2021 11B Playoff Bracket

[Flying Wallenda]

You have 22 seniors and more than 50 kids on your team and likely would have won the AA state title (the level you have been one of the best teams at for years)...........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................Just as the Grand Forks schools and fargo schools being uncompetitive was supposed to be considered............................................................................................................

Very few fight for the little schools. So it is a hill I'm willing to die on. You don't have to agree with me but that probably means you aren't from or don't have friends/family/kids struggling to compete and then showing up to play teams with more seniors than you have kids. That isn't a talent/hardwork issue; it's a numbers/safety issue.

So let me clearly understand your position. In the former AA system, Central Cass (under 300: 9-12) should play Jamestown (under 1000: 9-12), that you are good with, but Linton should not play Central Cass in the current 11-B system.

Your logic is what????

I would tell you, having 2 class B schools play each other, rather than have a class B school play a class A school makes a lot more sense. BTW: when is the last time Central Cass was a football power with all of their high enrollment? 1980 was their last football state championship. IF you are from a small school, you cry foul, but you are happy to have a the middle man (Central Cass) take on the Class A schools, because it doesn't affect you. Seems about right!!!

One could make an argument that the make up of Central Cass is closer to that of Jamestown than it is to Linton.

2021 Enrollment figures as on NDHSAA website:
Jamestown/Medina: 415
Central Cass: 152
Linton/HMB/Strasburg/Zeeland: 90

Notice that I didn't say enrollment numbers. I'm well aware that they are closer in enrollment to Linton than Jamestown.

If we want to play that game.

Fargo Shanley has 214 per NDHSAA and they are in class 11AA where the next smallest school has 611.

The make up of the school has as much to do with success as the enrollment.

Shanley opted up to 11AA correct?

Of what game are you referring? I'm well aware that you said the "makeup of Central Cass is closer to that of Linton". However, unless we are going back to the "if you town has a traffic light and burger king" conversation I'm not sure how applicable it is.

Perhaps the perfect plan would be related to demographic location to a metropolitan area of ND and private schools? "If 1 of your cooperative schools are within 30 miles of Fargo/Grand Forks/Bismarck/Minot.etc.....or you are a private school you will play in the same class as St. Mary/Shanley/Wahp/VC/etc....."

But does that still leave Jamestown on an Island? They seem to be having success this year.

[The Schwab]

The high school activities association took more into account than just enrollment by letting GF Central, Dickinson, Enderlin/MV, Hatton-Northwood, MPCG, Bottineau, Surrey and Ray/PL opt down in the first year of a plan before having those teams play one year in the division their enrollment puts them in but I'm not allowed to look at more than just enrollment? Kind of seems like a few member schools have a little more pull over the board and their decisions.

I think we could accomplish a more equitable system by having different multipliers based on F/R enrollment such as:

If your F/R population is above 30% you multiply your male enrollment by .7 to get your "number"
If your F/R population is between 15 and 29% you multiply your enrollment by 1 (no change)
If your F/R population is under 15% you multiply your enrollment by 1.3 to get your "number.

We could also use median home values within a 30 mile radius of your school to impact your number. That might even be more equitable than the F/R number.

I know this topic has been discussed ad nauseam, but my points have validity whether you want to admit it or not.

Kindred has far less in common with Bowman (who they host in the 11B playoffs this weekend) than they do with Jamestown (playing in the 11A playoffs this weekend).

[maddog1971]

Bowmen and Kindred have in common? They are both really good football teams that will fight it out to the last play to see who the winner is. None of those player care about if one school as 30 more kids then the other... They will line up 11 on 11 and play their hearts out and it will be a really good game to watch. Both team will be playing Seniors, Juniors, Soph and Freshmen....

[The Schwab]

Bowmen and Kindred have in common? They are both really good football teams that will fight it out to the last play to see who the winner is. None of those player care about if one school as 30 more kids then the other... They will line up 11 on 11 and play their hearts out and it will be a really good game to watch. Both team will be playing Seniors, Juniors, Soph and Freshmen....

Since I thoroughly love your input I will put it in a way for you to hopefully understand.

Your quote:
"They are both really good football teams that will fight it out to the last play to see who the winner is. None of those player care about if one school as 30 more kids then the other... They will line up 11 on 11 and play their hearts out and it will be a really good game to watch."
Could be used if we were to compare Kindred and Jamestown.

Bowman: 31 players on their roster: 12 of those are Jrs and Srs.

Kindred: 45 players on their roster; 23 of those are Jrs. and Srs.

