Class A Legion State Tournament

Class A Legion State Tournament

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:36 pm

CLASS A STATE TOURNAMENT
@ Dickinson

Wednesday, July 27th
G1: E2 Valley City def. W3 Velva 3-0
G2: W1 Bismarck Reps def. E4 West Fargo Aces 6-0
G3: W2 Beulah def. E3 Devils Lake 5-4
G4: E1 Wahpeton def. W4 Dickinson 14-3

Thursday, July 28th
G5: E4 West Fargo Aces def. W3 Velva 6-1
G6: E3 Devils Lake def. W4 Dickinson 8-3
G7: E2 Valley City def. W1 Bismarck Reps 3-0
G8: E1 Wahpeton def. W2 Beulah 4-3

Friday, July 29th
G9: W1 Bismarck Reps def. E3 Devils Lake 7-0
G10: W2 Beulah def. E4 West Fargo Aces 1-0
G11: E2 Valley City def. E1 Wahpeton 7-3

Saturday, July 30th
G12: E1 Wahpeton def. W1 Bismarck Reps 4-2 (8)
G13: E2 Valley City def. W2 Beulah 7-5

Sunday, July 31st
G14: E2 Valley City def. E1 Wahpeton 5-4 (9)
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Re: Class A Legion State Tournament

Postby lovwatchingsports » Mon Aug 01, 2016 12:22 pm

Thanks run for all the info on all games in all the div. Question? Does VC play Carrington to see who goes on to the next tourney?
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Re: Class A Legion State Tournament

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Mon Aug 01, 2016 3:33 pm

lovwatchingsports wrote:Thanks run for all the info on all games in all the div. Question? Does VC play Carrington to see who goes on to the next tourney?


nope...from my understanding Class B teams knew there was only 1 bid for advancing and Class A had that bid. Doesn't seem right since they did a playoff 2 years ago but that's what I heard.

Valley City is ND's representative in Waupun, WI
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Re: Class A Legion State Tournament

Postby alphadawg » Mon Aug 01, 2016 4:29 pm

Last year Carrington and Wapheton both went and Carrington beat Wapheton
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Re: Class A Legion State Tournament

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Mon Aug 01, 2016 4:30 pm

alphadawg wrote:Last year Carrington and Wapheton both went and Carrington beat Wapheton


Last Year: ND was award two bids so one from each class (A & B) qualified.

It seems each year has different bids for each state

Note: I'm only going off what I KNOW...
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Re: Class A Legion State Tournament

Postby Dualsportfan » Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:18 am

3 years, 3 different formats. 2014-Carrington and Wahpeton play in a one game playoff to see who represents ND in the division 2 tourney, 2015-Both Carrington and Wahpeton are invited to the D2 tourney, 2016-only the A winner (Valley City) is invited to the D2 tourney. Valley City will represent ND well. They are playing good baseball, they are well coached and they are a classy bunch of young men. But, if the goal of American Legion baseball is to "promote healthy competition, sportsmanship and good citizenship" how does excluding a state champion that placed 3rd out of 12 teams last year at that tournament, lost to the eventual champion in extra innings in the semi-finals and, most importantly, represented their state with class, help to accomplish those goals? Those young men came back from that tournament last year as better baseball players and better citizens. They created excitement for baseball in their community and they had a new appreciation of the legion organization. Why you wouldn't offer that opportunity to all of your state champions is beyond me. It just seems to go against the mission of the organization. Maybe there is a good reason for the change; if someone knows please enlighten us. Best of luck to Valley City this year...keep it rolling guys.
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Re: Class A Legion State Tournament

