This has now gotten to the point where title IX now has to be addressed (girls sports given the same treatment as boys) federal law.
LETS ALL DO THE RIGHT THING, AND MOVE THE TOURNAMENT TO EITHR FARGO OR BISMARCK AT A FACILITY THAT THESE KIDS AND FANS DESERVE! Why couldn't the Bismarck civic center, or Fargo Scheels arena hold it?
I suggest that we all email the individual that is head of volleyball at NDHSAA at Kevin.morast@ndhsaa.org
And voice our disappointment. It's the right thing to do!
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Re: NDHSAA has work to do

Postby layup » Sat Nov 29, 2014 10:32 am

Minot is a dump? Both A and B basketball state tournaments are held at the MSU Dome including State A last year. So the venues are equitable. Can't comment on how the tournament was run, wasn't there. I do think volleyball should be held at smaller venues and one game played at a time. Also the championship games should be televised.
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Re: NDHSAA has work to do

Postby go maji » Sat Nov 29, 2014 3:27 pm

volleyfan wrote:The NDHSAA has made a joke of the volleyball state tournament. I have never been so embarrassed and disappointed for the athletes. There is NO reason that the tournament should ever be in Minot again.
All other ND state tournaments are located where the best facilities are. For example, hockey, football, track and basketball. All are held in the top arenas in the state...where they should be. This is NOT the case for volleyball. Minot is a dump. Nearly everyone I spoke with at the state tournament complained about the complete lack of professionalism around the tournament. The announcing was a disaster, the food, the facilities, the geographic location.
THE BYLAWS STATE THAT THE GIRLS STATE TOURNAMENT SHALL BE EQUITABLE TO THE BOYS TOURNAMENTS IN REGARDS TO FACITLITIES, AMMENITIES, OPPORTUNITY.
This has now gotten to the point where title IX now has to be addressed (girls sports given the same treatment as boys) federal law.
LETS ALL DO THE RIGHT THING, AND MOVE THE TOURNAMENT TO EITHR FARGO OR BISMARCK AT A FACILITY THAT THESE KIDS AND FANS DESERVE! Why couldn't the Bismarck civic center, or Fargo Scheels arena hold it?
I suggest that we all email the individual that is head of volleyball at NDHSAA at Kevin.morast@ndhsaa.org
And voice our disappointment. It's the right thing to do!


Also, how is Fargo a better geographic location than Minot. You Make no sense. Minot is known as one of the best arenas in the tri-state area.
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Re: NDHSAA has work to do

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Sat Nov 29, 2014 3:32 pm

go maji wrote:
volleyfan wrote:The NDHSAA has made a joke of the volleyball state tournament. I have never been so embarrassed and disappointed for the athletes. There is NO reason that the tournament should ever be in Minot again.
All other ND state tournaments are located where the best facilities are. For example, hockey, football, track and basketball. All are held in the top arenas in the state...where they should be. This is NOT the case for volleyball. Minot is a dump. Nearly everyone I spoke with at the state tournament complained about the complete lack of professionalism around the tournament. The announcing was a disaster, the food, the facilities, the geographic location.
THE BYLAWS STATE THAT THE GIRLS STATE TOURNAMENT SHALL BE EQUITABLE TO THE BOYS TOURNAMENTS IN REGARDS TO FACITLITIES, AMMENITIES, OPPORTUNITY.
This has now gotten to the point where title IX now has to be addressed (girls sports given the same treatment as boys) federal law.
LETS ALL DO THE RIGHT THING, AND MOVE THE TOURNAMENT TO EITHR FARGO OR BISMARCK AT A FACILITY THAT THESE KIDS AND FANS DESERVE! Why couldn't the Bismarck civic center, or Fargo Scheels arena hold it?
I suggest that we all email the individual that is head of volleyball at NDHSAA at Kevin.morast@ndhsaa.org
And voice our disappointment. It's the right thing to do!


Also, how is Fargo a better geographic location than Minot. You Make no sense. Minot is known as one of the best arenas in the tri-state area.


1. Minot State is a good site for the tournament...things have worked out well in the past. This year seemed to have more issues though
2. I agree...Things need to be re-thought on how it is run so things can be done more efficiently
3. Volleyball is definitely behind on the times...other than BEK Sports, Volleyball doesn't get itself on TV like Football, Basketball or even Hockey does
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Re: NDHSAA has work to do

Postby volleyfan » Sat Nov 29, 2014 6:59 pm

Dear Go Maji...
If you really believe that "Minot is known as one of the best arenas in the tri-state area" YOU ARE A CLUELESS. IT IS A DUMP!
As far as Fargo not being geographically better than Minot...if you read my post, I said either Fargo OR Bismarck. Fargo would be geographically beneficial to college recruiters with close proximity to the twin cities. I have personally spoken to many college coaches from MN and they all laugh at the idea of driving 7 hours to watch a pathetically run tournament. It's NOT going to happen.
Let's step up to the plate, and just open our minds to the fact that it maybe a time for a change. Just because it was once a decent spot for a tournament doesn't mean it still is. Dakota field in Fargo was once a good spot for the HS football state championship, but obviously is no more!
Let's keep in mind that this is for the KIDS. I have personally talked with many players who either played, or went to watch the tournament, and the consensus is in...it is a 3rd rate arena, and experience. We can, and should do better!
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Re: NDHSAA has work to do

