2013 STATE TOURNEY

Re: 2013 STATE TOURNEY

Postby vb4life » Sun Nov 24, 2013 2:34 pm

Who votes for these all tournament teams?? How does Thompson get 3 on there and they got 6th place?? And 2 great defensive players No. Cass and Lamoures liberos didn't get on there?
Last edited by vb4life on Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
vb4life
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:55 pm

Re: 2013 STATE TOURNEY

Postby ndlionsfan » Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:01 pm

I agree and thought the same when I saw the list. I think the media selects the team and it almost seems like they are preselected or done after the first day based on name recognition.

On a separate note, any comments on seeding after the tourney played out?
"There is only one thing in which a person can start at the top - digging a hole"
User avatar
ndlionsfan
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 3674
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:36 am
Location: Central ND

Re: 2013 STATE TOURNEY

Postby vb4life » Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:09 pm

The only thing I got out of the seeding was that Thompson I believe was overrated, I had never seen them throughout the year so maybe they just had a bad tournament but they definately didn't impress me. I think the other 3 seeds definately deserved their spot.
vb4life
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:55 pm

Re: 2013 STATE TOURNEY

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:28 pm

vb4life wrote:The only thing I got out of the seeding was that Thompson I believe was overrated, I had never seen them throughout the year so maybe they just had a bad tournament but they definately didn't impress me. I think the other 3 seeds definately deserved their spot.


Thompson just had an awful game against Stanley. From seeing three or four matches this year, I imagine the nerves got the best of them and Stanley came to prove themselves on Thursday.

Thompson also lost a key front row player due to an injury very early in the Consolation Championship match (potential ACL injury).

Stanley did deserve a seeded spot but being from Region 8...I'm sure they weren't seen very often. So maybe that hindered them a bit. I guess it would be nice to know how the seed ranking was for all 8 teams...maybe Stanley was the #5 seeded team.

I agree...other 3 proved they should have been seeded.
Email ND HS Scores to: ndhsscores at yahoo
Follow ND HS Scores (NDScores) on Twitter
Find Scores/Schedules/Standings: http://www.northdakota-scores.net
THANKS!
User avatar
Run4Fun2009
NDPreps The King
 
Posts: 14128
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:06 pm

Re: 2013 STATE TOURNEY

Postby leroybla » Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:41 pm

ClassBEast wrote:Interesting Note: The past 3 years, the District 2 RUNNER-UP has become STATE CHAMPS (Central Cass, Kindred, Northern Cass). Nice job District 2!


Congratulations Northern Cass on a fine tournament. District 2 has been extremely strong in recent years and it has been said that 2 or 3 teams from D2 would likely be championship material at state, as I believe was true this year. Even fourth place Kindred would have been competitive.
leroybla
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 167
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:47 pm

Re: 2013 STATE TOURNEY

Postby Zelda » Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:30 pm

I feel it very odd that anyone would question the girls making the All Tournament Team, bad example for our kids. The kids who made it are very deserving, sometimes stats don't say it all. Being concerned about individual awards for recognition when a certain athlete isn't given the award isn't what high competition is meant to be about. There are several students who 'could' be given many awards (depends on whom is concerned). But standout athletes aren't concerned about the individual awards; they want the team awards, very likely this results in them getting recognized individually. Those coaches who vote are not attached to an individual and look at everything from a coach's standpoint (who would I want on my team, what does this athlete bring to the team on and off the court, etc.). There is a huge difference from a coach's standpoint and a bystander in the stands, and, most likely bystanders would disagree with this! I saw most of the tournament and was not shocked by any of the individuals selected. There was some great volleyball played this weekend, a team can lose a match and still have players who played extremely well. Several of the girls that were on the all tournament team played defense and did it very well. So, it seems that it wasn't only offense players making the team. It was awesome to see such balanced players who could do both and teams like Northern Cass who put it all together for an almost flawless tournament. Hats off to them and all of the teams that made it to state. It is a great accomplishment and no player should feel any less than that.
Zelda
NDPreps Reserve
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:10 pm

