2022 Preliminary Plan

[ChickenNuggets]

https://ndhsaa.com/uploads/files/2021_2 ... egions.pdf

Preliminary plan for next year put out on NDHSAA today.

Bottineau, Ray/Powers Lake, and Kenmare up from 9-man.

[WalkingStick]

Northern Cass shifts to a more favorable travel region with Bottineau moving into the NE region and Rugby coming back to the east because of R/PL & K-B-BC

It's interesting...

[maddog1971]

They should let NC move down to 9 man. They can not get the kids out for the program. to many kids worrying about getting hurt for Basketball.... I

[WalkingStick]

They should let NC move down to 9 man. They can not get the kids out for the program. to many kids worrying about getting hurt for Basketball.... I

same could be said about many bottom programs in 11B right now (Heart River, Park River-FL, Oak Grove, Ellendale/Edgeley-Kulm, etc.) ...BUT we know that one of those schools listed is one that none of you would ever allow to play 9-man anyways even though they have very little recent success in football and everyone wants them to suffer. Don't get me wrong...the school would likely stay in 11-man anyways but they fit the same argument given above.

Williston is a large school...but they just don't compete in 11AA; Valley City and Watford City don't compete in the 11A level because of numbers and such...should they be allowed to move down to the B level so they can compete?

You make that exception for them then everyone may want it...that's why a system should be in place that is equal to all schools...beneficial or not for them. It's unfortunate but lines have to be drawn somewhere

[defensewinsgames]

I hate the new plan. It is stupid. Here is why:

1. Changing a schedule/re-regioning after one year is dumb: Non-region games with the teams you played last year are gone. There was no chance given for home-and-home series to be played. So one team traveled 3+ hours to play a game with the expectation that next year the favor will be returned (now it won't be). You traveled all over the state to play? Tough you will not get that game at home this year. Team A may travel to Team B for the 3rd year in a row because there have been two re-regionings in the last 2 years. Many teams will travel places in back to back years.

2. "Bye" weeks of non-region play in the middle of the schedule is not good: It leaves you with about 2 options to fill a game: So teams will have to decide if they want to schedule a team from the region opposite them that has their bye or leave it open. Could lead to very uncompetitive games being scheduled that are good for neither school but has to happen or a week will be left open. So region 1 and region 2 teams have week 3 bye they are supposed to play each other. Too bad if that means HCV plays Oak Grove or Kindred plays Park River - that is what is open. Or you can try and convince a team out west with the same bye to come. So Oak Grove may be able to choose between HCV, Beulah, and Bishop Ryan (lucky ducks!). Or you can try and find a Minnesota school (but they will be in the middle of conference play for most weeks). Or you try and play out of class.

3. "The benefit of the new plan (2021) is it will put teams at the same level they play basketball and so matchups and rivalries and things will be better" - Bull. One year later teams are moving again and schedules are different. Regions are different. This argument shoved down our throats this year was dumb from the jump and a change again already proves it was garbage. No chance to develop any sort of continuity if regions change every year with teams moving: up, down, east, west, north, south.

I know no plan is going to be perfect and I really do appreciate that but this is bordering on ridiculous. The single dumbest plan ever created is one where teams can move every year and so every year the rest of the state is subject to the whims of the few on the bubble, one where the teams have minimal control over their schedules to adjust for how competitive you will be, and where there is so little consistency you cannot have home-and-home matchups. This is the plan we have. Take a listen to Izzo's podcast once. He asks every high school coach he has on what they think of the plan and the only ones I have heard say that they like it are the AA schools that moved to single A. Every other coach has said it isn't good. I know coaches shouldn't have control of everything but if 98% of coaches in the state hate it......there might be a problem..... A chunk of AAA schools were trying to coordinate a boycott of playing those teams who opted down to AA because it is so bad and they were so upset about it. Awful, terrible, no good, bad plan that was attempting to fix a problem that wasn't there. North Dakota football wasn't broken, but it is now! Congrats guys, you really did it!

Rant over...

[The Schwab]

The above post is absolutely spot on.

[Bisonguy06]

The current plan is far too complicated for its own good.
If the plan doesn't fit into one tweet/280 characters, it's too much.
Keep it Simple, Stupid.