Jamestown: 58 players on their roster; 32 of those are Jrs. and Srs.

[WalkingStick]

Just to be clear...since it was brought up in earlier posts; Kindred & Central Cass have never been football powers vs. AA opponents or Class B opponents...a few good years here and there but never sustained success.

One could argue that 9 playoff berths in 11 years is sustained success and that 6 playoff berths in 11 years is an above average program.

Maybe...but realize some of those years they had to be 4th out of 6 teams (and 8 of 12 teams made the postseason; not much winning needed) plus having a losing record; according to many on this site...that's not impressive and isn't really 'sustained success'.

There are some good years in there...but nothing compared to the sustained success Shanley & BSM had in AA.

Central Cass & Kindred belong playing the Class B Schools as long as they are a Class B school...I do agree that Linton-HMB is small and should be in 9-Man...Strasburg/Zeeland enrollment is hurting them when S/Z participation doesn't match.

[The Schwab]

I will agree that Central Cass and Kindred should be playing class B schools if there were 3 football classes and 2 of them made up of strictly class B schools. Since there are 4 classes I would say that CC and Kindred should be playing with the larger class B schools (that have been mentioned) as well as the smaller class A schools (Jamestown and smaller). My stance on this issue has not and will not change.

[WalkingStick]

I will agree that Central Cass and Kindred should be playing class B schools if there were 3 football classes and 2 of them made up of strictly class B schools. Since there are 4 classes I would say that CC and Kindred should be playing with the larger class B schools (that have been mentioned) as well as the smaller class A schools (Jamestown and smaller). My stance on this issue has not and will not change.

Respect your stance...I honestly don't have a 'horse in the race'...I just like stats and such and peaceful debates.

I like this year's system but agree some things need tweaking...including the whole stupid 'opt down' option...there are only a few schools where I feel this should be allowed (message me if you really want to know who those are; I'll list them off).

[The Schwab]

I will agree that Central Cass and Kindred should be playing class B schools if there were 3 football classes and 2 of them made up of strictly class B schools. Since there are 4 classes I would say that CC and Kindred should be playing with the larger class B schools (that have been mentioned) as well as the smaller class A schools (Jamestown and smaller). My stance on this issue has not and will not change.

Respect your stance...I honestly don't have a 'horse in the race'...I just like stats and such and peaceful debates.

I like this year's system but agree some things need tweaking...including the whole stupid 'opt down' option...there are only a few schools where I feel this should be allowed (message me if you really want to know who those are; I'll list them off).

The big problems I have with this plan:

1. Opting down in the first year of a new plan
1A. Public schools in GF and Fargo not being in the biggest class

Kindred and CC aren't a large problem IMO, but I don't agree with where they are placed.

[WalkingStick]

I will agree that Central Cass and Kindred should be playing class B schools if there were 3 football classes and 2 of them made up of strictly class B schools. Since there are 4 classes I would say that CC and Kindred should be playing with the larger class B schools (that have been mentioned) as well as the smaller class A schools (Jamestown and smaller). My stance on this issue has not and will not change.

Respect your stance...I honestly don't have a 'horse in the race'...I just like stats and such and peaceful debates.

I like this year's system but agree some things need tweaking...including the whole stupid 'opt down' option...there are only a few schools where I feel this should be allowed (message me if you really want to know who those are; I'll list them off).

The big problems I have with this plan:

1. Opting down in the first year of a new plan
1A. Public schools in GF and Fargo not being in the biggest class

Kindred and CC aren't a large problem IMO, but I don't agree with where they are placed.

It's actually the only year of this plan...new plan next year will be first of two years BUT I get your point.

[Flying Wallenda]

The high school activities association took more into account than just enrollment by letting GF Central, Dickinson, Enderlin/MV, Hatton-Northwood, MPCG, Bottineau, Surrey and Ray/PL opt down in the first year of a plan before having those teams play one year in the division their enrollment puts them in but I'm not allowed to look at more than just enrollment? Kind of seems like a few member schools have a little more pull over the board and their decisions.

I think we could accomplish a more equitable system by having different multipliers based on F/R enrollment such as:

If your F/R population is above 30% you multiply your male enrollment by .7 to get your "number"
If your F/R population is between 15 and 29% you multiply your enrollment by 1 (no change)
If your F/R population is under 15% you multiply your enrollment by 1.3 to get your "number.

We could also use median home values within a 30 mile radius of your school to impact your number. That might even be more equitable than the F/R number.

