North Dakota Scores.net

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North Dakota Scores.net

Postby jimor » Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:49 pm

Correct me if I am wrong, Run. Is this the QRF rating site they use for the playoffs?

T-1 Hillsboro/Central Valley (6-0) 46.9
T-1 Langdon Area/Munich (6-0) 46.9
3 Velva (6-0) 43.1
4 Bishop Ryan (6-0) 40.6
5 Carrington (5-1) 39.3
6 Bowman County (6-0) 38.1
7 Kindred (4-2) 31.3
8 Dickinson Trinity (4-1) 31.0
9 Des Lacs-Burlington (4-2) 30.4
10 Beulah (6-1) 29.0
11 Harvey-Wells County (3-3) 28.7
12 NS/Milnor (4-2) 26.9
13 Rugby (3-3) 26.6
14 Lisbon (3-3) 24.9
15 Central Dakota (4-2) 24.2
16 Ellendale/Edgeley/Kulm (2-4) 23.3
17 Northern Cass (3-3) 22.4
18 Hazen (3-3) 22.3
19 Killdeer/Halliday (3-3) 19.8
20 Kenmare/Bowbells/BC (2-4) 18.1
21 Nedrose (2-4) 17.7
22 Stanley (2-4) 16.9
T-23 Oak Grove (2-4) 15.6
T-23 Park River/Fordville-Lankin (2-4) 15.6
25 Bottineau (1-5) 13.4
26 Lewis and Clark (2-4) 10.6
27 Southern McLean (1-5) 8.5
28 New Town (0-6) 7.9
29 Westhope/Newburg/Glenburn (0-6) 7.5
30 Maple Valley/Enderlin (0-6) 7.1
31 Heart River (1-5) 6.5
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Re: North Dakota Scores.net

Postby NodakQ2 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:38 pm

I believe that is correct, but only for the 4 Regional Champions. (But I've been known to be wrong on this whole FB playoff thing before! :shock: ) For example...Carrington could win out, be the #4 QRF team but would still not get a seed because they weren't a regional champion.
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Re: North Dakota Scores.net

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:20 pm

NodakQ2 wrote:I believe that is correct, but only for the 4 Regional Champions. (But I've been known to be wrong on this whole FB playoff thing before! :shock: ) For example...Carrington could win out, be the #4 QRF team but would still not get a seed because they weren't a regional champion.


This is the site being used...and yes NodakQ2 is correct (partially because we've discussed this in a different thread). 9-man uses this site to determine home seeds for like-seeds (Class A will too if it occurs...seed #1-#4 for 1 seeds helps if all 1-seeds make it...but 2-seeds could match up and then the QRF will be used for that).
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Re: North Dakota Scores.net

Postby SWsportsfan » Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:32 pm

Just took a look at this week's QRF. I have some questions regarding the equation, moreso than last week. You have Ellendale tied at 17th with a record of 2-5 and Killdeer at 19th with a record of 4-3. That seems wrong anyway you parse it out.

In addition, you have three winless teams with a higher QRF than Heart River at the bottom.
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Re: North Dakota Scores.net

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:08 pm

SWsportsfan wrote:Just took a look at this week's QRF. I have some questions regarding the equation, moreso than last week. You have Ellendale tied at 17th with a record of 2-5 and Killdeer at 19th with a record of 4-3. That seems wrong anyway you parse it out.

In addition, you have three winless teams with a higher QRF than Heart River at the bottom.


