2022 Preliminary Plan

[The Schwab]

Updated teams that EARN it:

1. Kindred
2. Fargo Shanley
3. Bismarck St. Marys
4. Fargo Oak Grove
5. Hillsboro
6. Central Cass
7. Thompson

These are the schools that also get the BEST players from Fargo and GF.

Also, yes I have been to Beulah. Many times. Great athletic culture. Are also the big fish in a little pond.

[maddog1971]

Can we add Langdon on this list as well? I know they long ways away from GF and Fargo but can we complain about them because they win all the time state all the time. There has to be an unfair advantage they have as well. Like the other schools on your list that win state every year......

[packers21]

Can we add Langdon on this list as well? I know they long ways away from GF and Fargo but can we complain about them because they win all the time state all the time. There has to be an unfair advantage they have as well. Like the other schools on your list that win state every year......

Langdon is about 5 years removed from a 10 year or so run where they were horrible and didnt win.

[The Schwab]

Can we add Langdon on this list as well? I know they long ways away from GF and Fargo but can we complain about them because they win all the time state all the time. There has to be an unfair advantage they have as well. Like the other schools on your list that win state every year......

We sure can add them to the list! BTW this isn't my list, I have said zero things about kids earning it or not earning it. Would you like me to add Beulah to the list as well? Do Central Valley kids earn it, or do they enjoy the ride because of the Hillsboro kids that earn it?

[classB4ever]

Can we add Langdon on this list as well? I know they long ways away from GF and Fargo but can we complain about them because they win all the time state all the time. There has to be an unfair advantage they have as well. Like the other schools on your list that win state every year......

Don't you understand why you are getting blowback?

Let's say Mr. Football of ND is a QB, the guy that spends entire year in weight room and working out. Put him on a team that doesn't have the number of athletes around him to compete and be successful, does that make him any less of an athlete? Because they are not winning, he didn't EARN it? I don't care how good of an athlete he is, if he doesn't have a line to block for him and a receiver to catch his passes, he probably won't finish the year in the playoffs.

You have in the past and more recently stated the only reason for success of some of these ELITE programs are because their athletes out work, out lift and put in more time training than all other schools and athletes. Could it be they also benefit from their location and ability to fill out their rosters with more above average athletes than their competition across the state? Asking for a friend.

This is not about taking away from the success of good programs, it's about realizing there are good and hard working athletes across the state that have to play the hand they are dealt. Which often means getting their butts whooped to be able to participate in a sport they love to play.

[packers21]

Can we add Langdon on this list as well? I know they long ways away from GF and Fargo but can we complain about them because they win all the time state all the time. There has to be an unfair advantage they have as well. Like the other schools on your list that win state every year......

Don't you understand why you are getting blowback?

Let's say Mr. Football of ND is a QB, the guy that spends entire year in weight room and working out. Put him on a team that doesn't have the number of athletes around him to compete and be successful, does that make him any less of an athlete? Because they are not winning, he didn't EARN it? I don't care how good of an athlete he is, if he doesn't have a line to block for him and a receiver to catch his passes, he probably won't finish the year in the playoffs.

You have in the past and more recently stated the only reason for success of some of these ELITE programs are because their athletes out work, out lift and put in more time training than all other schools and athletes. Could it be they also benefit from their location and ability to fill out their rosters with more above average athletes than their competition across the state? Asking for a friend.

This is not about taking away from the success of good programs, it's about realizing there are good and hard working athletes across the state that have to play the hand they are dealt. Which often means getting their butts whooped to be able to participate in a sport they love to play.

[maddog1971]

Can we add Langdon on this list as well? I know they long ways away from GF and Fargo but can we complain about them because they win all the time state all the time. There has to be an unfair advantage they have as well. Like the other schools on your list that win state every year......

Don't you understand why you are getting blowback?