I know this topic has been discussed ad nauseam, but my points have validity whether you want to admit it or not.

Kindred has far less in common with Bowman (who they host in the 11B playoffs this weekend) than they do with Jamestown (playing in the 11A playoffs this weekend).

Those schools could opt down because of lack of past success and being in the bottom 25% of enrollment in
the class. Not sure if I agree with it.
I’d be interested to see how the schools would fall if you put the free and reduced and geographic location plan on paper. If you have time do it would be interesting.

[Flip]

HCV rolls today and next week IMO. They had some close games and a loss early. That team hasn't been seen in a while.

[WalkingStick]

1:35 1st: Kindred leads Bowman 16-0

[5-time state chump]

Kindred going through Bowman County like a hot knife through butter. Now 23-0
.
I'm suspecting HCV does the same thing to Bishop Ryan.

[WalkingStick]

Kindred DEF. Bowman County 51-19
Hillsboro-CV leads Bishop Ryan 13-0 midway through 1st Q and has the ball again

[5-time state chump]

HCV is slapping Bishop Ryan silly.
34-0
4:00 left in 2nd quarter.

41-0
2:00 left in 2nd quarter

[WalkingStick]

HCV is slapping Bishop Ryan silly.
34-0

4:00 left in 2nd Quarter.

Now 41-0 with 2:31 left...quick 2nd half upcoming with running clock.

Both Semifinals had running clock...sad!

I would have been very intrigued to see the Top 8 teams seeded...or the whole field; would have been fun and likely could have set up an all-east Semifinal

[5-time state chump]

HCV is slapping Bishop Ryan silly.
34-0

4:00 left in 2nd Quarter.

Now 41-0 with 2:31 left...quick 2nd half upcoming with running clock.

Both Semifinals had running clock...sad!

I would have been very intrigued to see the Top 8 teams seeded...or the whole field; would have been fun and likely could have set up an all-east Semifinal

Based on what I've seen....yes.

Langdon
Hillsboro
Cass
Kindred

all easily better than the top team in the west.

[WalkingStick]

My thoughts would be (I also guaranteed no region matchups in the opening round)

#16 Nedrose @ #1 Hillsboro-Central Valley
#9 Des Lacs-Burlington @ #8 Harvey-Wells County

#13 Thompson @ #4 Central Cass
#12 Oakes @ #5 Bowman County

#15 Hazen @ #2 Kindred
#10 Velva/Garrison @ #7 Beulah

#14 Lisbon @ #3 Langdon/Edmore/Munich
#11 Shiloh Christian @ #6 Bishop Ryan/ORCS

[The Schwab]

The high school activities association took more into account than just enrollment by letting GF Central, Dickinson, Enderlin/MV, Hatton-Northwood, MPCG, Bottineau, Surrey and Ray/PL opt down in the first year of a plan before having those teams play one year in the division their enrollment puts them in but I'm not allowed to look at more than just enrollment? Kind of seems like a few member schools have a little more pull over the board and their decisions.

I think we could accomplish a more equitable system by having different multipliers based on F/R enrollment such as:

If your F/R population is above 30% you multiply your male enrollment by .7 to get your "number"
If your F/R population is between 15 and 29% you multiply your enrollment by 1 (no change)
If your F/R population is under 15% you multiply your enrollment by 1.3 to get your "number.

We could also use median home values within a 30 mile radius of your school to impact your number. That might even be more equitable than the F/R number.

I know this topic has been discussed ad nauseam, but my points have validity whether you want to admit it or not.

Kindred has far less in common with Bowman (who they host in the 11B playoffs this weekend) than they do with Jamestown (playing in the 11A playoffs this weekend).

Those schools could opt down because of lack of past success and being in the bottom 25% of enrollment in
the class. Not sure if I agree with it.
I’d be interested to see how the schools would fall if you put the free and reduced and geographic location plan on paper. If you have time do it would be interesting.

I don’t have those numbers easily accessible to me. There are people who work in valley city (director and assistant directors) that get paid a lot of money to represent the schools they serve… all of the schools, not just the large ones. I’m perplexed by the fact that class B schools make up 80 percent of the ndhsaa membership, yet they have less than 40 percent of the ndhsaa board members. I’m always told that if the majority of the membership wants something than it will happen. Was that the case with the current football plan? Or did the current board members just vote for something based on what they thought was right?

Also, not one person on this forum should be surprised by the scores in the 11B semi finals today.

[Bisonguy06]

Totally predictable playoff results today, agree there.