Re: 2013 STATE TOURNEY

Postby vb4life » Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:44 pm

No offense given to the players that made it, I know they are great players because obviously they have helped their teams make it that far. I guess my main complaint was that every single award was given to a hitter or setter, not 1 single ds or libero was on that list and those girls work their butts off with little or no recognition. But we all know that hitters get the glory. I guess I would have liked to have seen a more rounded tournament team, let's face it hitters don't get the stats unless someone is working their butt off in the back row.
vb4life
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:55 pm

Re: 2013 STATE TOURNEY

Postby vb4life » Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:46 pm

And congrats to Northern Cass, a very deserving team, very well rounded team and fun to watch. Also fun to see new teams in the tournament this year, means that the sport of volleyball is evolving in ND. Class A championship was one of the most exciting matches I've ever seen. Congrats to Jamestown.......outstanding defense!!
vb4life
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:55 pm

Re: 2013 STATE TOURNEY

Postby avidsportster » Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:38 pm

I know that several of the girls who made the team play throughout the whole game, which would mean that they are in the back row as well. This would mean that they are playing the defense too, good enough that the team doesn't need a Defensive Specialist in their place.

It seems that most teams' outsides play all the way through. Carrington's middle plays some backrow defense as well. Both of their players are their go-to girls in the front, but are also diving in the back row.

Let's not confuse others into thinking that the only players making it never played in the back row. Most do both, strong hitting and blocking in the front, as well as diving and digging in the back row. That would be to me a very good reason as to why they get picked. They are quite outstanding in both the offensive and defensive positions.

I am confused as to why you refer to these girls as making it due to their hitting, when the vast majority of them making it play the back row defensive positions as well, with most playing the outsides, which takes the majority of digs. I don't recall seeing anyone put their Libero in that position, which indicates that their hitters are strong defenders.

You wouldn't make a great defender and one of your better hitters a Libero, it doesn't make sense. You can have a great hitter and a great defender this way in one player. There are many more skills required from these players.

I saw many setters playing defense as well. If running a 6-2 offense, setters are playing defense in the back row every time the other team hits the ball. Implying that any girl doesn't play defense doesn't make sense, as if they aren't on offense, they are on defense. All girls have a responsibility on defense, with many front row players being the ones diving for tips and cross court slide shots.

If any of these teams could have any of Jamestown's back row players, they would have likely won more games. Jamestown's DS's and Libero are far above the abilities of any defenders in the state. When you have that elite talent when only playing in the back row, you will get recognized as being some of the best players in the state tournament. Just as they did. Well deserved because they earned it.

Jamestown is very lucky to have such a group of defenders, there isn't anyone who comes close to their talent from what I have seen.

I just wanted to clarify what seemed to be a complaint that no defenders made the tournament team, as that is misleading information.
avidsportster
NDPreps Reserve
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:45 am

Re: 2013 STATE TOURNEY

Postby vb4life » Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:50 pm

I may have been misleading in that regard. All of the hitters that I seen play the back row, played it very well. I was really amazed at some of the bigger girls that played the back row so well, I give them tons of credit as sometimes bigger girls tire easily. I am in no way comparing class B to class A either, Jamestown's defense is outstanding, they are all very deserving of an award and ultimately they did win the ultimate prize- state champs. No one in that whole state tournament has anything to hang their head on, I too seen some great volleyball, just would like to see the little people get recognized more. It is a team sport, you need all assets to make it well. One team does not win on hitters and setters alone. I only referenced No. Cass and Lamoure as they were the only teams I seen really utilize their liberos and where they made an impact on the caliber of play of their team obviously helping them to get to the state championship game.
And everyone will have their opinion on this, I'm just stating mine. My initial question was never answered though- who does decide on this team?
But once again, congrats to all the teams, players and coaches, it was a fun tournament to watch, some very exciting games on both class B and class A side. Lots of talent in the little state of ND. All of you should be proud of your accomplishments, as a fan of volleyball this sport has come a long way in this state and every year it gets more and more competitive. Can't wait to attend next years tournament.
vb4life
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:55 pm

Re: 2013 STATE TOURNEY

Postby scc » Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:02 am

ndlionsfan wrote:I agree and thought the same when I saw the list. I think the media selects the team and it almost seems like they are preselected or done after the first day based on name recognition.