Heart River is technically a winless team as well. Their only ‘win’ was via forfeit over G-M...forfeits don’t count in formula; That is also probably affecting Killdeer. Killdeer has two wins then over winless competition so therefore that’s not helping their ‘QRF number’. One of those teams will win this week and Killdeer will gain ‘credit’ for it. EEK’s advantage is minuscule right now and will change this week as EEK plays a winless program in E/MV and Killdeer gets Hazen. I guarantee if both teams handle their business...that Killdeer will move up and EEK will move down
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Re: North Dakota Scores.net

Postby NodakQ2 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:50 pm

Langdon taking over the #1 spot will shake up the playoff spots a bit. I think everyone assumed Hillsboro had a lock on the #1 seed.
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Re: North Dakota Scores.net

Postby B-oldtimer » Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:49 pm

How does it play out if both Langdon and Hillsboro both win this weekend on their ratings? I see Langdon plays Park river at number 24 and Hillsboro plays Oak Grove at number 22. Both Langdon and Hillsboro play on the road. Does the margin of victory and so forth play in qualifying number. Because last week Langdon opponent was place ahead of Hillsboro opponent both won very handily in there games but Langdon pull ahead of Hillsboro where they had been tied. With the seeding factor its puts pressure on all teams in race to win even this weekend when a lot has been decided.
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Re: North Dakota Scores.net

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:06 pm

B-oldtimer wrote:How does it play out if both Langdon and Hillsboro both win this weekend on their ratings? I see Langdon plays Park river at number 24 and Hillsboro plays Oak Grove at number 22. Both Langdon and Hillsboro play on the road. Does the margin of victory and so forth play in qualifying number. Because last week Langdon opponent was place ahead of Hillsboro opponent both won very handily in there games but Langdon pull ahead of Hillsboro where they had been tied. With the seeding factor its puts pressure on all teams in race to win even this weekend when a lot has been decided.


Margin of victory does NOT matter! IMO, Langdon is ahead of HCV because of the strength (win total) of their non-conference opponent (Lisbon - 3 wins compared to PR - 2 wins). HCV plays a higher win team this week so that may bring HCV closer...don’t overlook Velva though if they beat BR as their non-conference opponent has 4 wins. Could get interesting in final week
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Re: North Dakota Scores.net

Postby B-oldtimer » Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:26 pm

That's why I was wondering because it seems having the number one seed means that your playing at home except for the last game of the year. I didn't think of Velva catching Langdon if Langdon won out because of the spread but maybe like you said with big game Velva playing they maybe could catch Langdon. But I would think that Hillsboro and Langdon both could be worried because getting number 3 seed could mean they have to travel in the semifinals. You want to play at home because its always advantage. The worst part is that all four regions will likely have unbeaten teams all deserving of having home field advantage but they will have opportunity to advance and prove it on the field. The one problem I see is that its likely going to east to west teams for both semifinal games unless we get some upsets before that. This means two of teams are likely have long road trip to play their opponents.
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Re: North Dakota Scores.net

Postby The Schwab » Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:31 pm

If they want to use a QRF to rank like seeded teams that's just fine in my opinion, IF they let the schools know what the formula is. It shouldn't be a secret.
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Re: North Dakota Scores.net

Postby NodakQ2 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:04 pm

So...For those "in the know"...If Hillsboro, Langdon and Velva all win this weekend, who is #1?
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Re: North Dakota Scores.net

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:30 pm

NodakQ2 wrote:So...For those "in the know"...If Hillsboro, Langdon and Velva all win this weekend, who is #1?


Depends on how their opponents from the season do as well..so can’t definitively state who without games being played
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Re: North Dakota Scores.net

Postby Class B » Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:46 pm

Run4Fun2009 wrote:
NodakQ2 wrote:So...For those "in the know"...If Hillsboro, Langdon and Velva all win this weekend, who is #1?


Depends on how their opponents from the season do as well..so can’t definitively state who without games being played


Without knowing the formula, it seems to me Velva is in the drivers seat for the #1 spot if they get past Ryan and Harvey takes care of business against Rugby... strictly based on records and non-conf opponents comparison. Ryan on the other hand would only have the record but will lack the quality non-conf win... so the best they would be is #3?
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Re: North Dakota Scores.net

Postby Flip » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:40 pm

The Schwab wrote:If they want to use a QRF to rank like seeded teams that's just fine in my opinion, IF they let the schools know what the formula is. It shouldn't be a secret.

what would change if schools knew the formula?
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Re: North Dakota Scores.net