I bet a majority of ND students attend class A schools.

A NDHSAA board with a class A majority would have proportional representation for the state’s student population.

[Flying Wallenda]

The high school activities association took more into account than just enrollment by letting GF Central, Dickinson, Enderlin/MV, Hatton-Northwood, MPCG, Bottineau, Surrey and Ray/PL opt down in the first year of a plan before having those teams play one year in the division their enrollment puts them in but I'm not allowed to look at more than just enrollment? Kind of seems like a few member schools have a little more pull over the board and their decisions.

I think we could accomplish a more equitable system by having different multipliers based on F/R enrollment such as:

If your F/R population is above 30% you multiply your male enrollment by .7 to get your "number"
If your F/R population is between 15 and 29% you multiply your enrollment by 1 (no change)
If your F/R population is under 15% you multiply your enrollment by 1.3 to get your "number.

We could also use median home values within a 30 mile radius of your school to impact your number. That might even be more equitable than the F/R number.

I know this topic has been discussed ad nauseam, but my points have validity whether you want to admit it or not.

Kindred has far less in common with Bowman (who they host in the 11B playoffs this weekend) than they do with Jamestown (playing in the 11A playoffs this weekend).

Those schools could opt down because of lack of past success and being in the bottom 25% of enrollment in
the class. Not sure if I agree with it.
I’d be interested to see how the schools would fall if you put the free and reduced and geographic location plan on paper. If you have time do it would be interesting.

I don’t have those numbers easily accessible to me. There are people who work in valley city (director and assistant directors) that get paid a lot of money to represent the schools they serve… all of the schools, not just the large ones. I’m perplexed by the fact that class B schools make up 80 percent of the ndhsaa membership, yet they have less than 40 percent of the ndhsaa board members. I’m always told that if the majority of the membership wants something than it will happen. Was that the case with the current football plan? Or did the current board members just vote for something based on what they thought was right?

Also, not one person on this forum should be surprised by the scores in the 11B semi finals today.

So you believe the plan keeping the b schools away from the A schools is the board pandering to the big schools? I’m so confused…..

I’m not at all suprised by today’s results. HCV with mid road enrollment gets tons of kids out and are well coached. Kindred more up and down, had to slug through a couple tough playoffs games until today. I figured that one would be closer.

Of the 32 teams in this division I feel 6 (CC/Kindred/Hillsboro/Langdon/Harvey/Buelah) could have won. No idea what happened to Buelah, Harvey fell to injuries.

Kindred will push HCV but I like the Burros by double digits.

[The Schwab]

Totally predictable playoff results today, agree there.

I bet a majority of ND students attend class A schools.

A NDHSAA board with a class A majority would have proportional representation for the state’s student population.

So then we should get rid of the US senate and just let the US House decide?

[The Schwab]

The high school activities association took more into account than just enrollment by letting GF Central, Dickinson, Enderlin/MV, Hatton-Northwood, MPCG, Bottineau, Surrey and Ray/PL opt down in the first year of a plan before having those teams play one year in the division their enrollment puts them in but I'm not allowed to look at more than just enrollment? Kind of seems like a few member schools have a little more pull over the board and their decisions.

I think we could accomplish a more equitable system by having different multipliers based on F/R enrollment such as:

If your F/R population is above 30% you multiply your male enrollment by .7 to get your "number"
If your F/R population is between 15 and 29% you multiply your enrollment by 1 (no change)
If your F/R population is under 15% you multiply your enrollment by 1.3 to get your "number.

We could also use median home values within a 30 mile radius of your school to impact your number. That might even be more equitable than the F/R number.

I know this topic has been discussed ad nauseam, but my points have validity whether you want to admit it or not.

Kindred has far less in common with Bowman (who they host in the 11B playoffs this weekend) than they do with Jamestown (playing in the 11A playoffs this weekend).

Those schools could opt down because of lack of past success and being in the bottom 25% of enrollment in
the class. Not sure if I agree with it.
I’d be interested to see how the schools would fall if you put the free and reduced and geographic location plan on paper. If you have time do it would be interesting.

I don’t have those numbers easily accessible to me. There are people who work in valley city (director and assistant directors) that get paid a lot of money to represent the schools they serve… all of the schools, not just the large ones. I’m perplexed by the fact that class B schools make up 80 percent of the ndhsaa membership, yet they have less than 40 percent of the ndhsaa board members. I’m always told that if the majority of the membership wants something than it will happen. Was that the case with the current football plan? Or did the current board members just vote for something based on what they thought was right?