Let's say Mr. Football of ND is a QB, the guy that spends entire year in weight room and working out. Put him on a team that doesn't have the number of athletes around him to compete and be successful, does that make him any less of an athlete? Because they are not winning, he didn't EARN it? I don't care how good of an athlete he is, if he doesn't have a line to block for him and a receiver to catch his passes, he probably won't finish the year in the playoffs.

You have in the past and more recently stated the only reason for success of some of these ELITE programs are because their athletes out work, out lift and put in more time training than all other schools and athletes. Could it be they also benefit from their location and ability to fill out their rosters with more above average athletes than their competition across the state? Asking for a friend.

This is not about taking away from the success of good programs, it's about realizing there are good and hard working athletes across the state that have to play the hand they are dealt. Which often means getting their butts whooped to be able to participate in a sport they love to play.

I completely agree that number are a huge part of football. The more kids you can get into your program and get them buying into your program the better chance at success. I believe there are alot of bad programs out there... and yes Kindred and Central Cass have been part of the BAD as well. They have coaching staff for the last ten years that have got the kids involved. AND neither one of those schools have ever won a State championship. AS a matter of Fact..... Kindred has never even won a Region championship before.
Hillsboro CENTRAL VALLEY, Harvey, Velva and Beulah are the types of schools that have built programs that have success for 30 years. They have programs and their kids earn it. It is their culture.

It does get under my skin when all the 10 people left on this site can talk about is how unfair everything is and the only reason Thompson, HCV, CC and Kindred ever do anything is just because they are close to Fargo or GF.....

[The Schwab]

Can we add Langdon on this list as well? I know they long ways away from GF and Fargo but can we complain about them because they win all the time state all the time. There has to be an unfair advantage they have as well. Like the other schools on your list that win state every year......

Don't you understand why you are getting blowback?

Let's say Mr. Football of ND is a QB, the guy that spends entire year in weight room and working out. Put him on a team that doesn't have the number of athletes around him to compete and be successful, does that make him any less of an athlete? Because they are not winning, he didn't EARN it? I don't care how good of an athlete he is, if he doesn't have a line to block for him and a receiver to catch his passes, he probably won't finish the year in the playoffs.

You have in the past and more recently stated the only reason for success of some of these ELITE programs are because their athletes out work, out lift and put in more time training than all other schools and athletes. Could it be they also benefit from their location and ability to fill out their rosters with more above average athletes than their competition across the state? Asking for a friend.

This is not about taking away from the success of good programs, it's about realizing there are good and hard working athletes across the state that have to play the hand they are dealt. Which often means getting their butts whooped to be able to participate in a sport they love to play.

I completely agree that number are a huge part of football. The more kids you can get into your program and get them buying into your program the better chance at success. I believe there are alot of bad programs out there... and yes Kindred and Central Cass have been part of the BAD as well. They have coaching staff for the last ten years that have got the kids involved. AND neither one of those schools have ever won a State championship. AS a matter of Fact..... Kindred has never even won a Region championship before.
Hillsboro CENTRAL VALLEY, Harvey, Velva and Beulah are the types of schools that have built programs that have success for 30 years. They have programs and their kids earn it. It is their culture.

It does get under my skin when all the 10 people left on this site can talk about is how unfair everything is and the only reason Thompson, HCV, CC and Kindred ever do anything is just because they are close to Fargo or GF.....

If you have more students than the schools that you are competing with, you should have more sustained success. If you have 800 kids in your school system you should beat schools that have 400 kids in their system. They are successful for a multitude of reasons, but the number one reason for their sustained success is their enrollment.

[maddog1971]

Why do we even play the games? It is just a numbers games. And yes.... the number of kids in K-8 are a huge part in the program winning right now. The 1st and 2nd graders really help out the line.
I COMPLETELY AGREE that numbers are a big part in FOOTBALL. NO Question. BUT I believe Culture and Programs are a larger part in success of programs.
Don't worry the Bigger B schools will soon be with the St. Marys, Whap, Valley City and Devils lake.... and they will still compete.... they will not win but they will compete.