Postby B-oldtimer » Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:48 pm

Class B how do figure if Velva wins they are in drivers seat. First is they have one only common opponent they have played with Langdon and that opponent is Harvey. Both of them beat Harvey with similar margins of victory and I know the points that Harvey scored on Langdon came late against their second team not their starters. Second Hillsboro has no common opponent and none of their region teams played region 3 team. So hard to determine how the regions stack up against each other. Third is Region 2 teams that played region three teams lost but they also lost to Langdon by wide margins so hard to get handle here again which teams are better from region to region. Region 4 teams did not play region 2 teams and region 4 only played a couple a games against region 1 but they lost to region 1. Region 4 did play some of region 3 teams but no top teams played each other. This is why I find this ranking of teams I think becomes very difficult when there has bee so little play between the regions. This brings up question will the ranking of teams correct or we get what they trying to avoid semifinal game that where the two best teams meet instead of the championship game. Yes things will be settled on the field but home field advantages are important could be the difference between two teams. I don't know the answers here and maybe there is no solution to this.
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Re: North Dakota Scores.net

Postby NodakQ2 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:31 pm

My .02, for what it’s worth...The system is a “fail” if Velva goes to #1. IMO, the West is not as strong as the East this year. If Velva goes to #1, you will have the THREE best teams in State in the same bracket. Flame away... :shock:
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Re: North Dakota Scores.net

Postby Class B » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:04 am

B-oldtimer wrote:Class B how do figure if Velva wins they are in drivers seat. First is they have one only common opponent they have played with Langdon and that opponent is Harvey. Both of them beat Harvey with similar margins of victory and I know the points that Harvey scored on Langdon came late against their second team not their starters. Second Hillsboro has no common opponent and none of their region teams played region 3 team. So hard to determine how the regions stack up against each other. Third is Region 2 teams that played region three teams lost but they also lost to Langdon by wide margins so hard to get handle here again which teams are better from region to region. Region 4 teams did not play region 2 teams and region 4 only played a couple a games against region 1 but they lost to region 1. Region 4 did play some of region 3 teams but no top teams played each other. This is why I find this ranking of teams I think becomes very difficult when there has bee so little play between the regions. This brings up question will the ranking of teams correct or we get what they trying to avoid semifinal game that where the two best teams meet instead of the championship game. Yes things will be settled on the field but home field advantages are important could be the difference between two teams. I don't know the answers here and maybe there is no solution to this.


Scoreboard comparisons are out the window. (I'm sure Velva's JV played a considerable amount against Harvey, FWIW) We know that's not part of the formula, from what I understand from Run's comments. What we do know is record and non-conference opponents. They all have similar records (provided everyone takes care of business this week) but Velva's non-conference opponent is also in the drivers seat for a playoff spot and could pick up their 5th win... vs. Langdon and HCV's opponents with 3 and 2 wins respectively. I'm just going by what's been speculated as part of the formula. Run has made it clear that margin of victory is not part of the formula.

I do find it a bit humerous... the West won 22 straight State Titles (dating back to the old Class B 11-man) until Park River won a title in 2014. Now... any team that wins the western regions have to be apologetic for doing so?!?!?!
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Re: North Dakota Scores.net

Postby Flip » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:07 am

The QRF doesn't treat a non-region game differently than a region game.
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Re: North Dakota Scores.net

Postby The Schwab » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:39 am

Flip wrote:
The Schwab wrote:If they want to use a QRF to rank like seeded teams that's just fine in my opinion, IF they let the schools know what the formula is. It shouldn't be a secret.

what would change if schools knew the formula?