Also, not one person on this forum should be surprised by the scores in the 11B semi finals today.

So you believe the plan keeping the b schools away from the A schools is the board pandering to the big schools? I’m so confused…..

I’m not at all suprised by today’s results. HCV with mid road enrollment gets tons of kids out and are well coached. Kindred more up and down, had to slug through a couple tough playoffs games until today. I figured that one would be closer.

Of the 32 teams in this division I feel 6 (CC/Kindred/Hillsboro/Langdon/Harvey/Buelah) could have won. No idea what happened to Buelah, Harvey fell to injuries.

Kindred will push HCV but I like the Burros by double digits.

The plan caters to the grand forks publics, fargo publics and large class B schools. Maybe I’m the only one that it is able to see that.

[WalkingStick]

Yes…the smaller class A schools benefited from the system being used. I, however, am not sold that those schools demanded this setup like you are suggesting. From experience with other sports, I know that the West A schools have never liked playing Class B schools

Also for a previous statement there are Board representation is 3 for A schools (E, W & At-Large), 4 for B schools (NW, SW, NE, SE) and 4 supposed neutrals.

[Flying Wallenda]

The high school activities association took more into account than just enrollment by letting GF Central, Dickinson, Enderlin/MV, Hatton-Northwood, MPCG, Bottineau, Surrey and Ray/PL opt down in the first year of a plan before having those teams play one year in the division their enrollment puts them in but I'm not allowed to look at more than just enrollment? Kind of seems like a few member schools have a little more pull over the board and their decisions.

I think we could accomplish a more equitable system by having different multipliers based on F/R enrollment such as:

If your F/R population is above 30% you multiply your male enrollment by .7 to get your "number"
If your F/R population is between 15 and 29% you multiply your enrollment by 1 (no change)
If your F/R population is under 15% you multiply your enrollment by 1.3 to get your "number.

We could also use median home values within a 30 mile radius of your school to impact your number. That might even be more equitable than the F/R number.

I know this topic has been discussed ad nauseam, but my points have validity whether you want to admit it or not.

Kindred has far less in common with Bowman (who they host in the 11B playoffs this weekend) than they do with Jamestown (playing in the 11A playoffs this weekend).

Those schools could opt down because of lack of past success and being in the bottom 25% of enrollment in
the class. Not sure if I agree with it.
I’d be interested to see how the schools would fall if you put the free and reduced and geographic location plan on paper. If you have time do it would be interesting.

I don’t have those numbers easily accessible to me. There are people who work in valley city (director and assistant directors) that get paid a lot of money to represent the schools they serve… all of the schools, not just the large ones. I’m perplexed by the fact that class B schools make up 80 percent of the ndhsaa membership, yet they have less than 40 percent of the ndhsaa board members. I’m always told that if the majority of the membership wants something than it will happen. Was that the case with the current football plan? Or did the current board members just vote for something based on what they thought was right?

Also, not one person on this forum should be surprised by the scores in the 11B semi finals today.

So you believe the plan keeping the b schools away from the A schools is the board pandering to the big schools? I’m so confused…..

I’m not at all suprised by today’s results. HCV with mid road enrollment gets tons of kids out and are well coached. Kindred more up and down, had to slug through a couple tough playoffs games until today. I figured that one would be closer.

Of the 32 teams in this division I feel 6 (CC/Kindred/Hillsboro/Langdon/Harvey/Buelah) could have won. No idea what happened to Buelah, Harvey fell to injuries.

Kindred will push HCV but I like the Burros by double digits.

The plan caters to the grand forks publics, fargo publics and large class B schools. Maybe I’m the only one that it is able to see that.

I respect your opinion but disagree. Here’s why:
In 11A the 2nd and 4th smallest schools are in the championship. While one grand forks school squeaked into the playoffs as a 7th seed. North made the semi’s.

11B: the bottom 2 enrolled teams made the final 4. The favorite is the 11th largest. 3rd largest school in finals. 3 of the top 5 enrolled schools were bad.

Just doesn’t seem to be a plan that screams of a conspiracy to favor those schools you mentioned. Looking at the enrollment cutoffs all the plans seem to have figures about 2 to 1. St. Mary/Wahp/VC fall outside those figures. Perhaps the plan is crooked towards them?

Opt downs? Maybe happened to soon.

All in all, NOT PERFECT. As I’ve said all along, no plan is. Throw me a plan and I’ll find a way to shoot holes in it and find schools that are on the wrong end. But good IMO.