Postby HONKER » Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:46 am

Dualsportfan wrote:3 years, 3 different formats. 2014-Carrington and Wahpeton play in a one game playoff to see who represents ND in the division 2 tourney, 2015-Both Carrington and Wahpeton are invited to the D2 tourney, 2016-only the A winner (Valley City) is invited to the D2 tourney. Valley City will represent ND well. They are playing good baseball, they are well coached and they are a classy bunch of young men. But, if the goal of American Legion baseball is to "promote healthy competition, sportsmanship and good citizenship" how does excluding a state champion that placed 3rd out of 12 teams last year at that tournament, lost to the eventual champion in extra innings in the semi-finals and, most importantly, represented their state with class, help to accomplish those goals? Those young men came back from that tournament last year as better baseball players and better citizens. They created excitement for baseball in their community and they had a new appreciation of the legion organization. Why you wouldn't offer that opportunity to all of your state champions is beyond me. It just seems to go against the mission of the organization. Maybe there is a good reason for the change; if someone knows please enlighten us. Best of luck to Valley City this year...keep it rolling guys.

Very well said.
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Re: Class A Legion State Tournament

Postby Rivershark » Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:31 pm

Dualsportfan wrote:3 years, 3 different formats. 2014-Carrington and Wahpeton play in a one game playoff to see who represents ND in the division 2 tourney, 2015-Both Carrington and Wahpeton are invited to the D2 tourney, 2016-only the A winner (Valley City) is invited to the D2 tourney. Valley City will represent ND well. They are playing good baseball, they are well coached and they are a classy bunch of young men. But, if the goal of American Legion baseball is to "promote healthy competition, sportsmanship and good citizenship" how does excluding a state champion that placed 3rd out of 12 teams last year at that tournament, lost to the eventual champion in extra innings in the semi-finals and, most importantly, represented their state with class, help to accomplish those goals? Those young men came back from that tournament last year as better baseball players and better citizens. They created excitement for baseball in their community and they had a new appreciation of the legion organization. Why you wouldn't offer that opportunity to all of your state champions is beyond me. It just seems to go against the mission of the organization. Maybe there is a good reason for the change; if someone knows please enlighten us. Best of luck to Valley City this year...keep it rolling guys.



I don't know who the group is that makes these decisions, but it's a complete joke how the Class "B" teams continue to be left out of the advancing tournaments. I have good reason to believe that anyone of the top 4 Class "B" teams could have beaten Valley City or Wahpeton. The problem not only exists on the Legion level but also on the Babe Ruth level. North Dakota has a 13-15yr. "B" State Tournament, but what team get's to advance to the Midwest Pains 13-15 yr. Tournament, the Bismarck 15 year olds. I'm not saying that smaller towns are better than the Bismarck's, Fargo or Grand Forks, teams, but to exclude them completely takes away the opportunity to have a chance to play in a regional. I know for a fact that there are Class "B" teams that can beat the A teams. So the question is, does Carrington and the other good "B" teams choose to move up to the "A" level to have that opportunity?
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Re: Class A Legion State Tournament

Postby madseason » Tue Aug 02, 2016 7:37 pm

Rivershark wrote:
Dualsportfan wrote:3 years, 3 different formats. 2014-Carrington and Wahpeton play in a one game playoff to see who represents ND in the division 2 tourney, 2015-Both Carrington and Wahpeton are invited to the D2 tourney, 2016-only the A winner (Valley City) is invited to the D2 tourney. Valley City will represent ND well. They are playing good baseball, they are well coached and they are a classy bunch of young men. But, if the goal of American Legion baseball is to "promote healthy competition, sportsmanship and good citizenship" how does excluding a state champion that placed 3rd out of 12 teams last year at that tournament, lost to the eventual champion in extra innings in the semi-finals and, most importantly, represented their state with class, help to accomplish those goals? Those young men came back from that tournament last year as better baseball players and better citizens. They created excitement for baseball in their community and they had a new appreciation of the legion organization. Why you wouldn't offer that opportunity to all of your state champions is beyond me. It just seems to go against the mission of the organization. Maybe there is a good reason for the change; if someone knows please enlighten us. Best of luck to Valley City this year...keep it rolling guys.