Here's a better, simpler plan:

AAA = Grades 7-10 male enrollment 450+
AA = Grades 7-10 male enrollment 150-449
A = Grades 7-10 male enrollment 75-149
9 man = Grades 7-10 male enrollment under 75

No enrollment multipliers, no QRF.
Co-op as needed.
You can opt up.
You cannot opt down.
You can opt out to play an independent schedule.

---

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... ingle=true

Based on preliminary 2022 data, this plan would result in the following:

AAA (450+) = 14 teams, Balanced with 7 in the east and 7 in the west
Minot the largest; Fargo South the smallest (532)

AA (150-449) = 10 teams, one statewide division. Possible opt-up from Shanley.
Jamestown the largest (413); Central Cass the smallest (158). Horace lands here at 169 and growing rapidly

A (75-149) = 38 teams, Kindred being the largest, with potential to grow into AA.

9 man (under 75) = 42 teams; 6 currently play 6 man

---

I think the KISS plan is, without question, better than what we currently have in place.
In so many ways, I think it is both fair and flexible.
Now, tell me where I've gone wrong.

[3sportfan]

74 student enrollment gap in 1 class, 299 in the next. what happens if you even that out a bit. I'm not sure where you end up with team numbers wise but seems that the gap could be evened out some.

[WalkingStick]

74 student enrollment gap in 1 class, 299 in the next. what happens if you even that out a bit. I'm not sure where you end up with team numbers wise but seems that the gap could be evened out some.

well you only have 10 teams in that 299 difference Class...if you make that smaller the division would be even smaller. If you add to the 74 student enrollment gap to make it larger and more balanced you start getting closer to what we have now

Honestly the numbers given originally are pretty solid for the demographics/population of our state.

[Bisonguy06]

74 student enrollment gap in 1 class, 299 in the next. what happens if you even that out a bit. I'm not sure where you end up with team numbers wise but seems that the gap could be evened out some.

A consistent raw enrollment number is not the goal. A consistent ratio is the goal. Each time enrollment doubles from 75 on up, we add a division. However to capture enough teams to fill AA, we had to multiply by three rather than two.

At the very top, Minot is roughly double the size of Fargo south.

Jamestown is really the only enrollment misfit. They are roughly 2 1/2 times larger than the smallest AA school. And Minot is roughly 2 1/2 times larger than Jamestown.

[The Schwab]

I do think that there needs to be more taken into account than just enrollment.

Fargo Shanley has just over 200 boys, Minot has just over 1100 boys. Fargo Shanley is 3-3 and Minot is 2-4.

I do feel that there should be more teams moving up a class based on success then teams being moved down based on a lack of success.

I don't think there will ever be a perfect system, but the one currently being used is not good.

[Bisonguy06]

My hunch is that Shanley would continue to opt up.

[WalkingStick]

My hunch is that Shanley would continue to opt up.

As long as the current coach is there and any of his staff has the job after him...the current staff wants to play the best teams. The staff and players devote their time to being in the weight room and improving; with that commitment they have proven that they belong in the Top Class.

Side Note: It is about time Minot breaks into two schools...I'm still amazed they haven't

[maddog1971]

My hunch is that Shanley would continue to opt up.

As long as the current coach is there and any of his staff has the job after him...the current staff wants to play the best teams. The staff and players devote their time to being in the weight room and improving; with that commitment they have proven that they belong in the Top Class.

Side Note: It is about time Minot breaks into two schools...I'm still amazed they haven't

BUT Shanley is pulling kids from a population of a 100,000 people if not more. Not saying but I am saying.... they get top players... not saying those kids don't earn it because they do.... EARN IT.
Same thing with St. Mary's..... They get top players and they make the kids EARN IT.

[WalkingStick]

My hunch is that Shanley would continue to opt up.

As long as the current coach is there and any of his staff has the job after him...the current staff wants to play the best teams. The staff and players devote their time to being in the weight room and improving; with that commitment they have proven that they belong in the Top Class.

Side Note: It is about time Minot breaks into two schools...I'm still amazed they haven't

BUT Shanley is pulling kids from a population of a 100,000 people if not more. Not saying but I am saying.... they get top players... not saying those kids don't earn it because they do.... EARN IT.
Same thing with St. Mary's..... They get top players and they make the kids EARN IT.

Yep they get kids from a larger population base as the only Catholic-based school in that population that has several elementary schools that feed into it…they belong in the top Classes and it’s what they want too

[The Schwab]

My hunch is that Shanley would continue to opt up.

As long as the current coach is there and any of his staff has the job after him...the current staff wants to play the best teams. The staff and players devote their time to being in the weight room and improving; with that commitment they have proven that they belong in the Top Class.

Side Note: It is about time Minot breaks into two schools...I'm still amazed they haven't

BUT Shanley is pulling kids from a population of a 100,000 people if not more. Not saying but I am saying.... they get top players... not saying those kids don't earn it because they do.... EARN IT.
Same thing with St. Mary's..... They get top players and they make the kids EARN IT.

Obviously all of their kids are "open enrolled" because they don't have defined district lines. I would be curious how many open enrolled students from Fargo attend the school districts surrounding Fargo. I don't have that data, but I would be curious.

[NDPREP]

My hunch is that Shanley would continue to opt up.

As long as the current coach is there and any of his staff has the job after him...the current staff wants to play the best teams. The staff and players devote their time to being in the weight room and improving; with that commitment they have proven that they belong in the Top Class.

Side Note: It is about time Minot breaks into two schools...I'm still amazed they haven't

BUT Shanley is pulling kids from a population of a 100,000 people if not more. Not saying but I am saying.... they get top players... not saying those kids don't earn it because they do.... EARN IT.
Same thing with St. Mary's..... They get top players and they make the kids EARN IT.

Obviously all of their kids are "open enrolled" because they don't have defined district lines. I would be curious how many open enrolled students from Fargo attend the school districts surrounding Fargo. I don't have that data, but I would be curious.

I remember Thompson released something about this a few years ago and they had lost about the same amount they gained to the grand forks schools. Not the same just found it interesting.

[WalkingStick]

My hunch is that Shanley would continue to opt up.

As long as the current coach is there and any of his staff has the job after him...the current staff wants to play the best teams. The staff and players devote their time to being in the weight room and improving; with that commitment they have proven that they belong in the Top Class.

Side Note: It is about time Minot breaks into two schools...I'm still amazed they haven't

BUT Shanley is pulling kids from a population of a 100,000 people if not more. Not saying but I am saying.... they get top players... not saying those kids don't earn it because they do.... EARN IT.
Same thing with St. Mary's..... They get top players and they make the kids EARN IT.

Obviously all of their kids are "open enrolled" because they don't have defined district lines. I would be curious how many open enrolled students from Fargo attend the school districts surrounding Fargo. I don't have that data, but I would be curious.

I remember Thompson released something about this a few years ago and they had lost about the same amount they gained to the grand forks schools. Not the same just found it interesting.

Far southern Grand Forks is technically within Thompson's district 'lines'...I learned that two years ago...so you could live in the newly developing side of Grand Forks and be within Thompson's district...so those kids can choose between GFRR & Thompson

[maddog1971]

My hunch is that Shanley would continue to opt up.

As long as the current coach is there and any of his staff has the job after him...the current staff wants to play the best teams. The staff and players devote their time to being in the weight room and improving; with that commitment they have proven that they belong in the Top Class.

Side Note: It is about time Minot breaks into two schools...I'm still amazed they haven't

BUT Shanley is pulling kids from a population of a 100,000 people if not more. Not saying but I am saying.... they get top players... not saying those kids don't earn it because they do.... EARN IT.
Same thing with St. Mary's..... They get top players and they make the kids EARN IT.

Obviously all of their kids are "open enrolled" because they don't have defined district lines. I would be curious how many open enrolled students from Fargo attend the school districts surrounding Fargo. I don't have that data, but I would be curious.

It really goes both ways. People outside of Fargo send their kids to Oak Grove, Shanley or Davies.... A couple years ago a couple kids that should have been playing in another school outside Fargo came to Shanley to play football and they were both all state.

[classB4ever]

My hunch is that Shanley would continue to opt up.

As long as the current coach is there and any of his staff has the job after him...the current staff wants to play the best teams. The staff and players devote their time to being in the weight room and improving; with that commitment they have proven that they belong in the Top Class.

Side Note: It is about time Minot breaks into two schools...I'm still amazed they haven't

BUT Shanley is pulling kids from a population of a 100,000 people if not more. Not saying but I am saying.... they get top players... not saying those kids don't earn it because they do.... EARN IT.
Same thing with St. Mary's..... They get top players and they make the kids EARN IT.

Have kept a lot of stats, information, etc. over the years for discussion on this website. I can start a new one. Will add to list as time goes on.

Teams whose players EARN their way:
1. Kindred
2. Shanley
3. St. Mary's

[packers21]

My hunch is that Shanley would continue to opt up.

As long as the current coach is there and any of his staff has the job after him...the current staff wants to play the best teams. The staff and players devote their time to being in the weight room and improving; with that commitment they have proven that they belong in the Top Class.

Side Note: It is about time Minot breaks into two schools...I'm still amazed they haven't

BUT Shanley is pulling kids from a population of a 100,000 people if not more. Not saying but I am saying.... they get top players... not saying those kids don't earn it because they do.... EARN IT.
Same thing with St. Mary's..... They get top players and they make the kids EARN IT.

Have kept a lot of stats, information, etc. over the years for discussion on this website. I can start a new one. Will add to list as time goes on.

Teams whose players EARN their way:
1. Kindred
2. Shanley
3. St. Mary's

[The Schwab]

My hunch is that Shanley would continue to opt up.

As long as the current coach is there and any of his staff has the job after him...the current staff wants to play the best teams. The staff and players devote their time to being in the weight room and improving; with that commitment they have proven that they belong in the Top Class.

Side Note: It is about time Minot breaks into two schools...I'm still amazed they haven't

BUT Shanley is pulling kids from a population of a 100,000 people if not more. Not saying but I am saying.... they get top players... not saying those kids don't earn it because they do.... EARN IT.
Same thing with St. Mary's..... They get top players and they make the kids EARN IT.

Have kept a lot of stats, information, etc. over the years for discussion on this website. I can start a new one. Will add to list as time goes on.

Teams whose players EARN their way:
1. Kindred
2. Shanley
3. St. Mary's

Best post of the year.

[WalkingStick]

My hunch is that Shanley would continue to opt up.

As long as the current coach is there and any of his staff has the job after him...the current staff wants to play the best teams. The staff and players devote their time to being in the weight room and improving; with that commitment they have proven that they belong in the Top Class.

Side Note: It is about time Minot breaks into two schools...I'm still amazed they haven't

BUT Shanley is pulling kids from a population of a 100,000 people if not more. Not saying but I am saying.... they get top players... not saying those kids don't earn it because they do.... EARN IT.
Same thing with St. Mary's..... They get top players and they make the kids EARN IT.

Have kept a lot of stats, information, etc. over the years for discussion on this website. I can start a new one. Will add to list as time goes on.

Teams whose players EARN their way:
1. Kindred
2. Shanley
3. St. Mary's

BAM! Nice

[maddog1971]

My hunch is that Shanley would continue to opt up.

As long as the current coach is there and any of his staff has the job after him...the current staff wants to play the best teams. The staff and players devote their time to being in the weight room and improving; with that commitment they have proven that they belong in the Top Class.

Side Note: It is about time Minot breaks into two schools...I'm still amazed they haven't

BUT Shanley is pulling kids from a population of a 100,000 people if not more. Not saying but I am saying.... they get top players... not saying those kids don't earn it because they do.... EARN IT.
Same thing with St. Mary's..... They get top players and they make the kids EARN IT.

Have kept a lot of stats, information, etc. over the years for discussion on this website. I can start a new one. Will add to list as time goes on.

Teams whose players EARN their way:
1. Kindred
2. Shanley
3. St. Mary's

4. Oak Grove ( I guess they are Ok because they have a bad football program)
5. Hillsboro
6. Central Cass
7. Thompson


Those towns also get the best players from Fargo and GF.

And in those schools you don't get to play if you don't live in the weight room, in the gym, if you are not training year round for every sport you are in.... YOU Dont play.
BY the way has anyone of you ever spent any time in Beulah.... those KIDS EARN IT.

[WalkingStick]

The weight room is more like a 'wait room' at one of those schools for all sports