2017 Legion Baseball

Re: 2017 Legion Baseball

Postby Bison-Vikes #1 » Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:42 am

From The American Legion Website:

To play:

Contact your local Legion post. Look for the address and phone number in the local White Pages or at www.legion.org/baseball. Click on "Find a Post" and fill in your city, state and ZIP code. Players can only sign up for the post that is the shortest driving distance from their residence.

However, some exceptions exist. A player whose parents are living separately can declare either parent’s home as his main residence. Additionally, a player who is attending a private school has the option of enrolling with the post closest to his school; in this situation, a Team Declaration Form (Form 77) must be filled out.

Players who are cut from a team, or try out but don't make the roster, can play for the post that is the next-shortest driving distance from their residence. If a player doesn't make that team, he can try out with the next-closest post. He can continue until he finds a team to join.
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Re: 2017 Legion Baseball

Postby madseason » Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:20 pm

Does anyone have the Legion standings for class B and A? I'm bummed that we don't have schedule and scores for Legion baseball on this site.
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Re: 2017 Legion Baseball

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:56 pm

Hard enough to get the high school schedules, changes, scores reported, etc; tournament time there will be more updates and such as those dates are solidified already and scores will be reported.
Email ND HS Scores to: ndhsscores at yahoo
Follow ND HS Scores (NDScores) on Twitter
Find Scores/Schedules/Standings: http://www.northdakota-scores.net
THANKS!
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Re: 2017 Legion Baseball

Postby madseason » Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:14 pm

Legion BB used to be the step to the next level? Baseball is a sport that is forgotten. SAD!
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Re: 2017 Legion Baseball

Postby madseason » Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:18 pm

Run4Fun2009 wrote:Hard enough to get the high school schedules, changes, scores reported, etc; tournament time there will be more updates and such as those dates are solidified already and scores will be reported.

Thank you for all you do. You do a great job with this site. :D
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Re: 2017 Legion Baseball

Postby Bison-Vikes #1 » Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:51 am

This website follows Northeast Region:

http://www.myborderland.com/american-le ... eball.html
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Re: 2017 Legion Baseball

Postby Flip » Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:20 pm

Bison-Vikes #1 wrote:This website follows Northeast Region:

http://www.myborderland.com/american-le ... eball.html

whoa what's up with Hatton? they usually have a strong program.

how many games does a normal legion team play in a summer? My last 3 years (eons ago) we played 43, 55, and 47 games. We didn't have HS baseball.
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Re: 2017 Legion Baseball

Postby NodakQ2 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:27 pm

Flip wrote:
Bison-Vikes #1 wrote:This website follows Northeast Region:

http://www.myborderland.com/american-le ... eball.html

whoa what's up with Hatton? they usually have a strong program.

how many games does a normal legion team play in a summer? My last 3 years (eons ago) we played 43, 55, and 47 games. We didn't have HS baseball.


I think most Class B schools play 20-30 games in the summer, especially coming off HS ball. I think the larger programs play in excess of 50. Also, the teams that were in the State HS tourney usually play a few less Legion games as other teams are playing legion games while the HS teams are still playing their way through Regionals and State. (this can easily account for 10 lost legion games or more)
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Re: 2017 Legion Baseball

Postby kedock » Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:14 am

There are 4 items that really need to be discussed/changed for next year. My perspective on these things comes as the coach of the Mayville Legion team.