I don't know who the group is that makes these decisions, but it's a complete joke how the Class "B" teams continue to be left out of the advancing tournaments. I have good reason to believe that anyone of the top 4 Class "B" teams could have beaten Valley City or Wahpeton. The problem not only exists on the Legion level but also on the Babe Ruth level. North Dakota has a 13-15yr. "B" State Tournament, but what team get's to advance to the Midwest Pains 13-15 yr. Tournament, the Bismarck 15 year olds. I'm not saying that smaller towns are better than the Bismarck's, Fargo or Grand Forks, teams, but to exclude them completely takes away the opportunity to have a chance to play in a regional. I know for a fact that there are Class "B" teams that can beat the A teams. So the question is, does Carrington and the other good "B" teams choose to move up to the "A" level to have that opportunity?
I would put money on it that Carrington would beat Valley City. They almost won the regional last year and they pretty much have everyone back this year. Total BS that they are not getting a chance IMO. Should have a playoff between the two or something.
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Re: Class A Legion State Tournament

Postby NodakQ2 » Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:29 pm

I don't know whether Carrington would beat VC or not, but I do know they beat two AA teams this year (Jamestown and Fargo Post 400) and had two competitive games with Wyoming AA runner up Gillette. So I think they'd hold their own in the 'A' Regional again this year. Madseason is right...Carrington ended up third in the Central Plains Regional last year defeating Wahpeton and losing by one in extra innings in the semi final to the eventual champion. (7 starters returned this year) Sad they don't even get a chance this year. Crazy it has been three different scenarios for advancement each of the last three years.

Best of luck in the regional VC. You are playing great ball and from what everyone says, you're a great bunch. Keep it up through the Regional.
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Re: Class A Legion State Tournament

Postby lovwatchingsports » Wed Aug 03, 2016 11:49 am

Wonder if they knew this before the season started?
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Re: Class A Legion State Tournament

Postby NDPREP » Wed Aug 03, 2016 12:54 pm

Welcome to the brain trust that is Legion leadership inside and outside of this state when it comes to baseball. Also the same organization that won't change the re-entry rule (some may call it a strategy for pinch hitting, but a lot of coaches, during the high school season, use it to get younger players game time with still being able to bring the starter back if the other team makes a run.)
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Re: Class A Legion State Tournament

Postby Dualsportfan » Wed Aug 03, 2016 2:42 pm

Sadly the decision to exclude the B champion this year was made just prior to this baseball season...well after Carrington faired so well in the division 2 tournament last year. It's almost as if the legion representatives (I'm guessing representing larger towns) sat around saying "Well, we can't let that happen again."
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Re: Class A Legion State Tournament

Postby B-oldtimer » Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:59 am

I guess I don't see it why they would exclude class b again this year. Like look at last year Carrington representing class b did very well at the regional tournament. I will bet you the reason is that its hard to hold regional tournament with extra teams and get it in short period of time you'll get for answer but is that the truth or is it politics. There could be some truth in this but then why don't they at least give class b a shot at going by playing against class a. Here politics starts at state level if class b teams does beat class a team this would mean all larger towns would not get representative at the regional. We can't have that so logical solution is smaller class b team just doesn't get a chance. I would think somebody would think as organization that has such historic ideals of teaching young boys or men on values to play the game would respond to this with something that is fair and give a reason to all that compete why they came up with this plan.

Also I would like to get into the age limitation changes that have happened in last couple of years. With the current rule its now possible play if your 18 after the first of the year so to speak this gives roughly half kids right to play when there 19 years of age. But for other kids that turned 19 before the first of year and were 18 when they finished legion this year are to old to play. I understand the rule on limiting who play's because of age but I don't get it that when making this rule basically your allowing half group of age group to let them play additional year but other half not because of when they were born. I guess in my mind your rule is not fair across the board. My feeling is date should be set at end of legion season and you can argue what ever how old you want to set the date but that way whole age group gets equal treatment. This would mean all would get to play not just half. I would appreciate other peoples opinion on this. I know it effects my son because group he has played with and has been in same grade in school roughly half are going to get to play next year and my son in other half doesn't get to play next year. Like he says theres only couple of months different in there ages and he started school by state rules for when you start school so he wasn't held back.
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Re: Class A Legion State Tournament