Could change non-conference scheduling if they did it like SD does with power points, if margin of victory is part of the formula that could change strategies, if points allowed is part of the formula that could change strategies, if poll rankings are part of the formula schools could schedule opponents from around the larger towns to be seen by voters, or offer to send them game film to watch. The point I'm trying to make is: if you are going to seed teams based on a formula, everyone should know what that said formula is, so there isn't any surprises.
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Re: North Dakota Scores.net

Postby owensii » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:42 am

How does the QFR treat games with opponents out of state? Games with Sisseton and Groton? In region 1, two teams played non-region games with opponents from out of state. Is that accounted for with the QFR?
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Re: North Dakota Scores.net

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:56 am

owensii wrote:How does the QFR treat games with opponents out of state? Games with Sisseton and Groton? In region 1, two teams played non-region games with opponents from out of state. Is that accounted for with the QFR?


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Re: North Dakota Scores.net

Postby Flip » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:59 am

The Schwab wrote:if margin of victory is part of the formula that could change strategies

It's not, been stated a few times in the forum and mentioned on the website
if points allowed is part of the formula that could change strategies

It's not.
if poll rankings are part of the formula...

They're not.

If you want a higher QRF schedule good teams and beat them.
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Re: North Dakota Scores.net

Postby Class B » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:22 am

Flip wrote:
The Schwab wrote:if margin of victory is part of the formula that could change strategies

It's not, been stated a few times in the forum and mentioned on the website
if points allowed is part of the formula that could change strategies

It's not.
if poll rankings are part of the formula...

They're not.

If you want a higher QRF schedule good teams and beat them.


Did Velva not do that? The only discretionary part of their schedule was Harvey... and they are a playoff team. They are being penalized because the east is subjectively better than the west? Again Velva, Bishop Ryan and Bowman County has done everything asked of them up to this point.
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Re: North Dakota Scores.net

Postby The Schwab » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:54 am

Alright Flip, since it seems to be your goal on this site to prove me wrong and make me look like an idiot.

1. The link and all of the information comes from the MINNESOTA plan, we in North Dakota can't/shouldn't adopt the plan exactly because:
A. We don't have the same number of classes and can't have a lot (if any) of out of division games, if we do have any it'd be a 9-man vs. 11-man game.
B. They don't have to schedule teams in their section/region, teams in ND do.
C. We don't use this formula to seed the playoffs like Minnesota does. They use it to seed the section tournaments and then they have some kind of randomized section alignment for the quarter-finals. I don't know for sure, because I don't follow MN closely, but I'm assuming it's not QRF as they already have the section winners and game locations assigned for the quarter finals.

We use this formula to seed teams from different areas of the state and determine home field advantage and I think it's absolutely asinine to determine the location of state semi-final games based on some stupid formula that no one knows or understands.

For instance, if everything plays out on Friday like people are expecting it will and in the first two rounds of the playoffs according to seed (I know this is a huge hypothetical). Then you are going to have Bowman having to traveling to Langdon which is 425 miles away. And all Bowman has done this year is beat everyone on their schedule to this point. They had one out of region game (New Town) who they probably have a 2-year contract with and they play them in Killdeer which is pretty close to half-way. The next closest team to them is Stanley (2 wins and 204 miles) after that you'd be scheduling either Minot area schools (250 miles roughly and they'd have to agree to scheduling them) and they can't schedule AA teams as that division only plays AA teams and no AAA teams would schedule them I'm sure. And the rest of their games have been region opponents. Not to mention the fact that they are penalized for the forfeit against Garrison-Max, out of their control as all ND schools have to schedule their regional opponents. So please tell me what Bowman should have done to avoid the potential 425 mile trip to Langdon based on a formula supposedly adopted exactly from another state who doesn't use it beyond their sectional tournaments.

However, if previous posts and previous topics are any indication you will find some reason how I'm wrong.
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Re: North Dakota Scores.net

Postby Flip » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:56 am

Class B wrote:Did Velva not do that? The only discretionary part of their schedule was Harvey... and they are a playoff team. They are being penalized because the east is subjectively better than the west? Again Velva, Bishop Ryan and Bowman County has done everything asked of them up to this point.

I don't follow this closely, so you're probably right. The biggest issue IMO with the QRF in football is you have little flexibility in your scheduling and 8 games isn't a big sample.
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