I think the coaches vote on it, but not sure when.
scc
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 2681
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 6:52 am
Location: East

Re: 2013 STATE TOURNEY

Postby lovwatchingsports » Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:26 am

Run4Fun2009 wrote:
vb4life wrote:The only thing I got out of the seeding was that Thompson I believe was overrated, I had never seen them throughout the year so maybe they just had a bad tournament but they definately didn't impress me. I think the other 3 seeds definately deserved their spot.


Thompson just had an awful game against Stanley. From seeing three or four matches this year, I imagine the nerves got the best of them and Stanley came to prove themselves on Thursday.

Thompson also lost a key front row player due to an injury very early in the Consolation Championship match (potential ACL injury).

Stanley did deserve a seeded spot but being from Region 8...I'm sure they weren't seen very often. So maybe that hindered them a bit. I guess it would be nice to know how the seed ranking was for all 8 teams...maybe Stanley was the #5 seeded team.

I agree...other 3 proved they should have been seeded.


??? #5 ??? they took fourth and beat the team that took fifth 3-0.
lovwatchingsports
NDPreps All-State
 
Posts: 539
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:20 pm

Re: 2013 STATE TOURNEY

Postby vb4life » Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:59 pm

I believe it is hard to seed any tournament as not everyone sees everyone and you go by stats, records, schedule etc. Coaches are making their decision on seeding based on this information. I like the idea of using Run's QVF rating instead of the seeding. But like he said, the way the QVF rating went this year it was seeded right. Volleyball is up and down. Teams can play great one day and have a down day the next day. Many what ifs. I know looking at the Lamoure/Stanley game if Stanley wouldn't have missed 15 serves and some of them late in games they probably would have won that match. I guess that's what makes volleyball exciting and frustrating as a coaches and fans point of view.
vb4life
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:55 pm

Re: 2013 STATE TOURNEY

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:18 pm

lovwatchingsports wrote:
Run4Fun2009 wrote:
vb4life wrote:The only thing I got out of the seeding was that Thompson I believe was overrated, I had never seen them throughout the year so maybe they just had a bad tournament but they definately didn't impress me. I think the other 3 seeds definately deserved their spot.


Thompson just had an awful game against Stanley. From seeing three or four matches this year, I imagine the nerves got the best of them and Stanley came to prove themselves on Thursday.

Thompson also lost a key front row player due to an injury very early in the Consolation Championship match (potential ACL injury).

Stanley did deserve a seeded spot but being from Region 8...I'm sure they weren't seen very often. So maybe that hindered them a bit. I guess it would be nice to know how the seed ranking was for all 8 teams...maybe Stanley was the #5 seeded team.

I agree...other 3 proved they should have been seeded.


??? #5 ??? they took fourth and beat the team that took fifth 3-0.


I was talking about wondering what their seed was coming into the tourney (not being in the Top 4; I was wondering how the coaches had voted the other 4 unseeded/random draw teams). I was NOT stating that they were the 5th best team in the tourney. They proved they were in the top 4 with their demolition of Thompson in the first round.
Email ND HS Scores to: ndhsscores at yahoo
Follow ND HS Scores (NDScores) on Twitter
Find Scores/Schedules/Standings: http://www.northdakota-scores.net
THANKS!
User avatar
Run4Fun2009
NDPreps The King
 
Posts: 14128
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:06 pm

Re: 2013 STATE TOURNEY

Postby vb4life » Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:06 pm

ndlionsfan wrote:I agree and thought the same when I saw the list. I think the media selects the team and it almost seems like they are preselected or done after the first day based on name recognition?


This is one thing I hate about all-tournament teams, not only in volleyball, but basketball too. How can you decide who makes all tournament when you haven't voted on all the games that they played?? I think this team would be a lot different if it was voted after the whole tournament was over with.
vb4life
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:55 pm

Re: 2013 STATE TOURNEY

Postby ndlionsfan » Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:11 pm

vb4life wrote:
ndlionsfan wrote:I agree and thought the same when I saw the list. I think the media selects the team and it almost seems like they are preselected or done after the first day based on name recognition?


This is one thing I hate about all-tournament teams, not only in volleyball, but basketball too. How can you decide who makes all tournament when you haven't voted on all the games that they played?? I think this team would be a lot different if it was voted after the whole tournament was over with.


