North Dakota Preps

#50mandan wrote:is effertz really getting looked at by und?

I would hope UND wouldnt waste their time looking at this kid. He is tall ill give that to him, but he is slow and uncoordinated. From what i saw he wasnt that good.

#50mandan wrote:is effertz really getting looked at by und?

i was wondering the same thing

i agree, why would UND look at a guy who wasnt even on wda honorable mention?

ndman wrote:

#50mandan wrote:is effertz really getting looked at by und?

I would hope UND wouldnt waste their time looking at this kid. He is tall ill give that to him, but he is slow and uncoordinated. From what i saw he wasnt that good.

truballa4life wrote:i agree, why would UND look at a guy who wasnt even on wda honorable mention?

ndman wrote:

#50mandan wrote:is effertz really getting looked at by und?

I would hope UND wouldnt waste their time looking at this kid. He is tall ill give that to him, but he is slow and uncoordinated. From what i saw he wasnt that good.

You can always develop speed, and coordination, but cant really make somebody taller. Sometimes somebodys physical attributes are good enough where the coaches think they can develop the rest of him. Just my opinion

I wouldnt say at 18-19 you can develop spped, you can improve it slightly but if God didnt give it you its not gonna be a significant improvement. Especially with the speed of the DB's UND will face in a D-1 schedule

DWeigs wrote:

truballa4life wrote:i agree, why would UND look at a guy who wasnt even on wda honorable mention?

ndman wrote:

#50mandan wrote:is effertz really getting looked at by und?

I would hope UND wouldnt waste their time looking at this kid. He is tall ill give that to him, but he is slow and uncoordinated. From what i saw he wasnt that good.

You can always develop speed, and coordination, but cant really make somebody taller. Sometimes somebodys physical attributes are good enough where the coaches think they can develop the rest of him. Just my opinion

You can't develop or teach speed, it's a god-given talent

Whats the purpose of sports acceleration and other programs? I know you cant develop it by a lot but you can still develop it.

I have no idea to what degree, if any, UND is recruiting Effertz, but if they are I suspect it's because a 6'8" kid who can catch the ball and is coordinated enough to have qualified for state in the triple jump could possibly put on 40 pounds or so and develop into a decent tight end. I've never seen the kid play, but he sounds somewhat similar to Paul Hoplin, who probably would have gone to UND for football had he not gotten a track scholarship to Minnesota.

It is truly a miracle that colleges around the country have managed to have any measure of success scouting or recruiting without the help of such brilliant talent analysts as #50mandan, ndman, Ming01 and truballa4life. For literally decades, colleges have been running around with the ridiculous notion that recruits would continue to develop talent AFTER they finished high school. What fools!! If they only had the vision of this corp of analysts, they would know that a players skill set is CLEARLY defined and certainly would never progress once they reach college.

I am also glad that MIng and Number7 have shared their infinite wisdom regarding athletic training. Again, so much wasted energy could have been saved if only training programs around the country would realize that speed and coordination can never be changed once you reach that magic age of 18-19. And think, the idiots at Frappier Acceleration have the nerve to claim otherwise!! What could they possibly know about training?!? They even go as far as to GUARANTEE a 50% increase in foot speed and agility, and a .2 decrease in 40 yard dash time!!! I bet they never make any money.

Or maybe... just maybe... the people that scout, recruit, and train college athletes know a slight bit more about the whole process than our resident experts. And maybe, just maybe, the one single attribute that you absolutely can't teach, train, or develop..... is height.

walter wrote:It is truly a miracle that colleges around the country have managed to have any measure of success scouting or recruiting without the help of such brilliant talent analysts as #50mandan, ndman, Ming01 and truballa4life. For literally decades, colleges have been running around with the ridiculous notion that recruits would continue to develop talent AFTER they finished high school. What fools!! If they only had the vision of this corp of analysts, they would know that a players skill set is CLEARLY defined and certainly would never progress once they reach college.

I am also glad that MIng and Number7 have shared their infinite wisdom regarding athletic training. Again, so much wasted energy could have been saved if only training programs around the country would realize that speed and coordination can never be changed once you reach that magic age of 18-19. And think, the idiots at Frappier Acceleration have the nerve to claim otherwise!! What could they possibly know about training?!? They even go as far as to GUARANTEE a 50% increase in foot speed and agility, and a .2 decrease in 40 yard dash time!!! I bet they never make any money.