[packers21]

Why do we even play the games? It is just a numbers games. And yes.... the number of kids in K-8 are a huge part in the program winning right now. The 1st and 2nd graders really help out the line.
I COMPLETELY AGREE that numbers are a big part in FOOTBALL. NO Question. BUT I believe Culture and Programs are a larger part in success of programs.
Don't worry the Bigger B schools will soon be with the St. Marys, Whap, Valley City and Devils lake.... and they will still compete.... they will not win but they will compete.

It was only 2 years ago you were crying and on the other side of this argument.

[maddog1971]

Yes I said it is BS that St. Mary's, who had 36 Seniors and 35 Juniors and are playing against Schools that are playing Freshman and Soph's at 125 to 145 Lbs competing against Full grown 18 years..... I was and still am concerned over these kids safety.
I have said over and over again numbers make a difference. You can not tell me St. Mary's was playing where they belonged by basically going to and winning state every year. If a school has 250 to 300 boys to choose from and another school as 100.... that is a big numbers gap. If a school has 100 and the other schools have 88.... that is not a big gap.

[magic man]

Updated teams that EARN it:

1. Kindred
2. Fargo Shanley
3. Bismarck St. Marys
4. Fargo Oak Grove
5. Hillsboro
6. Central Cass
7. Thompson

These are the schools that also get the BEST players from Fargo and GF.

Also, yes I have been to Beulah. Many times. Great athletic culture. Are also the big fish in a little pond.

I'm curious.. How can 4 schools surrounding the Fargo area get the "best players" from Fargo? What kids are paying $10,500/year to go to Oak Grove vs $3,500 - $5,000 to go to Shanley?

How are Central Cass and Kindred getting those Fargo players?

[The Schwab]

Updated teams that EARN it:

1. Kindred
2. Fargo Shanley
3. Bismarck St. Marys
4. Fargo Oak Grove
5. Hillsboro
6. Central Cass
7. Thompson

These are the schools that also get the BEST players from Fargo and GF.

Also, yes I have been to Beulah. Many times. Great athletic culture. Are also the big fish in a little pond.

I'm curious.. How can 4 schools surrounding the Fargo area get the "best players" from Fargo? What kids are paying $10,500/year to go to Oak Grove vs $3,500 - $5,000 to go to Shanley?

How are Central Cass and Kindred getting those Fargo players?

My comments were in response to a poster who mentioned all of the comments I stated. My response was done as a joke. I don't believe that those schools are getting the best players from Fargo, but I do believe that districts surrounding Fargo are getting a lot of "fringe" athletes from Fargo.

[leroybla]

Mapleton Elementary (K-6) has 9 6th graders this year. Central Cass does not hold itself out to open enrollees. The most typical open enrollee from Fargo or West Fargo is the child of a CC teacher from Fargo. Northern Cass has a much more accommodative policy towards open enrollees as evidenced by their recent enrollment survey on NDHSAA.

[The Schwab]

Mapleton Elementary (K-6) has 9 6th graders this year. Central Cass does not hold itself out to open enrollees. The most typical open enrollee from Fargo or West Fargo is the child of a CC teacher from Fargo. Northern Cass has a much more accommodative policy towards open enrollees as evidenced by their recent enrollment survey on NDHSAA.

Very interesting point. I see in their (CC) school board minutes that last year over 15 open enrollment applications were approved and a handful of them were denied. Most schools that don't compete in the class A division for basketball and volleyball would jump at the chance to have more students in their school. The per pupil funding number is a big deal to most small schools. So the denial of open enrollment is kind of proving my point about the haves and the have nots.

[UNDSiouxfan]

Mapleton Elementary (K-6) has 9 6th graders this year. Central Cass does not hold itself out to open enrollees. The most typical open enrollee from Fargo or West Fargo is the child of a CC teacher from Fargo. Northern Cass has a much more accommodative policy towards open enrollees as evidenced by their recent enrollment survey on NDHSAA.