Technically I believe its voted on before the third place game the final night or before the championship game starts. My reference was that if the media votes (which is how its done in bball and I would assume vball, but could be different) is that they make up their mind going in to the tournament or after the first round of games. I don't think many keep an objective mind throughout the whole tournament and vote accordingly. Name recognition also sways media votes. That's why I always put more stock in awards that are voted on by coaches.

I also did not mean that I didn't agree with the all tournament team in my first post. I was not at the tournament, so would have no idea. I was just surprised that the 6th place team placed three on all tournament.
"There is only one thing in which a person can start at the top - digging a hole"
User avatar
ndlionsfan
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 3674
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:36 am
Location: Central ND

Re: 2013 STATE TOURNEY

Postby vb4life » Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:34 pm

Yeah that is what I was most surprised about too was the 3 on the 6th place team, not taking away from those girls but I believe the teams that make it further obviously had a lot more supporting cast to help them get that far. I would have had 4 or 5 of N. Cass on there because they are a great team and all those girls played a role in getting there, but I know you draw the line somewhere. Was just shocked by the 3 on the 6th place team though.
Last edited by vb4life on Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
vb4life
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:55 pm

Re: 2013 STATE TOURNEY

Postby vb4life » Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:45 pm

On a side note. Does anyone know what did cause the power outage at the dome?? That was quite the experience.
vb4life
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:55 pm

Re: 2013 STATE TOURNEY

Postby scc » Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:12 pm

ndlionsfan wrote:
vb4life wrote:
ndlionsfan wrote:I agree and thought the same when I saw the list. I think the media selects the team and it almost seems like they are preselected or done after the first day based on name recognition?


This is one thing I hate about all-tournament teams, not only in volleyball, but basketball too. How can you decide who makes all tournament when you haven't voted on all the games that they played?? I think this team would be a lot different if it was voted after the whole tournament was over with.


Technically I believe its voted on before the third place game the final night or before the championship game starts. My reference was that if the media votes (which is how its done in bball and I would assume vball, but could be different) is that they make up their mind going in to the tournament or after the first round of games. I don't think many keep an objective mind throughout the whole tournament and vote accordingly. Name recognition also sways media votes. That's why I always put more stock in awards that are voted on by coaches.

I also did not mean that I didn't agree with the all tournament team in my first post. I was not at the tournament, so would have no idea. I was just surprised that the 6th place team placed three on all tournament.

I can't speak for volleyball, but basketball all-tournament team may be voted on until the 3rd quarter of the championship game. The media makes up maybe half the vote, as other tournament officials, etc. get to weigh in. Regarding the name recognition comment, that sways the vote no matter who gets involved.
scc
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 2681
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 6:52 am
Location: East

Re: 2013 STATE TOURNEY

Postby Zelda » Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:45 pm

Those teams are voted on after all teams have been seen twice and possibly some three times, for the earlier teams on Saturday. If you haven't played well enough in two games for them to be thinking the player is outstanding, then one more game isn't going to change their mind. Each region runner up coach is on the committee. These coaches take it seriously and do know what they are doing. For anyone to be questioning it, just points to it being a disgruntled parent or player on this board. Both N. Cass and LaMoure had two girls selected who play six rotations and are tremendous back row players, so those teams seemed to be represented well. I would say that 80 - 90 % of the girls who made the team play six rotations. There were 17 on the tournament team, two more than normal, so maybe there was a tie or something. Whatever the case, to weigh so heavily on individual recognition is just silly. To criticize and say that the defense wasn't represented is totally incorrect as most of the girls making it are studs in the front row and quite mobile in the back row as well. It just makes sense that if you can do both very well that you are the better pick. Now, if on the other hand, you have Jamestown's DS and Libero who are all over the court and make unbelievable digs back to the setter, it wouldn't be a question, they would be on the team. I didn't see any players like that though.
Zelda
NDPreps Reserve
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:10 pm