1) Pitch count restrictions for regional/state tournament play. I'm going to start by saying the regular season needed these changes. It helps force you to develop your 4th/5th/6th pitchers instead of relying on two main guys the whole year. However, come the tournament time, it takes away from the actual game of baseball. If a pitcher is up 0-2, the obvious recommendation is to throw pitches that make a batter chase or maybe even "waste" a pitch up at their shoulders to change the batter's eye level for the next pitch. With pitch counts, the new recommendation is to throw another strike. As a coach, give me X number of innings for the tournament and trust that I know what's best for my player's health. I'm not going to throw a guy back to back days if he throws 120, but to pitch the first day and be done for the tournament is kind of harsh for a kid who has built up his arm strength over the prior 8 weeks to prepare for the tournament.
2) Regions need to be addressed. Someone explain to me how the North East and Central Regions were set up. Seriously, I'll wait. Keeping the same 16 teams, the regions should be Northeast (Minto, Thompson, Hatton, Mayville, Hillsboro, Hope, Gardner, and Harwood) and Central (Langdon, Cando, Harvey, New Rockford, Carrington, Kidder County, Nelson County, and Larimore). This approach would save over 3500 miles. If you moved Larimore to the Northeast and stayed with a 9/7 split, you would actually save over 4600 miles. You could even send Harwood to the southeast (where they want to be) since they only had 7 down there and save even more miles! These condensed regions would also allow for much better media coverage. It is so obvious to the coaches, why is it so hard for the state to see this? The only downfall is this will mean Mayville, Hillsboro, Hope, Gardner, and Harwood would be playing for 1 state spot for the 3rd year in a row in 2018 as the Northeast hosts next year.
3) Host team taking one of two spots from a region. Kidder County making the state tournament was a joke this year. The fact they finished 3rd/4th at state shows the quality of play in the Central Region this year as they were the 6th seed going into the tournament and the first team eliminated (granted they almost beat us in round one, but the point still stands). Somehow this needs to change.
4) State tournament should be 10 teams going. Host team, prior year state champ, and 2 from each region not already "granted" a spot. Yes, in some extremely rare years this would mean 4 teams from region make it, but this approach rewards regions that play good ball and who are going to put in the extra effort to host the tournament instead of punishing the region by not sending it's two best. Have all four 2-seeds play the "play-in games" leaving 8 teams after the play-in games. Seed the 4 1-seeds and have the top two play against the play-in winners (making sure there isn't a same region rematch), have the 3-seed play the host team, and the 4-seed play the prior year state champ. This set up would prevent the play-in problem that occurred in Class AA tourney this year as well.

I'm not including this as one the "needs addressed" as it is still heavily debated, but figured I'd include it as a subnote. There are quite a few class B coaches that want to go back to a 2-class system. The Kindreds, Park Rivers, Graftons, etc. aren't that big of a difference to scare away most Class B teams. Yes, they still have an advantage most of the time, but big deal. If the Class AA teams need a tourney for their Junior Legion teams, make one that rotates between the cities. Do we need to create another class just to make sure they have a place to play? If that's the case, create a few more Fargo, Bismarck, etc. teams. I'm playing with 13 year olds on my team and making it work.....
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Re: 2017 Legion Baseball

Postby Tigger » Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:57 am

I think I disagree with almost everything you said, but I'll answer you in order.

1) I think that ALB should have stuck with the innings rule for pitching. Since they didn't, I support them sticking with the regular season rules in the tournaments. It's a good test for all that extra pitching being developed.

2) Regions do need to be addressed. There is no really fair way to do it in the current setup because there aren't enough teams to make travel fair for everyone. I don't think one region should be accommodated if the other three still get pounded on travel (Kidder really doesn't fit in the east at all).

3) Host teams do not belong at state unless they qualify. It's nice for attendance but bad for the game. Fortunately, Class B made it to this year before a team was cost a spot because of it (Hillsboro-Central Valley). Kidder County finishing in the final four this year I think is more a product of a weak western half of the state. I am not picking on Kidder County. I believe that they likely would have qualified out of the West region if they had not been realigned to the Central for this year.

4) State tournaments should be 8 qualifiers. Two teams from each region. I think that the old district/region format should be brought back to Class B along with all the Class A/Junior teams being reabsorbed by Class B. Two teams from each district go to the regional with the top two teams from the region going to state. State would be rotated between "Class A" and "Class B" cities because the bigger cities would actually have teams competing. I threw a realignment plan together in 15 minutes using the 56 teams listed on ndlegion.org for Class A/B from this year. Naturally, you could edit a bit for a better fit or more teams being added.

Region 1
cando
harvey
langdon
bottineau
devils lake
new rockford
carrington

minto
park river
thompson
larimore
nelson county
grand forks
grafton

Region 2
hatton
gardner
harwood
hillsboro
hope-finley
mayville
fargo jets

casselton
fargo bombers
west fargo
wahpeton
kindred
fargo 400
fairmount-hankinson

Region 3
ellendale
lidgerwood
oakes
enderlin
lamoure
lisbon
valley city

wishek-linton
kidder county
bismarck reps
bismarck caps
hazen
beulah
washburn


Region 4
minot
surrey
burlington
stanley
garrison
velva
renville county

dickinson
hettinger
watford city
williston
crosby
tioga
mandan
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Re: 2017 Legion Baseball

Postby kedock » Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:43 pm

1) My only thing with having limited options in regionals/state is what product are you trying to display come tourney time? Do you want the best possible baseball out there or do you just want an offensive display? It baffles me how MLB adjusts their pitching for the postseason and how high school adjusts for the postseason, but not Legion ball? At least meet in the middle and use the NDHSAA rules for pitch counts.
2) You are just going to dismiss the miles saved in my proposal? If you put 8 teams in both the Central and North East region, 13 of the 16 teams would average less miles per trip. If you slide Larimore into the North East and make it 9 vs 7, 14 of the 16 teams would be averaging less miles per trip. How can you come out and confidently say Regions do not need to be addressed? Kidder was put into the region that Carrington and New Rockford were in and to be honest, that's probably where they belonged as those are their closest opponents. The problem is you just added a team 150 miles away from me (and I'm not even the longest trip) at the expense of a team 15 miles away from me. How does it not make sense to save 3500 or 4600 miles?
EDIT - After looking at your proposal more closely, you realign some of the outlier teams there, but don't think there is a problem with strictly Class B? EDIT Done
3 & 4) I agree with you that host teams should have to earn their way, but that rule is not changing. The host team will ALWAYS represent a tournament. My proposal is simply a way to make the best out of a bad situation. You add two extra games to a tournament with very little downside - cost being the only one, but that should be made up by the home team attendance and the extra teams in your region representing the region. 3 teams from the host region should help attendance.

I'm not going to touch a lot on the Class A and B consolidation because it's not likely to happen. I mostly agree with your assessment there with the exception of the junior legion teams. I have very little interest in playing in the same conference as a Fargo team especially a junior legion program. I'd much rather play a Fargo suburb team - keep those Class AA cities in their own region.
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Re: 2017 Legion Baseball

Postby Tigger » Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:18 pm

1) I'll tackle this one in reverse order. You can't really use MLB because there are no limits on pitching, and there is more rest between games/series. You do however see guys pitch on "short rest" all the time when a series is on the line. The NDHSAA rules don't help for the ALB setup either because there are no 3 day Legion tourneys:

(from NDHSAA.com)
Regular Season
*120 daily pitch maximum
Pitches Days Rest
0-30 0
31-45 1
46-60 2
61-75 3
76-120 4
Postseason (for 3 consecutive day tournaments)
*120 daily pitch maximum
*135 tournament maximum
Pitches Days Rest
0-45 0
46-90 1
91-120 2
Other Info

8. Postseason pitch counts will be used for State and Region Tournaments that are scheduled entirely over 3 consecutive days. For all other tournament formats regular season pitch count rules apply.

In fact, the pitch counts and days rest are exactly the same for Senior Legion baseball and ND high school baseball for a 4 or 5 day tourney (ND Legion Baseball rule book last page used for reference). Junior teams are at a disadvantage because they are capped at 105 pitches by rule. As for the best possible baseball, look at the region tournament scores this year. There are blowouts on day 1 (pitching should be fresh) all the way through. The region tournaments have always had that problem. The great teams still win (look at Carrington's path through the Central), but since they are usually deeper in pitching anyway they now have more of an advantage. The last two days of the State B Tournament were great. Carrington probably wishes they had the old rules. Nelson County threw about everything they had (I think they broke the appearances rule on the last day), and Thompson was fortunate that they could call on a fresh Calen Schwabe in the end.

2) It's not that I don't agree with some of what you said, but I dismiss the current setup. I think it would be great to save miles for teams (and the expense too), but there's no fair way to do it with the current Class B setup. It would be great for the teams that make up Region 2 in high school to make up a region in the summer (I would prefer it), but unless you have a Legionnaire with some power in your pocket it's probably not going to happen. Mayville could have it much worse. They are pretty close to Hillsboro, Hope, Gardner, and Harwood. Carrington, New Rockford, and especially Kidder are a ways out there, but playing a home and home with the close teams and alternating years traveling to the far ones for a double-header isn't a huge ask compared to what some teams have to deal with. By the way, under the final version of the old district/region system Hope was the closest league opponent for Mayville (Fargo/West Fargo was the farthest).

3/4) The host team doesn't work anymore. It's only been around for around a decade, so why not get rid of it. I accepted it when it was first used because the state went from 8 to 7 sections to accommodate the change, but I hate to deprive a team that has a legitimate claim to a state tourney spot their chance to go. It's been a while, but I can't remember hearing that state tourney attendance was hurting before the rule was put into place.

The two class system worked fine into the 2000s. I was a fan of the junior teams going off on their own whenever that was (2007ish?). I wish they had done it when the age restrictions were changed in 2002 because a junior team like Fargo would have a lot more 17 year olds eligible for an extra year than a Class B town would have 19 year olds eligible (if any). I think the time has come to go back. Is the 3rd, 4th, or 5th Legion team in Fargo really that scary to a good Class B team? Are the good Class A teams that much better than Class B? If I recall, Thompson and Park River played for the high school title in May, and Thompson and Park River each won a state Legion title this summer. And, I believe it was Thompson who lasted longer in the D2 regional.

While we're fixing baseball, can I say that I'd like high school and Babe Ruth to move to a more unified system? I think high school should use the Region 1 format which is single elim until the championship which is 2 of 3. To skirt the pitching rules, I'd start the single elim on the Thursday 2 weeks before state begins. The region championship would begin the next Thursday allowing everyone to have the full complement of pitching available to start the title series. Teams could start Legion ball as they are eliminated. Babe Ruth should have 7 even districts that all end their tournaments at the same time using the same format. It's pretty odd that most teams qualify before region Legion, but then you have 2 leagues up north playing a best of three after the region Legion tourney to determine which one gets to go to state.
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Re: 2017 Legion Baseball

Postby Tigger » Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:47 pm

If I was limited to the current 32 teams listed on ndlegion.org, here is what I would do. It is far from perfect. I can't get around the fact that Kidder County has to go somewhere, and the western 2/3 of the state doesn't have enough teams to make travel easy. I would split each region in half. At tournament time, the whole region gets together and #1 from one side plays #4 from the other, etc.

North Region
1) Harvey, Carrington, New Rockford, Nelson County
2) Langdon, Minto, Cando, Larimore

South Region
1) Lidgerwood, Fairmount, Lisbon, Oakes
2) Kidder County, LaMoure, Ellendale, Wishek-Linton

East Region
1) Hatton, Thompson, Hillsboro, Mayville
2) Hope-Finley, Gardner, Harwood, Enderlin

West Region
1) Tioga, Stanley, Crosby, Renville County
2) Burlington, Bottineau, Garrison, Hazen
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Re: 2017 Legion Baseball

Postby Rivershark » Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:43 am

Tigger wrote:
The two class system worked fine into the 2000s. I was a fan of the junior teams going off on their own whenever that was (2007ish?). I wish they had done it when the age restrictions were changed in 2002 because a junior team like Fargo would have a lot more 17 year olds eligible for an extra year than a Class B town would have 19 year olds eligible (if any). I think the time has come to go back. Is the 3rd, 4th, or 5th Legion team in Fargo really that scary to a good Class B team? Are the good Class A teams that much better than Class B? If I recall, Thompson and Park River played for the high school title in May, and Thompson and Park River each won a state Legion title this summer. And, I believe it was Thompson who lasted longer in the D2 regional.


I agree with you that there isn't a big difference between some of the Class A teams and Class B teams. This year you could have taken the top 4 teams from each class and had a legitimate state tournament. As for comparing Park River and Thompson, the two teams did play each other this summer and Park River came out on top again, 8-4. As for the D2 Regional, Thompson had the easier bracket and Park River was playing without one of their top players. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that some of the top Class B teams could have beaten some of the AA teams this year. Park River lost by one run to the State AA double champs in a game that they very well should have one.
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Re: 2017 Legion Baseball

Postby kedock » Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:10 am

Tigger - I think we are actually on the same page (with the exception of pitch counts), just different views on if things could be changed.

For pitch counts, I can't get around the fact that if I pitched a guy for 91 pitches the first day, he's done for the tourney. 76 pitches on the second day, he's done for the tourney. I didn't have a problem with the actual execution of the rules as stated as I was set up well for our tourney, the bats just died out at the wrong time, but that's baseball. The first day I pitched two guys 45 pitches and was ready with my day two pitchers to pitch 30 pitches on day one. How is that baseball? You set up a system like that, you are asking for guys to try and find a loophole.

Host team, I'm with you, get rid of it if we could. I just don't think it's possible, so I was coming up with a way to help a bad system.

As for regions, your setup is fine except you are increasing mileage for 11 while saving miles for 13 teams. You do save 2500 miles overall, but if you aren't going to address the West, you might as well leave the southeast alone as they had the least number of miles per region even before Fairmount-Hankinson and Lidgerwood combined. My proposal (assuming the southeast stayed at the 8 listed) took the region miles from 9848/9916/7935/11528 to 7962/7132/7935/11528 - balancing out the 3 regions not named West - whiles yours was 9909/9920/5332/11528. I'd love to have the region you proposed as mine would be that 5332, but it makes more sense to save miles for more teams. I'd gladly concede the other points of interest if this one is addressed to a point that makes sense for most teams.
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Re: 2017 Legion Baseball

Postby jthom43 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:04 pm

Kedock, Kidder County played the sectional tourney with only one good arm, and two impact players missing. If you watched how they played the state tournament, they were at as high of a level as everyone else. It was simply a mindset.
However, I completely agree with your pitch count idea. The inning limit is a concept that should be brought back for tourney time. Maybe you should consider pitching that idea?
Anyways, cheers, have a great day!
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Re: 2017 Legion Baseball

Postby pakkyzoo » Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:27 pm

jthom43 wrote:Kedock, Kidder County played the sectional tourney with only one good arm, and two impact players missing. If you watched how they played the state tournament, they were at as high of a level as everyone else. It was simply a mindset.
However, I completely agree with your pitch count idea. The inning limit is a concept that should be brought back for tourney time. Maybe you should consider pitching that idea?
Anyways, cheers, have a great day!

I agree with Kidder played their best 4 games of the year at state. They had a lot of factors in their favor: home field advantage, great first round matchup, and a full squad. But they shouldn't of been there, going 0-2 in Regional Tournament doesn't qualify a state tournament team to me. I ask you, if Kidder wouldn't of had the automatic bid would those players have missed regionals? I feel like having a host team leaves better quality teams at home and the tournament quality is worse.

All in all, I don't mind the host team. I just hate that it leaves better teams at home. As a player, would you rather sleep on a floor of a host family? Or stay in a bigger city with a better venue and hospitality options?
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Re: 2017 Legion Baseball

Postby NDPREP » Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:36 pm

Legion doesn't normally sleep at host families they usually do hotels, not sure if they did in Steele this year? But I'll tell you right now the kids would rather sleep on the floor, that's all I would hear back from State Babe Ruth is how much fun they had at the host families houses. They love that aspect of Babe Ruth.
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Re: 2017 Legion Baseball

Postby pakkyzoo » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:21 pm

NDPREP wrote:Legion doesn't normally sleep at host families they usually do hotels, not sure if they did in Steele this year? But I'll tell you right now the kids would rather sleep on the floor, that's all I would hear back from State Babe Ruth is how much fun they had at the host families houses. They love that aspect of Babe Ruth.