Postby Rivershark » Wed Aug 10, 2016 3:58 pm

Nothing is going to happen until more people start speaking up. In summer baseball, only a hand full of Class "B" programs would be able to compete at that level. If you want to advance, your only option would be to move up which I think a few Class "b" programs are considering. When my boy's were in 12U we registered to play in the State Class "A" Tournament in Wahpeton and was laughed at. They said towns your size don't play in these tournaments. Well needless to say, we took 3rd place out of 13 teams. I would encourage any class "B" program that has the numbers to play against the bigger towns. It only makes your kids better and you might be surprised.
Last edited by Rivershark on Wed Aug 10, 2016 11:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Class A Legion State Tournament

Postby madseason » Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:51 pm

I agree with B-oldtimer especially on the age requirement. If you are 18 say a week after the season ends you can play next year! Everyone will still be 19 or under. Great idea. Plus that would help numbers a little bit.
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Re: Class A Legion State Tournament

Postby madseason » Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:57 pm

Pretty simple fix to this problem. If they can't take our B Champs and A champs. The A and b Champs have a playoff. 3 game series to see who goes. Then the best team will represent ND IMO!
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Re: Class A Legion State Tournament

Postby hook » Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:24 am

I am interested to know if more class B teams will be moving up to class A so they can play in an advancing tournament. There are plenty of good programs that could make a run and make the class A better as a league. I would say that if you plug the top 5 class B teams into Class A they would do great and really make the class A the states most talented pool of ball players. What are everyone's thoughts on who would be legitimate teams to move up? the obvious ones to me would be Carrington and Kindred just based on the fact the are the biggest enrollments in class B and have some very good teams coming down the pipe.
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Re: Class A Legion State Tournament

Postby B-oldtimer » Sat Aug 13, 2016 12:16 am

I don't understand this attitude of trying to kill class b and also taking all incentive of playing for something. If these teams you are mentioning have large enough enrollments then yes they should be playing up a class but what your saying is why not take the best programs out of b and move them up to class a. This would be same for A by taking the best programs and moving them up to double A what would that do the a field. If national American legion doesn't want to provide regional opportunity for class b to play in regional then our state should do so by letting them compete against the class a representative. What would be crime in doing this if class b does win and beats state class a it still would be best for North Dakota in that we would have our best representative going to the regional. Explain to me why this would be unfair or what would be down side of doing this. Small towns every so often do develop good teams when they have exceptional number of athletes and few very talented athletes that makes for very good team. When this happens they can play with anybody but it doesn't happen every year for each small town but it does happen more frequently when considering all small class b towns that one of them might have this happen. Also these teams may take some time to get there so there records may not indicate they have reach this level of play but end of season and post season play often it does with there on field performances. I think this is what is frustrating to larger towns in that their players may have had more consistent play through the season but they can be beat by this small town with average record and smaller numbers they don't understand why they had to play them in the first place being class below them. The reality is that these small town teams sometimes have much more upside potential than some larger towns because all these kids needed was more playing time and playing together for season because these kids play multiple sports and very likely in small town baseball has least amount of off season training of the sports in small towns. Also think if American legion in the state should like this because I think it would draw more interest by public on watching baseball. Also if they can get American legion state tournaments televised like this year fro class b I think could become more interest by public. People in this state like watching our young kids compete in sports.
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Re: Class A Legion State Tournament

Postby Rivershark » Sat Aug 13, 2016 1:14 am

I think if you looked at the scores of Legion games between the Class B and Class A over the last couple years, you would be surprised. You can even look at the State "B" Babe Ruth Tournament, the three towns with Class "A" Legion teams all exited the tournament early.
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Re: Class A Legion State Tournament

Postby NodakQ2 » Sat Aug 13, 2016 8:17 am

Interesting take on the Babe Ruth State Tourney Rivershark. Never thought of that but you are correct. In the end it was Park River, Carrington, Mohall and Thompson. Early exits to the three Class "A" teams Beulah, Grafton and Casselton. Interesting...

At a minimum there should be a 3 game playoff between the Class A and Class B team for advancement.
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