Good research by Schwab as he is correct.

One of the very best athletes in CC is an open-enrollee from Fargo, and his parents are not teachers at CC. Agree with it or not, this kid makes a huge difference in both the basketball & football programs as he has been a 2 year starter in both sports. On one hand, this opportunity has given a kid the chance to be a star for a smaller school. On another hand, it has taken chances away from other CC kids who are now back-ups. You can argue either way if you are a CC fan but this kid does make this program immensely better.

It's the way it is and people have to live with it, but the open enrollee program does exist to some point in CC.

[leroybla]

Mapleton Elementary (K-6) has 9 6th graders this year. Central Cass does not hold itself out to open enrollees. The most typical open enrollee from Fargo or West Fargo is the child of a CC teacher from Fargo. Northern Cass has a much more accommodative policy towards open enrollees as evidenced by their recent enrollment survey on NDHSAA.

Good research by Schwab as he is correct.

One of the very best athletes in CC is an open-enrollee from Fargo, and his parents are not teachers at CC. Agree with it or not, this kid makes a huge difference in both the basketball & football programs as he has been a 2 year starter in both sports. On one hand, this opportunity has given a kid the chance to be a star for a smaller school. On another hand, it has taken chances away from other CC kids who are now back-ups. You can argue either way if you are a CC fan but this kid does make this program immensely better.

It's the way it is and people have to live with it, but the open enrollee program does exist to some point in CC.

You may be right there. I was unaware of this. Is this the athlete that also wrestles?

[maddog1971]

Also there are kids that live in Casselton that also drive into Shanley and Oak Grove.

So the answer is put the bedroom schools in their own class so that Real Class B towns can destroy the really small class b schools? Linton HM killed everyone last year and this year getting it handed to them in 11 man. So now Linton is mad and it is not fair. Put them back in 9 man and they kill everyone... so is that fair? I listen on the radio and it sounded like their coach is none to happy to be playing where they are.

I think their are really good teams in 11B this year that will make a great playoff.....
I think Landgon EM, HCV, CC, Kindred, Beulah, Harvey/Wells, Ryan, Bowman County all have a chance. What other div. is even close to as strong.
Unlike 9 man that it is a one team race.

[Flip]

Also there are kids that live in Casselton that also drive into Shanley and Oak Grove.

So the answer is put the bedroom schools in their own class so that Real Class B towns can destroy the really small class b schools? Linton HM killed everyone last year and this year getting it handed to them in 11 man. So now Linton is mad and it is not fair. Put them back in 9 man and they kill everyone... so is that fair? I listen on the radio and it sounded like their coach is none to happy to be playing where they are.

I think their are really good teams in 11B this year that will make a great playoff.....
I think Landgon EM, HCV, CC, Kindred, Beulah, Harvey/Wells, Ryan, Bowman County all have a chance. What other div. is even close to as strong.
Unlike 9 man that it is a one team race.

I feel kind of bad for a team like Harvey that would have a decent shot at a title had they not dropped Kindred, CC, HCV, and Beulah in their class. Now, obviously, it is going to be a lot more difficult.

[ChickenNuggets]

Also there are kids that live in Casselton that also drive into Shanley and Oak Grove.

So the answer is put the bedroom schools in their own class so that Real Class B towns can destroy the really small class b schools? Linton HM killed everyone last year and this year getting it handed to them in 11 man. So now Linton is mad and it is not fair. Put them back in 9 man and they kill everyone... so is that fair? I listen on the radio and it sounded like their coach is none to happy to be playing where they are.

I think their are really good teams in 11B this year that will make a great playoff.....
I think Landgon EM, HCV, CC, Kindred, Beulah, Harvey/Wells, Ryan, Bowman County all have a chance. What other div. is even close to as strong.
Unlike 9 man that it is a one team race.