Re: 2013 STATE TOURNEY

Postby vb4life » Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:04 pm

Not questioning the all around 6 rotation players, they are very deserving. But guess what, liberos play 6 rotations too (although a couple of the teams didn't play theirs all the time) and to say they weren't all over the floor is not giving them credit. We will just agree to disagree, no need to argue about it anymore. Thank you for clearing up who picks the teams, they obviously seen something I didn't while watching the games. I myself would like to give props to all those ds's and liberos out there, they are often over looked but are so very important to these teams. I'm sure some of those teams wouldn't have been to the state tournament without them.
vb4life
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:55 pm

Re: 2013 STATE TOURNEY

Postby jellybean » Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:45 pm

vb4life wrote:Yeah that is what I was most surprised about too was the 3 on the 6th place team, not taking away from those girls but I believe the teams that make it further obviously had a lot more supporting cast to help them get that far. I would have had 4 or 5 of N. Cass on there because they are a great team and all those girls played a role in getting there, but I know you draw the line somewhere. Was just shocked by the 3 on the 6th place team though.


So, in your expert opinion, which girl shouldn't have made it, so that your libero could have?
jellybean
NDPreps Rookie
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:31 pm

Re: 2013 STATE TOURNEY

Postby vb4life » Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:55 pm

I will not or will I ever call anyone out, the committee made their decision. Just shocked 3 from a 6th place team made it, that never happens. The top teams deserved their players, no doubt about that. Like I stated before, I think a tournament team should recognize all areas of the floor and YES I know hitters play backrow too, but on some of these teams their liberos are a huge part of their success and I believe on N. Cass and Lamoure's team, that they were a big part of that. Everyone sees different aspects of the game of volleyball, I believe, like most sports, that defense is a huge part of it. People on this board could go round and round about it, we all have our opinions. There was also no intent to cut down the girls that made it, they helped their team to state and should be recognized and obviously the committee seen something great in each and every one of you, sometimes thats what makes awards hard, there are a lot of deserving players but only a select few are awarded. Congrats to all players of this years state tournament.
Last edited by vb4life on Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
vb4life
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:55 pm

Re: 2013 STATE TOURNEY

Postby avidsportster » Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:06 am

Zelda wrote:For anyone to be questioning it, just points to it being a disgruntled parent or player on this board. Both N. Cass and LaMoure had two girls selected who play six rotations and are tremendous back row players, so those teams seemed to be represented well. I would say that 80 - 90 % of the girls who made the team play six rotations. There were 17 on the tournament team, two more than normal, so maybe there was a tie or something. Whatever the case, to weigh so heavily on individual recognition is just silly. To criticize and say that the defense wasn't represented is totally incorrect as most of the girls making it are studs in the front row and quite mobile in the back row as well. It just makes sense that if you can do both very well that you are the better pick. Now, if on the other hand, you have Jamestown's DS and Libero who are all over the court and make unbelievable digs back to the setter, it wouldn't be a question, they would be on the team. I didn't see any players like that though.


I totally am with you on this. Johnson, Carlson, and Holen were tough in the front row and back row. That Holen kid is only an 8th grader, hope to see them back again to see her progress. I am guessing this year was a great year for Carlson to mentor her. Does anyone know if she has possibilities of growing a few more inches? Her vertical is outstanding.
avidsportster
NDPreps Reserve
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:45 am

Re: 2013 STATE TOURNEY

Postby jellybean » Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:44 am

vb4life wrote:I will not or will I ever call anyone out, the committee made their decision. Just shocked 3 from a 6th place team made it, that never happens. The top teams deserved their players, no doubt about that. Like I stated before, I think a tournament team should recognize all areas of the floor and YES I know hitters play backrow too, but on some of these teams their liberos are a huge part of their success and I believe on N. Cass and Lamoure's team, that they were a big part of that. Everyone sees different aspects of the game of volleyball, I believe, like most sports, that defense is a huge part of it. People on this board could go round and round about it, we all have our opinions. There was also no intent to cut down the girls that made it, they helped their team to state and should be recognized and obviously the committee seen something great in each and every one of you, sometimes thats what makes awards hard, there are a lot of deserving players but only a select few are awarded. Congrats to all players of this years state tournament.


We'll u have been calling out Thompson this whole time, so basically you are calling out that at least one of them didn't belong. So I would assume you think one of their hitters doesn't belong.
jellybean
NDPreps Rookie
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:31 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Volleyball

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest