2021 11B Playoff Bracket

[defensewinsgames]

Kindred and HCV win fairly easily. I hope Bowman gets it done but I don't think so. Two AA teams in the A state championship without HCV playing a close game all playoffs.....Lisbon and Harvey who are very good teams and should have been favorites in the state with last years classification get destroyed in the playoffs. Proof to me this system is ridiculous and doesn't work. Others will disagree and to that my response is it works if you are one of the blue bloods of A or these large teams. Doesn't work for anyone else. Even the A teams who are in their " one of the best groups at our school in a decade" category struggle to compete (see Harvey who finished 3rd in the region and get destroyed by a Central Cass team with like 60 players in the playoffs). Hate this.

[Flying Wallenda]

Kindred and HCV win fairly easily. I hope Bowman gets it done but I don't think so. Two AA teams in the A state championship without HCV playing a close game all playoffs.....Lisbon and Harvey who are very good teams and should have been favorites in the state with last years classification get destroyed in the playoffs. Proof to me this system is ridiculous and doesn't work. Others will disagree and to that my response is it works if you are one of the blue bloods of A or these large teams. Doesn't work for anyone else. Even the A teams who are in their " one of the best groups at our school in a decade" category struggle to compete (see Harvey who finished 3rd in the region and get destroyed by a Central Cass team with like 60 players in the playoffs). Hate this.

HCV 11th out of 32 teams in the division in terms of enrollment, would be A this year regardless of plan change. Harvey lost a couple of their studs prior to the Central Cass game.

[defensewinsgames]

I totally get it Flying Wallenda but the recent plan is supposed to take other things into account besides enrollment (which I keep getting told is one of the big benefits).....well.....if you have 50+ kids on your team and 22 seniors maybe the enrollment isn't telling the whole story. Just like I have been reminded constantly that enrollment with those AAA teams who moved down doesn't tell the whole story. Runs both ways.

[Flying Wallenda]

I totally get it Flying Wallenda but the recent plan is supposed to take other things into account besides enrollment (which I keep getting told is one of the big benefits).....well.....if you have 50+ kids on your team and 22 seniors maybe the enrollment isn't telling the whole story. Just like I have been reminded constantly that enrollment with those AAA teams who moved down doesn't tell the whole story. Runs both ways.

What are the other considerations supposed to be?

[defensewinsgames]

You have 22 seniors and more than 50 kids on your team and likely would have won the AA state title (the level you have been one of the best teams at for years)...........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................Just as the Grand Forks schools and fargo schools being uncompetitive was supposed to be considered............................................................................................................

Very few fight for the little schools. So it is a hill I'm willing to die on. You don't have to agree with me but that probably means you aren't from or don't have friends/family/kids struggling to compete and then showing up to play teams with more seniors than you have kids. That isn't a talent/hardwork issue; it's a numbers/safety issue.

[WalkingStick]

You have 22 seniors and more than 50 kids on your team and likely would have won the AA state title (the level you have been one of the best teams at for years)...........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................Just as the Grand Forks schools and fargo schools being uncompetitive was supposed to be considered............................................................................................................

Very few fight for the little schools. So it is a hill I'm willing to die on. You don't have to agree with me but that probably means you aren't from or don't have friends/family/kids struggling to compete and then showing up to play teams with more seniors than you have kids. That isn't a talent/hardwork issue; it's a numbers/safety issue.

But everyone wants the private schools to move up a class…even if it’s not in some of their best interest numbers or safety wise. So it matters for some schools but not others in the eyes of many on this forum

[Flying Wallenda]

You have 22 seniors and more than 50 kids on your team and likely would have won the AA state title (the level you have been one of the best teams at for years)...........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................Just as the Grand Forks schools and fargo schools being uncompetitive was supposed to be considered............................................................................................................

Very few fight for the little schools. So it is a hill I'm willing to die on. You don't have to agree with me but that probably means you aren't from or don't have friends/family/kids struggling to compete and then showing up to play teams with more seniors than you have kids. That isn't a talent/hardwork issue; it's a numbers/safety issue.

Actually HCV was in 11B (3rd smallest class) from 2017-19, then to AA from 19-21, now back to 11B - so they haven't been the best team in AA "for years". I think they bounced between the classes another time in the early teens........?

Hard for me to think they are misclassified when they are essentially middle of the pack enrollment wise,
though that does seem like a huge number of seniors.

I have friends/family from both sides of the state. The plan isn't perfect. I don't believe one exists.

[The Schwab]

Hillsboro has really benefitted from the co-op with Central Valley. CV's enrollment has dropped quite a bit in the past decade, but they still throw a handful of great athletes into the programs. Hillsboro's school has gained about 80 kids in their school system K-12 the past 10 years. You mix the numbers they have with the programs they have and you get the success that co-op has sustained for a number of years. I think they are in line with most 11B schools when it comes to enrollment. They don't get the same benefits as those schools whose districts directly touch Fargo but they do get some benefit.

[maddog1971]

You have 22 seniors and more than 50 kids on your team and likely would have won the AA state title (the level you have been one of the best teams at for years)...........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................Just as the Grand Forks schools and fargo schools being uncompetitive was supposed to be considered............................................................................................................

Very few fight for the little schools. So it is a hill I'm willing to die on. You don't have to agree with me but that probably means you aren't from or don't have friends/family/kids struggling to compete and then showing up to play teams with more seniors than you have kids. That isn't a talent/hardwork issue; it's a numbers/safety issue.

Ok... So you think it is ok for the the schools that have 10 Seniors,12 juniors, 8 Soph and 12 Freshman... play teams that have 38 senior 35 Juniors? Maybe it is... I don't know. If you look at CC.... they are graduating around 30 seniors this year. So basically they will be a 500 team next year so let's put them up against St. Mary's, Devils Lake, Valley City, Jamestown, South and North Fargo......
Well that does not make sense to me.

My kids will play anyone because they know about the process and dedication it takes to just play football. If things come together you win.... if they don't ... you don't.

I don't have the correct answer but I think this year's teams have been great and I don't know how it would be more competitive. Kindred has won by a total of 5 points in the playoff's. CC who is the biggest went home... Harvey lost kids before playoffs... Who in this league can take a loss of 2 of the best players on the team.... NO ONE.

[momofathletes]

What great games.... 3 OT's in the quarter finals in Velva/BR.... 70 Yard Kick Return by a Freshman for the win in Kindred/LEM.... DLB and Bowman Back and forth struggle.... HCV Defense coming up- Big Time...

What more do you want in a playoff.

Kindred Over Bowman.... but 3 and HCV 18 over BR....

How ironic that the same guy who claims freshman and sophomores shouldn't even count as varsity players because "their bodies aren't ready for it" makes note of a game winning TD by a freshman in a win-or-go-home game. Apparently that alibi can only be used when Kindred plays St. Mary's.

[WalkingStick]

What great games.... 3 OT's in the quarter finals in Velva/BR.... 70 Yard Kick Return by a Freshman for the win in Kindred/LEM.... DLB and Bowman Back and forth struggle.... HCV Defense coming up- Big Time...

What more do you want in a playoff.

Kindred Over Bowman.... but 3 and HCV 18 over BR....

How ironic that the same guy who claims freshman and sophomores shouldn't even count as varsity players because "their bodies aren't ready for it" makes note of a game winning TD by a freshman in a win-or-go-home game. Apparently that alibi can only be used when Kindred plays St. Mary's.

Two noted observations
1. Loves talking about Kindred
2. Hates Private Schools (St. Mary's when talking Football)

[maddog1971]

What great games.... 3 OT's in the quarter finals in Velva/BR.... 70 Yard Kick Return by a Freshman for the win in Kindred/LEM.... DLB and Bowman Back and forth struggle.... HCV Defense coming up- Big Time...

What more do you want in a playoff.

Kindred Over Bowman.... but 3 and HCV 18 over BR....

How ironic that the same guy who claims freshman and sophomores shouldn't even count as varsity players because "their bodies aren't ready for it" makes note of a game winning TD by a freshman in a win-or-go-home game. Apparently that alibi can only be used when Kindred plays St. Mary's.

Well guess what... they are not playing a school that has 72 kids that are Juniors and Seniors.... They are playing Bowman County... that has Freshmen and Sophs playing as well. That is an even playing field.

[maddog1971]

What great games.... 3 OT's in the quarter finals in Velva/BR.... 70 Yard Kick Return by a Freshman for the win in Kindred/LEM.... DLB and Bowman Back and forth struggle.... HCV Defense coming up- Big Time...

What more do you want in a playoff.

Kindred Over Bowman.... but 3 and HCV 18 over BR....

How ironic that the same guy who claims freshman and sophomores shouldn't even count as varsity players because "their bodies aren't ready for it" makes note of a game winning TD by a freshman in a win-or-go-home game. Apparently that alibi can only be used when Kindred plays St. Mary's.

Two noted observations
1. Loves talking about Kindred
2. Hates Private Schools (St. Mary's when talking Football)

I use Kindred/ Central Cass/HCV and Thompson quite a bit because that is who is getting bashed all the time. Yes I do think that St. Mary's needs to be playing with the class A schools. I think they, NDHSAA has it right with how they have the teams split up. Yes... I don't think Privates belong playing Basketball with Class B schools. Yes I believe they should be competing against the Big B's and small A's. So yes I agree in a 3rd division for Basketball.
Also I completely agree that the more kids in a program, the bigger advantage you have.... when you are pulling select kids from a market of 50,000 people you also have an advantage.

[The Schwab]

What great games.... 3 OT's in the quarter finals in Velva/BR.... 70 Yard Kick Return by a Freshman for the win in Kindred/LEM.... DLB and Bowman Back and forth struggle.... HCV Defense coming up- Big Time...

What more do you want in a playoff.

Kindred Over Bowman.... but 3 and HCV 18 over BR....

How ironic that the same guy who claims freshman and sophomores shouldn't even count as varsity players because "their bodies aren't ready for it" makes note of a game winning TD by a freshman in a win-or-go-home game. Apparently that alibi can only be used when Kindred plays St. Mary's.

Well guess what... they are not playing a school that has 72 kids that are Juniors and Seniors.... They are playing Bowman County... that has Freshmen and Sophs playing as well. That is an even playing field.

In 2016 Bowman was playing 9 man football (4th class) their k-12 enrollment was-118 their enrollment this year is 139 this is an 17.8% increase.

In 2016 Kindred was playing AA football (2rd class) their k-12 enrollment was- 197 their enrollment this year is 232 this is a 17.8% increase.

Both of these teams are playing 11 B football this year (3rd class). Interesting food for thought on the "even playing field".

[BelfieldBantams]

Kindred has more kids 9-12 today then what you posted so I don't know what those stats mean.

My opinion still is Kindred, Cass should not be in the same region as Edgeley or Linton.

Kindred and Cass have more in common with St. Mary's, Wahpeton, Valley City etc.

[leroybla]

You have 22 seniors and more than 50 kids on your team and likely would have won the AA state title (the level you have been one of the best teams at for years)...........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................Just as the Grand Forks schools and fargo schools being uncompetitive was supposed to be considered............................................................................................................

Very few fight for the little schools. So it is a hill I'm willing to die on. You don't have to agree with me but that probably means you aren't from or don't have friends/family/kids struggling to compete and then showing up to play teams with more seniors than you have kids. That isn't a talent/hardwork issue; it's a numbers/safety issue.

Ok... So you think it is ok for the the schools that have 10 Seniors,12 juniors, 8 Soph and 12 Freshman... play teams that have 38 senior 35 Juniors? Maybe it is... I don't know. If you look at CC.... they are graduating around 30 seniors this year. So basically they will be a 500 team next year so let's put them up against St. Mary's, Devils Lake, Valley City, Jamestown, South and North Fargo......
Well that does not make sense to me.

My kids will play anyone because they know about the process and dedication it takes to just play football. If things come together you win.... if they don't ... you don't.

I don't have the correct answer but I think this year's teams have been great and I don't know how it would be more competitive. Kindred has won by a total of 5 points in the playoff's. CC who is the biggest went home... Harvey lost kids before playoffs... Who in this league can take a loss of 2 of the best players on the team.... NO ONE.

For the record,CC has 11 seniors on their football roster.

[WalkingStick]

You have 22 seniors and more than 50 kids on your team and likely would have won the AA state title (the level you have been one of the best teams at for years)...........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................Just as the Grand Forks schools and fargo schools being uncompetitive was supposed to be considered............................................................................................................

Very few fight for the little schools. So it is a hill I'm willing to die on. You don't have to agree with me but that probably means you aren't from or don't have friends/family/kids struggling to compete and then showing up to play teams with more seniors than you have kids. That isn't a talent/hardwork issue; it's a numbers/safety issue.

Ok... So you think it is ok for the the schools that have 10 Seniors,12 juniors, 8 Soph and 12 Freshman... play teams that have 38 senior 35 Juniors? Maybe it is... I don't know. If you look at CC.... they are graduating around 30 seniors this year. So basically they will be a 500 team next year so let's put them up against St. Mary's, Devils Lake, Valley City, Jamestown, South and North Fargo......
Well that does not make sense to me.

My kids will play anyone because they know about the process and dedication it takes to just play football. If things come together you win.... if they don't ... you don't.

I don't have the correct answer but I think this year's teams have been great and I don't know how it would be more competitive. Kindred has won by a total of 5 points in the playoff's. CC who is the biggest went home... Harvey lost kids before playoffs... Who in this league can take a loss of 2 of the best players on the team.... NO ONE.

For the record,CC has 11 seniors on their football roster.

Once again an embellishment of argument is caught…I see 59 on roster with 12 seniors…lots of juniors & sophomores on roster that got playing time this year as well

For reference…St. Mary’s has a roster of 40 players and 20 seniors (they likely have a few more than 40…JV doesn’t seem to be listed on NDHSAA)

Hard to imagine there are many teams in 11A or 11B that have 30+ seniors on roster
Legacy has 32, Century 26…most in 11AA

[The Schwab]

Kindred has more kids 9-12 today then what you posted so I don't know what those stats mean.

My opinion still is Kindred, Cass should not be in the same region as Edgeley or Linton.

Kindred and Cass have more in common with St. Mary's, Wahpeton, Valley City etc.

I was using the most recent numbers available to the public on ND DPI. They were from the 2020-21 school year. If nothing changed (which I know is impossible), moving the 8th graders up and dropping the seniors from the numbers both schools would have an increase of 5 students. Which would throw off the percentages but they would remain relatively similar

edited to add:

The point I was trying to make was while both schools have experienced similar enrollment percentage growth, one school has went up a division and one has went down a division.

[ND Sports Fan]

You have 22 seniors and more than 50 kids on your team and likely would have won the AA state title (the level you have been one of the best teams at for years)...........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................Just as the Grand Forks schools and fargo schools being uncompetitive was supposed to be considered............................................................................................................

Very few fight for the little schools. So it is a hill I'm willing to die on. You don't have to agree with me but that probably means you aren't from or don't have friends/family/kids struggling to compete and then showing up to play teams with more seniors than you have kids. That isn't a talent/hardwork issue; it's a numbers/safety issue.

So let me clearly understand your position. In the former AA system, Central Cass (under 300: 9-12) should play Jamestown (under 1000: 9-12), that you are good with, but Linton should not play Central Cass in the current 11-B system.

Your logic is what????

I would tell you, having 2 class B schools play each other, rather than have a class B school play a class A school makes a lot more sense. BTW: when is the last time Central Cass was a football power with all of their high enrollment? 1980 was their last football state championship. IF you are from a small school, you cry foul, but you are happy to have a the middle man (Central Cass) take on the Class A schools, because it doesn't affect you. Seems about right!!!

[ND Sports Fan]

You have 22 seniors and more than 50 kids on your team and likely would have won the AA state title (the level you have been one of the best teams at for years)...........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................Just as the Grand Forks schools and fargo schools being uncompetitive was supposed to be considered............................................................................................................

Very few fight for the little schools. So it is a hill I'm willing to die on. You don't have to agree with me but that probably means you aren't from or don't have friends/family/kids struggling to compete and then showing up to play teams with more seniors than you have kids. That isn't a talent/hardwork issue; it's a numbers/safety issue.

Ok... So you think it is ok for the the schools that have 10 Seniors,12 juniors, 8 Soph and 12 Freshman... play teams that have 38 senior 35 Juniors? Maybe it is... I don't know. If you look at CC.... they are graduating around 30 seniors this year. So basically they will be a 500 team next year so let's put them up against St. Mary's, Devils Lake, Valley City, Jamestown, South and North Fargo......
Well that does not make sense to me.

My kids will play anyone because they know about the process and dedication it takes to just play football. If things come together you win.... if they don't ... you don't.

I don't have the correct answer but I think this year's teams have been great and I don't know how it would be more competitive. Kindred has won by a total of 5 points in the playoff's. CC who is the biggest went home... Harvey lost kids before playoffs... Who in this league can take a loss of 2 of the best players on the team.... NO ONE.

For the record,CC has 11 seniors on their football roster.

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story. It's better to exaggerate and say they have 30 seniors and are a football power, than to be honest and say they have 11 seniors and lost in the quarterfinals of the playoffs.

When these arguments are made in PASSION rather than FACT, all best are off.

[The Schwab]

You have 22 seniors and more than 50 kids on your team and likely would have won the AA state title (the level you have been one of the best teams at for years)...........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................Just as the Grand Forks schools and fargo schools being uncompetitive was supposed to be considered............................................................................................................

Very few fight for the little schools. So it is a hill I'm willing to die on. You don't have to agree with me but that probably means you aren't from or don't have friends/family/kids struggling to compete and then showing up to play teams with more seniors than you have kids. That isn't a talent/hardwork issue; it's a numbers/safety issue.

So let me clearly understand your position. In the former AA system, Central Cass (under 300: 9-12) should play Jamestown (under 1000: 9-12), that you are good with, but Linton should not play Central Cass in the current 11-B system.

Your logic is what????

I would tell you, having 2 class B schools play each other, rather than have a class B school play a class A school makes a lot more sense. BTW: when is the last time Central Cass was a football power with all of their high enrollment? 1980 was their last football state championship. IF you are from a small school, you cry foul, but you are happy to have a the middle man (Central Cass) take on the Class A schools, because it doesn't affect you. Seems about right!!!

One could make an argument that the make up of Central Cass is closer to that of Jamestown than it is to Linton.

[Flying Wallenda]

You have 22 seniors and more than 50 kids on your team and likely would have won the AA state title (the level you have been one of the best teams at for years)...........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................Just as the Grand Forks schools and fargo schools being uncompetitive was supposed to be considered............................................................................................................

Very few fight for the little schools. So it is a hill I'm willing to die on. You don't have to agree with me but that probably means you aren't from or don't have friends/family/kids struggling to compete and then showing up to play teams with more seniors than you have kids. That isn't a talent/hardwork issue; it's a numbers/safety issue.

So let me clearly understand your position. In the former AA system, Central Cass (under 300: 9-12) should play Jamestown (under 1000: 9-12), that you are good with, but Linton should not play Central Cass in the current 11-B system.

Your logic is what????

I would tell you, having 2 class B schools play each other, rather than have a class B school play a class A school makes a lot more sense. BTW: when is the last time Central Cass was a football power with all of their high enrollment? 1980 was their last football state championship. IF you are from a small school, you cry foul, but you are happy to have a the middle man (Central Cass) take on the Class A schools, because it doesn't affect you. Seems about right!!!

One could make an argument that the make up of Central Cass is closer to that of Jamestown than it is to Linton.

2021 Enrollment figures as on NDHSAA website:
Jamestown/Medina: 415
Central Cass: 152
Linton/HMB/Strasburg/Zeeland: 90

[The Schwab]

You have 22 seniors and more than 50 kids on your team and likely would have won the AA state title (the level you have been one of the best teams at for years)...........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................Just as the Grand Forks schools and fargo schools being uncompetitive was supposed to be considered............................................................................................................

Very few fight for the little schools. So it is a hill I'm willing to die on. You don't have to agree with me but that probably means you aren't from or don't have friends/family/kids struggling to compete and then showing up to play teams with more seniors than you have kids. That isn't a talent/hardwork issue; it's a numbers/safety issue.

So let me clearly understand your position. In the former AA system, Central Cass (under 300: 9-12) should play Jamestown (under 1000: 9-12), that you are good with, but Linton should not play Central Cass in the current 11-B system.

Your logic is what????

I would tell you, having 2 class B schools play each other, rather than have a class B school play a class A school makes a lot more sense. BTW: when is the last time Central Cass was a football power with all of their high enrollment? 1980 was their last football state championship. IF you are from a small school, you cry foul, but you are happy to have a the middle man (Central Cass) take on the Class A schools, because it doesn't affect you. Seems about right!!!

One could make an argument that the make up of Central Cass is closer to that of Jamestown than it is to Linton.

2021 Enrollment figures as on NDHSAA website:
Jamestown/Medina: 415
Central Cass: 152
Linton/HMB/Strasburg/Zeeland: 90

Notice that I didn't say enrollment numbers. I'm well aware that they are closer in enrollment to Linton than Jamestown.

If we want to play that game.

Fargo Shanley has 214 per NDHSAA and they are in class 11AA where the next smallest school has 611.

The make up of the school has as much to do with success as the enrollment.

[WalkingStick]

Just to be clear...since it was brought up in earlier posts; Kindred & Central Cass have never been football powers vs. AA opponents or Class B opponents...a few good years here and there but never sustained success.

[The Schwab]

Just to be clear...since it was brought up in earlier posts; Kindred & Central Cass have never been football powers vs. AA opponents or Class B opponents...a few good years here and there but never sustained success.

One could argue that 9 playoff berths in 11 years is sustained success and that 6 playoff berths in 11 years is an above average program.