Maddog1971 Says: Linton HMB killed everyone last year and now they're getting it handed to them....

Reality is: Linton HMB went 5-2 in the regular season last year finishing 3rd in their region. Their playoff scores were 24-6, 34-0, 46-38, and 32-24. They hardly killed everyone. They also graduated their All-Time leading rusher and an All-State super athlete QB that any team would struggle to replace and they did move from 9-man to 11-man which does take time to adjust to.

Maddog1971 Says: Unlike 9 man that is a one team race....

Reality is: LaMoure looks good, but to no fault of their own, have played about the most pitiful schedule that you could put together. I wouldn't crown them yet. There's realistically 6-8 teams that could win it all this year. Yes LaMoure is the favorite right now, but New Salem, Cavalier, Surrey, Divide County, South Border, Ray-Powers Lake should all be right int he thick of things. Bottineau and Nelson County are both unbeaten as well, although I feel that they have been untested to this point, nonetheless they have run the tables so far. That's pretty darn competitive.

[Flying Wallenda]

Also there are kids that live in Casselton that also drive into Shanley and Oak Grove.

So the answer is put the bedroom schools in their own class so that Real Class B towns can destroy the really small class b schools? Linton HM killed everyone last year and this year getting it handed to them in 11 man. So now Linton is mad and it is not fair. Put them back in 9 man and they kill everyone... so is that fair? I listen on the radio and it sounded like their coach is none to happy to be playing where they are.

I think their are really good teams in 11B this year that will make a great playoff.....
I think Landgon EM, HCV, CC, Kindred, Beulah, Harvey/Wells, Ryan, Bowman County all have a chance. What other div. is even close to as strong.
Unlike 9 man that it is a one team race.

I feel kind of bad for a team like Harvey that would have a decent shot at a title had they not dropped Kindred, CC, HCV, and Beulah in their class. Now, obviously, it is going to be a lot more difficult.

Kindre/CC/Beulah would be playing up. HCV would be playing A this year regardless of the reclassification as there are 9 schools larger than them in A football this year.

[UNDSiouxfan]

leroybla, yes that is correct with wrestling also. An exceptional athlete, as he is obviously multi-talented.

As far as Linton - I believe if they were in 11B the last 2 years they would've competed with the best of them. Their QB/RB duo was that good. Teams go through cycles and the NDHSAA should've kept them at 9 man this year.

LaMoure - If you haven't seen them yet this year, they would compete with the top of 11B this year without a doubt. This is a team on a mission with very good QB play and they are very deep. They will be exceptional next year also, as they have a junior dominated class. Their TE Ness (a Jr.) is a complete player who can take over a game. It would be a mistake if the bigger schools (NDSU/UND) weren't looking at him.

and Maddog is right, 11B is by far the most competitive race this year.

[WalkingStick]

leroybla, yes that is correct with wrestling also. An exceptional athlete, as he is obviously multi-talented.

As far as Linton - I believe if they were in 11B the last 2 years they would've competed with the best of them. Their QB/RB duo was that good. Teams go through cycles and the NDHSAA should've kept them at 9 man this year.

LaMoure - If you haven't seen them yet this year, they would compete with the top of 11B this year without a doubt. This is a team on a mission with very good QB play and they are very deep. They will be exceptional next year also, as they have a junior dominated class. Their TE Ness (a Jr.) is a complete player who can take over a game. It would be a mistake if the bigger schools (NDSU/UND) weren't looking at him.

and Maddog is right, 11B is by far the most competitive race this year.

The addition of Strasburg/Zeeland caused them to go up...they had S/Z last year but it was an emergency coop within the 2-year plan and it was allowed. They would be at the 9-man level if not for S-Z's #s

[maddog1971]

Also there are kids that live in Casselton that also drive into Shanley and Oak Grove.