Postby Baller » Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:03 pm

I heard the Bismarck civic center cannot host because of the standards. Civic center won't let them drill into the floor and the standards that would have to brought in is not feasible. Not sure if scheels arena is big enough. I know it was looked into during the flood in Minot but I don't think it has been revisited since. I don't mind the dome as a facility but I do agree that the quality of the tournament has diminished. I though the super A basketball tournament ran well in Minot using the dome and the auditorium. Not sure if that is something they would look at for volleyball.
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Re: NDHSAA has work to do

Postby volleyfan » Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:53 am

There is a reason that the State Basketball tournament is in the Fargodome next year...best facility, ability to handle the fans with most hotel availability and restaurant choices and availability. On top of that, and just as important, it is a THRILL FOR THE KIDS and FANS to play in this venue. There is a reason the state football championship is in the dome...same as above. There is a reason the state track meet is in Bismarck...best facility! The state hockey tournament...Scheels Arena. State swimming...Bismarck aquatic center. State wrestling...Fargodome.
Just ask yourself this question: " If it were your son or daughter, where do you think they would most likely have the best experience, and feel valued?" As pointed out above, all the state tournaments, with the exception of one (volleyball), are held at the top facilities in the state!
FYI, in all of our neighboring states, they seem to think volleyball should be held to the same standards as their other sports. In Montana, the state tourney is at Montana State Univ (best facility in the state).
Minnesota has their vball tourney at the Excel Energy Center. World class facility!
South Dakota has theirs at the Yankton Summit Center...beautiful facility.
It's time folks. The kids deserve better. There's a reason all other sports have moved to the best facilities, and now it's volleyballs turn.
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Re: NDHSAA has work to do

Postby ndlionsfan » Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:37 am

While I do agree that state volleyball gets the shaft (can't believe none of it is televised yet), I don't like the fargodome to host it. It is not the best facility for bball or vball. Just too big. I have played in the state bball tourney there and in Minot, and the best for the players was easily Minot. I have only attended state vball tourney once and that was in the fargo civic which was surprisingly nice. Just the right size to feel full but not crowded. I think the scheels arena would be good (which is not the best hockey facility in the state by the way) but I think the best place would be Jamestown. Not to big, but big enough and nice enough. Centrally located to draw in more casual fans to build the sport and large enough city to host the fans. But it needs to get televised and ndhsaa needs to step up on that
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Re: NDHSAA has work to do

Postby layup » Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:06 am

Best basketball facility, in my opinion, is the Bismarck Civic Center for the high school state tournaments. It is being held in Fargo this year because of the rotation not because it is the "best" facility. I have attended tournaments in Minot, Bismarck and Fargo. The Fargo dome was ok but it is not a basketball facility and I would rate it third behind Bismarck and Minot. However, that being said the Minot dome could use some updating/remodeling. It in fact was scheduled to be remodeled until the flood of 2011 happened. The project is on hold for now. Never been to an event in Grand Forks. All four of the big (ND Big) cities have adequate hotel space and restaurants so I don't know what that is about. Can't compare ND to Minnesota or any city in ND to Minneapolis Metro. Assuming what you say is correct about SD and MT, does MT and SD have other facilities other than the ones mentioned that even compare and are capable of holding their state tournaments? Don't know that is why I am asking.
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Re: NDHSAA has work to do

Postby vikingman » Sun Nov 30, 2014 1:03 pm

ndlionsfan wrote:can't believe none of it is televised yet


I don't see any of the ND networks wanting to telecast this in the near future. When the number of people who attend the games in person is as low as it is, you would have to believe that the TV ratings would be abysmal--and that's what would drive the decision.
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Re: NDHSAA has work to do

Postby heimer » Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:49 am

I'm throwing my vote at the Ralph and the Betty in Grand Forks.

Self-serving, I know, but I'll explain.

The championship match at the Betty would be the best atmosphere you will find, period. It's a classy, big-arena feel, but small enough for real atmosphere. The place would hop on the final day.

Here's how I see it working:

Day 1: Two courts in the main arena.
Day 2: Consi in main arena (four matches), semis in the Betty on one floor (four matches)
Day 3: 7-7-5-5 in main arena, 3-3-1-1 in Betty.

This works, period. And it addresses every other problem we experienced in Minot.

I don't think Minot is a dump, but I think it's all wrong for volleyball. It also needs serious work if it's going to be in a rotation for B basketball. They have the space, but they need the touches.
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Re: NDHSAA has work to do

Postby volleyfan » Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:39 am

I agree 100% regarding the Betty. That would be phenomenal. Also. Someone mentioned that the reason that the Bismarck civic center couldn't hold it was because they were unwilling to drill holes for the standards. This is NOT an issue anymore with the new portable standards that do not need to be anchored in the ground. As a matter of fact, Minot used them this year at the tournament.
I have to apologize for using the word "dump" when describing the Minot Dome. I was typing with emotion. It is not a dump. I think we all have to agree, however, that there are better venues for the kids.
The Betty would be perfect!
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