Or maybe... just maybe... the people that scout, recruit, and train college athletes know a slight bit more about the whole process than our resident experts. And maybe, just maybe, the one single attribute that you absolutely can't teach, train, or develop..... is height.

I am insulted by your comments. How dare you insult me. Sorry, maybe I should have said speed is 90% god-given talent and maybe just nearly 10% can be taught. Yeah, Frappier can help you with technique and training but all the technique and hard work in the world might not make Brooks Bollinger faster than Adrian Petersons mom. Technique and training can only go so far and all the speed in the world cannot overcome genetics.

walter wrote:It is truly a miracle that colleges around the country have managed to have any measure of success scouting or recruiting without the help of such brilliant talent analysts as #50mandan, ndman, Ming01 and truballa4life. For literally decades, colleges have been running around with the ridiculous notion that recruits would continue to develop talent AFTER they finished high school. What fools!! If they only had the vision of this corp of analysts, they would know that a players skill set is CLEARLY defined and certainly would never progress once they reach college.

I am also glad that MIng and Number7 have shared their infinite wisdom regarding athletic training. Again, so much wasted energy could have been saved if only training programs around the country would realize that speed and coordination can never be changed once you reach that magic age of 18-19. And think, the idiots at Frappier Acceleration have the nerve to claim otherwise!! What could they possibly know about training?!? They even go as far as to GUARANTEE a 50% increase in foot speed and agility, and a .2 decrease in 40 yard dash time!!! I bet they never make any money.

Or maybe... just maybe... the people that scout, recruit, and train college athletes know a slight bit more about the whole process than our resident experts. And maybe, just maybe, the one single attribute that you absolutely can't teach, train, or develop..... is height.

Walter, alls i wanted to know is if the kid was gettin recruited by und, but now im a brilliantly talented analyst? If he is, congrats to him, they are going D1 and it would be sweet to have someone from bismarck be on that team since weston is now done, but do u think i could be an analyst?

Ming01 wrote:

DWeigs wrote:

truballa4life wrote:i agree, why would UND look at a guy who wasnt even on wda honorable mention?

ndman wrote:

#50mandan wrote:is effertz really getting looked at by und?

I would hope UND wouldnt waste their time looking at this kid. He is tall ill give that to him, but he is slow and uncoordinated. From what i saw he wasnt that good.

You can always develop speed, and coordination, but cant really make somebody taller. Sometimes somebodys physical attributes are good enough where the coaches think they can develop the rest of him. Just my opinion

You can't develop or teach speed, it's a god-given talent

I wished my coaches believe this, he would not have had us do all those dang crushers and windsprints, we could have just walked onto the field with our "god given talents" and got killed.

Crushers and windsprints are more for endurance and conditioning. The faster kids will still finish their crushers before slower kids.

dgfsuperfan1 wrote:

Ming01 wrote:

DWeigs wrote:

truballa4life wrote:i agree, why would UND look at a guy who wasnt even on wda honorable mention?

ndman wrote:

#50mandan wrote:is effertz really getting looked at by und?

I would hope UND wouldnt waste their time looking at this kid. He is tall ill give that to him, but he is slow and uncoordinated. From what i saw he wasnt that good.

You can always develop speed, and coordination, but cant really make somebody taller. Sometimes somebodys physical attributes are good enough where the coaches think they can develop the rest of him. Just my opinion

You can't develop or teach speed, it's a god-given talent

I wished my coaches believe this, he would not have had us do all those dang crushers and windsprints, we could have just walked onto the field with our "god given talents" and got killed.

did those crushers and windsprints make you any faster? I doubt it. it just got you in game shape.

Ming01 wrote:I am insulted by your comments. How dare you insult me. Sorry, maybe I should have said speed is 90% god-given talent and maybe just nearly 10% can be taught. Yeah, Frappier can help you with technique and training but all the technique and hard work in the world might not make Brooks Bollinger faster than Adrian Petersons mom. Technique and training can only go so far and all the speed in the world cannot overcome genetics.

I would be interested to know your source of this information... But lets assume for the sake of argument that it's true. Do you realize how much of an impact a 10% increase in speed can have? Increasing speed by 10% would change a 6.0 forty yard dash time to a 5.4 or a 5.6 to a 5.04! That is a HUGE difference.

Ming01 wrote:I am insulted by your comments. How dare you insult me. Sorry, maybe I should have said speed is 90% god-given talent and maybe just nearly 10% can be taught. Yeah, Frappier can help you with technique and training but all the technique and hard work in the world might not make Brooks Bollinger faster than Adrian Petersons mom. Technique and training can only go so far and all the speed in the world cannot overcome genetics.

No one can run fast enough to overcome their genetics??? I'll assume that you meant that our genetics will only allow us to reach a certain speed, and we will never be able to go beyond that limit. While this could be true to some degree, speed is not a simple Mendelian genetic issue. It is highly unlikely that anyone ever reaches their full genetic potential, and that their is always gains to be made. 20 years ago, no one thought that humans would reach 30mph running. Now, Olympic sprinters are touching 28-29mph, and scientists are questioning whether 33-35mph might be possible. How is that possible?...

You see, speed is pretty simple. While differences in stride length and frequency do play a role, they really aren't different enough from one person to the next to account for speed differences. What it all boils down your ability to generate force with your legs. The more force you generate, the faster you go. In order to increase force, you need to increase muscle mass in the legs and torso. The only limiting factor is a persons ability to accommodate additional muscle mass... i.e. their frame, and their capacity to stick to a training program. So, the true genetic argument comes down to this: You can make improvements in an athletes speed if they have the frame to handle additional muscle mass and they are healthy enough to handle a rigorous training program. Seems like pretty much every high school athlete in the state fits into those requirements.

Ming01 wrote:I am insulted by your comments. How dare you insult me. Sorry, maybe I should have said speed is 90% god-given talent and maybe just nearly 10% can be taught. Yeah, Frappier can help you with technique and training but all the technique and hard work in the world might not make Brooks Bollinger faster than Adrian Petersons mom. Technique and training can only go so far and all the speed in the world cannot overcome genetics.

In a race between any NFL quarterback and Bonita Jackson (Peterson's Mother), I'll take the the quarterback any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

walter wrote:

Ming01 wrote:I am insulted by your comments. How dare you insult me. Sorry, maybe I should have said speed is 90% god-given talent and maybe just nearly 10% can be taught. Yeah, Frappier can help you with technique and training but all the technique and hard work in the world might not make Brooks Bollinger faster than Adrian Petersons mom. Technique and training can only go so far and all the speed in the world cannot overcome genetics.

I would be interested to know your source of this information... But lets assume for the sake of argument that it's true. Do you realize how much of an impact a 10% increase in speed can have? Increasing speed by 10% would change a 6.0 forty yard dash time to a 5.4 or a 5.6 to a 5.04! That is a HUGE difference.

Ming01 wrote:I am insulted by your comments. How dare you insult me. Sorry, maybe I should have said speed is 90% god-given talent and maybe just nearly 10% can be taught. Yeah, Frappier can help you with technique and training but all the technique and hard work in the world might not make Brooks Bollinger faster than Adrian Petersons mom. Technique and training can only go so far and all the speed in the world cannot overcome genetics.

No one can run fast enough to overcome their genetics??? I'll assume that you meant that our genetics will only allow us to reach a certain speed, and we will never be able to go beyond that limit. While this could be true to some degree, speed is not a simple Mendelian genetic issue. It is highly unlikely that anyone ever reaches their full genetic potential, and that their is always gains to be made. 20 years ago, no one thought that humans would reach 30mph running. Now, Olympic sprinters are touching 28-29mph, and scientists are questioning whether 33-35mph might be possible. How is that possible?...

You see, speed is pretty simple. While differences in stride length and frequency do play a role, they really aren't different enough from one person to the next to account for speed differences. What it all boils down your ability to generate force with your legs. The more force you generate, the faster you go. In order to increase force, you need to increase muscle mass in the legs and torso. The only limiting factor is a persons ability to accommodate additional muscle mass... i.e. their frame, and their capacity to stick to a training program. So, the true genetic argument comes down to this: You can make improvements in an athletes speed if they have the frame to handle additional muscle mass and they are healthy enough to handle a rigorous training program. Seems like pretty much every high school athlete in the state fits into those requirements.

Ming01 wrote:I am insulted by your comments. How dare you insult me. Sorry, maybe I should have said speed is 90% god-given talent and maybe just nearly 10% can be taught. Yeah, Frappier can help you with technique and training but all the technique and hard work in the world might not make Brooks Bollinger faster than Adrian Petersons mom. Technique and training can only go so far and all the speed in the world cannot overcome genetics.

In a race between any NFL quarterback and Bonita Jackson (Peterson's Mother), I'll take the the quarterback any day of the week and twice on Sundays.[/quote]

10% can be taught, that has nothing to do with speed increasement

why dont you copy paste a little more while you're at it?

it's called an example. an example about speed and genetics is why i said it. But in the end I would say speed is a talent, you can't really teach speed, it is mostly a gift from god.

Ming-

You must have spent a great deal of time on all the research to find that "you can't really teach speed." Also, your masterful "example" of genetics and speed is both realistic and clarifying. Needless to say, I roundly disagree with you. The difference is, I base my opinion on actual proof. Would you like to some?

read this abstract from Volume 7, No. 1 of The Sports Journal (2004). I've bolded the important information for you.

Speed Training Program for High School Football Players

By:

Michael Gray, Ed.D.
Jessica A. Sauerbeck, B.A.
Northern Kentucky University
Abstract

The objective of this program was to improve the 40-yard sprint time in junior varsity and varsity high school football players. A 4-½ week speed-training program was designed for 38 high school athletes. The athletes participated 3 days per week in the program. The program consisted of specific form running on a 40-yard course at various downhill degrees of slope in addition to the normal workout of agility and lateral speed training. Each participant was timed on a flat track prior to the start of the training program and upon its completion. The overall results showed an average decrease in time in the 40-yard sprint of 0.188 seconds (range +0.01 to -0.9). All but 5 participants demonstrated an improved time. These results suggest that a standardized training program emphasizing acceleration, starting ability, stride rate, speed endurance, and stride length can improve performance in the 40-yard sprint.

In just one month working only three days per week, they were able to make marked improvements in speed. ONE MONTH!!! THREE DAYS A WEEK!!!! Their speed improved, almost as if it is a teachable skill. If you need more convincing, take a look at Training for Speed, Agility, and Quickness 2nd edition, by Brown and Ferrigno. Maybe that will be enough for you.

Since you provided a nice suggestion for me, I have one in return: The next time you want to engage someone in an argument, make sure that you have some semblance of proof to back your claim... spouting off with one line statements like "You can't do that" or "it's just God-given" only makes you look foolish.

Thanks Walter. I appreciate the fact that you are able to back up your statements. I shudder when I read some of the posts--the most ridiculous statements are made.

walter wrote:Ming-

You must have spent a great deal of time on all the research to find that "you can't really teach speed." Also, your masterful "example" of genetics and speed is both realistic and clarifying. Needless to say, I roundly disagree with you. The difference is, I base my opinion on actual proof. Would you like to some?

read this abstract from Volume 7, No. 1 of The Sports Journal (2004). I've bolded the important information for you.

Speed Training Program for High School Football Players

By:

Michael Gray, Ed.D.
Jessica A. Sauerbeck, B.A.
Northern Kentucky University
Abstract

The objective of this program was to improve the 40-yard sprint time in junior varsity and varsity high school football players. A 4-½ week speed-training program was designed for 38 high school athletes. The athletes participated 3 days per week in the program. The program consisted of specific form running on a 40-yard course at various downhill degrees of slope in addition to the normal workout of agility and lateral speed training. Each participant was timed on a flat track prior to the start of the training program and upon its completion. The overall results showed an average decrease in time in the 40-yard sprint of 0.188 seconds (range +0.01 to -0.9). All but 5 participants demonstrated an improved time. These results suggest that a standardized training program emphasizing acceleration, starting ability, stride rate, speed endurance, and stride length can improve performance in the 40-yard sprint.

In just one month working only three days per week, they were able to make marked improvements in speed. ONE MONTH!!! THREE DAYS A WEEK!!!! Their speed improved, almost as if it is a teachable skill. If you need more convincing, take a look at Training for Speed, Agility, and Quickness 2nd edition, by Brown and Ferrigno. Maybe that will be enough for you.

Since you provided a nice suggestion for me, I have one in return: The next time you want to engage someone in an argument, make sure that you have some semblance of proof to back your claim... spouting off with one line statements like "You can't do that" or "it's just God-given" only makes you look foolish.

alrighty, I'll admit it was ridiculous of me to say speed cannot be taught, but however you cannot deny that the majority of speed is a natural talent. some of us are born fast, some are slow, but with some technique and training you can improve your speed, but not drastically. But you have to know that balance and agility are as important as speed in most positions. This is why the NFL is not full of NCAA sprinters.

Being a outstanding HS player isnt all that goes into college recruiting. Measureables, speed, height/frame ability to put on muscle and weight can count as much as your high school performance does that mean you can be a bench guy on your team heck no. But the colleges ability to improve speed put on muscle and get you to potential weights and size count a lot they figure they have 2-3 years before you play. So take a 6'8" guy with some jumping ability if his shoulders and frame can support another 60 lbs with hard workouts heck ya hes got a shot, the WR SU played against in California was a walk on yet all conference player mostly because of size.

Some kids can reach close to full potential in HS some dont work it all and still have success but having a base to build on is a lot of what college guys are looking for. The no brainers are guys like Dressler, Chappel, Satter, Hansen, Kleinsausser ect that have superior ability already and they just need to find spots on the field but a lot of SU, UND and soon as Mary has a few more years in D II with players that may not be noticed by all recruiters but have the potential to be bigger faster stronger and the drive to play ball. College ball is a grind my freshman recruiting class at SU was down by half in one year, mostly cause of the year round work and effort needed. But also in that class was really one dominate type player, and at least 7 guys who I played against in HS who were not all state, but 6 of them fit the upside measureable end and ended up starting by jr year.

Lastly what people arent talking about are camp participation most recruits are invited to attend summer football camps or the kids go there hoping to get a look show what they can do. Wentz didnt go to Bollingers camp at UND this last summer. Thats where college coaches look at your measureables see you a bit on the field. If these guy attended a camp and not another I would look at that as a picture of where they were leaning and who was recruiting them. People like MC from north who was outstanding lineman at UND camp have a great shot at better look from that school. The other key is if you look at SU camp attendance it was more than 50% from out of state with minneapolis the biggest area but as far away as AZ. There will be some ND players going to SU next year but probably less than 25% of the recruiting class. UND will see the same movement more than likely as they move up but Mary Id think will be the next hotter spot for ND athletes that can play at a high level.

Wentz played baseball for the Govs last summer which is why he didn't attend any football camps

#50mandan wrote:

walter wrote:It is truly a miracle that colleges around the country have managed to have any measure of success scouting or recruiting without the help of such brilliant talent analysts as #50mandan, ndman, Ming01 and truballa4life. For literally decades, colleges have been running around with the ridiculous notion that recruits would continue to develop talent AFTER they finished high school. What fools!! If they only had the vision of this corp of analysts, they would know that a players skill set is CLEARLY defined and certainly would never progress once they reach college.

I am also glad that MIng and Number7 have shared their infinite wisdom regarding athletic training. Again, so much wasted energy could have been saved if only training programs around the country would realize that speed and coordination can never be changed once you reach that magic age of 18-19. And think, the idiots at Frappier Acceleration have the nerve to claim otherwise!! What could they possibly know about training?!? They even go as far as to GUARANTEE a 50% increase in foot speed and agility, and a .2 decrease in 40 yard dash time!!! I bet they never make any money.

Or maybe... just maybe... the people that scout, recruit, and train college athletes know a slight bit more about the whole process than our resident experts. And maybe, just maybe, the one single attribute that you absolutely can't teach, train, or develop..... is height.

Walter, alls i wanted to know is if the kid was gettin recruited by und, but now im a brilliantly talented analyst? If he is, congrats to him, they are going D1 and it would be sweet to have someone from bismarck be on that team since weston is now done, but do u think i could be an analyst?

nick farsveet plays for und at d-end might be a starter next year...just thought i would throw that in... another person from bismarck who is getting recruited by und is mikey ingmenson..... ALSO ryan dressler made the traveling team for und and jeff tescher from st marys redshirted this year so there is allready 3 players from bismarck who are on und's team and possibly 4 or 5 this year

Tescher is starting OLB for UND and long snapper

Horner has an official recruiting visit to NDSU this weekend. UND had him for an unofficial visit during the season, but didn't invite him for an official recruiting visit. I expcect he will sign with the Bison.

McGurran committed to UND tonight