So the answer is put the bedroom schools in their own class so that Real Class B towns can destroy the really small class b schools? Linton HM killed everyone last year and this year getting it handed to them in 11 man. So now Linton is mad and it is not fair. Put them back in 9 man and they kill everyone... so is that fair? I listen on the radio and it sounded like their coach is none to happy to be playing where they are.

I think their are really good teams in 11B this year that will make a great playoff.....
I think Landgon EM, HCV, CC, Kindred, Beulah, Harvey/Wells, Ryan, Bowman County all have a chance. What other div. is even close to as strong.
Unlike 9 man that it is a one team race.

Maddog1971 Says: Linton HMB killed everyone last year and now they're getting it handed to them....

Reality is: Linton HMB went 5-2 in the regular season last year finishing 3rd in their region. Their playoff scores were 24-6, 34-0, 46-38, and 32-24. They hardly killed everyone. They also graduated their All-Time leading rusher and an All-State super athlete QB that any team would struggle to replace and they did move from 9-man to 11-man which does take time to adjust to.

Maddog1971 Says: Unlike 9 man that is a one team race....

Reality is: LaMoure looks good, but to no fault of their own, have played about the most pitiful schedule that you could put together. I wouldn't crown them yet. There's realistically 6-8 teams that could win it all this year. Yes LaMoure is the favorite right now, but New Salem, Cavalier, Surrey, Divide County, South Border, Ray-Powers Lake should all be right int he thick of things. Bottineau and Nelson County are both unbeaten as well, although I feel that they have been untested to this point, nonetheless they have run the tables so far. That's pretty darn competitive.

I will completely disagree that anyone has a chance but LaMoure. They will really have to fall on their face . Major weather problems will maybe give someone else a chance but I have watched them 3 times and couple others like Ray/PL, New Salem and Divide County. Good teams but LaMoure would be competing at the Top in 11B as well.

[The Schwab]

Also there are kids that live in Casselton that also drive into Shanley and Oak Grove.

So the answer is put the bedroom schools in their own class so that Real Class B towns can destroy the really small class b schools? Linton HM killed everyone last year and this year getting it handed to them in 11 man. So now Linton is mad and it is not fair. Put them back in 9 man and they kill everyone... so is that fair? I listen on the radio and it sounded like their coach is none to happy to be playing where they are.

I think their are really good teams in 11B this year that will make a great playoff.....
I think Landgon EM, HCV, CC, Kindred, Beulah, Harvey/Wells, Ryan, Bowman County all have a chance. What other div. is even close to as strong.
Unlike 9 man that it is a one team race.

Maddog1971 Says: Linton HMB killed everyone last year and now they're getting it handed to them....

Reality is: Linton HMB went 5-2 in the regular season last year finishing 3rd in their region. Their playoff scores were 24-6, 34-0, 46-38, and 32-24. They hardly killed everyone. They also graduated their All-Time leading rusher and an All-State super athlete QB that any team would struggle to replace and they did move from 9-man to 11-man which does take time to adjust to.

Maddog1971 Says: Unlike 9 man that is a one team race....

Reality is: LaMoure looks good, but to no fault of their own, have played about the most pitiful schedule that you could put together. I wouldn't crown them yet. There's realistically 6-8 teams that could win it all this year. Yes LaMoure is the favorite right now, but New Salem, Cavalier, Surrey, Divide County, South Border, Ray-Powers Lake should all be right int he thick of things. Bottineau and Nelson County are both unbeaten as well, although I feel that they have been untested to this point, nonetheless they have run the tables so far. That's pretty darn competitive.

I will completely disagree that anyone has a chance but LaMoure. They will really have to fall on their face . Major weather problems will maybe give someone else a chance but I have watched them 3 times and couple others like Ray/PL, New Salem and Divide County. Good teams but LaMoure would be competing at the Top in 11B as well.

If you gave me the option of LaMoure or the field, I'd take the field.