Your also dealing with a totally different age group. Babe Ruth you have 13-15 year olds that can't drive or do much. They are still young. Legion you have 19 year olds who have been living on their own for a year. They don't want to sleep on a floor. I coached Babe Ruth for 7 years and Legion for 10. Totally different mind set.
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Re: 2017 Legion Baseball

Postby pakkyzoo » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:52 am

NDPREP wrote:Legion doesn't normally sleep at host families they usually do hotels, not sure if they did in Steele this year? But I'll tell you right now the kids would rather sleep on the floor, that's all I would hear back from State Babe Ruth is how much fun they had at the host families houses. They love that aspect of Babe Ruth.

This year in Steele, Thompson, NC, and Enderlin I know all stayed in hotels. Carrington slept at the principal or superintendent's house.

3 years ago in Langdon I know teams were put up on floors. I know many teams had host families or stayed in churches.

It comes down to hospitality for players, parents, and fans. Some of class B towns don't provide much. Steele was nice for example because Bismarck was close. But Langdon for example has two hotels and thats it. LaMoure has one smaller hotel. I know teams camped, or stayed at surrounding communities that had hotel space.

I just feel it doesn't do justice to the "state tournament." I have discussed this with a few other coaches from the area.
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Re: 2017 Legion Baseball

Postby NDPREP » Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:40 pm

I for one enjoy the smaller town state tourneys I go to Fargo/Grand Forks/Bismarck/Minot/Jamestown for enough state tournaments. I've been to some really nice smaller towns that have had really good state tournaments, lack of hotels definitely poses a problems for a lot of them though, but that needs to be taken into account by the Legion selection committee.
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Re: 2017 Legion Baseball

Postby B-oldtimer » Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:46 am

The class b state legion tournament always has had host families where the players for each of the teams have stayed over the years. If you ask the players of teams that have went to state that has always been something special. These families usually go out of there way by providing treats and meals and things to entertain these kids when they are not playing baseball. Also the host town usually has opening day feed for all teams and parents to create family atmosphere for the tournament. Also these small towns have diamond groomed to look as nice as possible, have ceremonies for the games, and well attended games so these kids are playing in front of crowd of people. If these games were played in bigger venue a lot of things that make state tournament special would not happen. Also another reason for host families is this does free up hotel room space for parents and fans of various teams. Langdon you mentioned does only have to two hotels but there are several motels within 30 minutes of Langdon not much different than if you stayed in Fargo had travel across town to get to the game. All I know is that these small towns do a lot to make the state tournament special time for participants and do appreciate being able to host this tournament.
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Re: 2017 Legion Baseball

Postby kedock » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:02 am

jthom43 wrote:Kedock, Kidder County played the sectional tourney with only one good arm, and two impact players missing. If you watched how they played the state tournament, they were at as high of a level as everyone else. It was simply a mindset.
However, I completely agree with your pitch count idea. The inning limit is a concept that should be brought back for tourney time. Maybe you should consider pitching that idea?
Anyways, cheers, have a great day!


I completely agree that the team that played at state was not the team that played in the sectional tournament. I was down multiple key players as well but we did the best we could. I'm by no means saying Kidder County was a bad team - they split with us in the regular season and took us to the ropes in the sectional tournament. HOWEVER, HCV swept them and beat us twice in the sectional tourney, so trying to convince HCV that they didn't belong in state is a very hard sell.

I honestly don't know what the right decision is. The proposal I stated earlier isn't fool-proof either and has some flaws, so I don't have all the answers.

As for talking to the state, I have brought up each of these ideas with a state rep already, so we'll see if any of them has some legs. I honestly think the pitch count portion would be the hardest to change back despite the hate for it. It would be really hard to convince the state to reverse a decision that was made to increase player safety.
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Re: 2017 Legion Baseball

Postby kedock » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:04 am

Any idea what changes they are talking about with this post on Facebook?

North Dakota American Legion Baseball
1 hr ·

Chairman Jake Raile and Vice-Chairman Russ Kroshus were at National Headquarters in Indianapolis this past wekend for the annual Baseball Chairman's Conference. The Chairmen of all 50 States spent several days forming reccomendations for the National Baseball Committee to submit to leadership that will set the course for the future of American Legion Baseball. If these ideas meet the approval of the Americanism Commission and the National Executive Committee in their October meetings, there will me some major changes in the program beginning in 2018. Stay tuned for updates as these decisions are made....
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