2018 Playoff Bracket

The teams in Class A

Re: 2018 Playoff Bracket

Postby The Schwab » Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:11 am

magic man wrote:
The Schwab wrote:
magic man wrote:Did anyone even say a thing about Oak Grove being in a championship? Grasping for straws now.

Bottom line is that if you or anyone else wants to complain about private schools having some kind of unfair advantage, while not talking about the advantages that is given to public schools, then you yourself are being biased.


Just one more thing on this.... So poor Oak Grove is not a State Champion in Football every few years so we need to feel bad for them That is what class B deals with all the time. Second... you know many kids get scholarships to go to private school.. when they are 6'5 and can play basketball.

I myself don't have any problem with the private schools of Fargo Shanley or Bismarck St. Mary's when it comes to any sports or even for Dickinson Trinity, Fargo Oak Grove or Minot Bishop Ryan when it comes to football, or any private school that doesn't compete in the smallest class for their sport. What advantages do public class B schools have over private class B schools?


IMO, the biggest thing that comes to mind is the reduction of the class size based free & reduced lunch. I'm of the opinion that a kid is a kid.. Just because he gets a discounted/free lunch, does not mean he can't play football. Why do I say this is an advantage to the public schools vs private? Just look at the numbers. Generally speaking, the percentage of reduction for public vs private isn't even close. This was seemingly set up to go against private schools, because it sure doesn't help give them any help. It becomes even more of an advantage when you don't take a deeper look at the numbers (speaking from a private school perspective).

How many of those male students are foreign exchange/international students? If anything, those kids should be looked at like the free/reduced lunch kids are. More than likely, those kids aren't playing football (which is what I have heard regarding the free/reduced lunch kids).
How many other sports are drawing these kids away from football in the fall? I know of a few class B/public schools that don't have any other fall sports that can pull kids away from playing football. So if a kid wants to play a sport in the fall, they only have one choice, and having that kid on the roster, helps.. Practice, drills, etc..

You don't have to pay for public school. I've heard some comment, "rich families can send their kids to camps, etc to get better." Yes, that is true, but the part that most are failing to realize is that there are some so called, "rich kids" that don't have that drive to want to do that, so even if they have that opportunity to do so, there are some that won't take advantage of it. Also, because they could be a little more financially "well off" than others, they pick up other interests. Theater, arts, etc.
If you really think about it, football is not a "rich kids" sport. Not saying that kids with money can't play football, but I'd guess there is a higher percentage of kids that come from low income, "free/reduced" lunch families, than there are kids that are well off.


I don't feel that school population should be the only factor in determining football classification. You're thinking that a "kid is a kid" doesn't really hold water to me, sorry. I have been around public school education for my entire life and I hate to say it but more often then not a free and reduced kid isn't going to be active in extra curricular activities if any transportation, fees or extra costs are involved. Most of those students don't know where their next meal is coming from let alone how they're going to come up with the 5 dollars to have something to eat on the road trip or buy those 75+ dollar cleats. I would also like to say that more often than not the public schools free and reduced percentage should actually be double what it is, because a lot of families are too proud to fill out the paperwork.
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Re: 2018 Playoff Bracket

Postby magic man » Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:50 pm

The Schwab wrote:
magic man wrote:
The Schwab wrote:
magic man wrote:Did anyone even say a thing about Oak Grove being in a championship? Grasping for straws now.

Bottom line is that if you or anyone else wants to complain about private schools having some kind of unfair advantage, while not talking about the advantages that is given to public schools, then you yourself are being biased.


Just one more thing on this.... So poor Oak Grove is not a State Champion in Football every few years so we need to feel bad for them That is what class B deals with all the time. Second... you know many kids get scholarships to go to private school.. when they are 6'5 and can play basketball.

I myself don't have any problem with the private schools of Fargo Shanley or Bismarck St. Mary's when it comes to any sports or even for Dickinson Trinity, Fargo Oak Grove or Minot Bishop Ryan when it comes to football, or any private school that doesn't compete in the smallest class for their sport. What advantages do public class B schools have over private class B schools?


IMO, the biggest thing that comes to mind is the reduction of the class size based free & reduced lunch. I'm of the opinion that a kid is a kid.. Just because he gets a discounted/free lunch, does not mean he can't play football. Why do I say this is an advantage to the public schools vs private? Just look at the numbers. Generally speaking, the percentage of reduction for public vs private isn't even close. This was seemingly set up to go against private schools, because it sure doesn't help give them any help. It becomes even more of an advantage when you don't take a deeper look at the numbers (speaking from a private school perspective).

How many of those male students are foreign exchange/international students? If anything, those kids should be looked at like the free/reduced lunch kids are. More than likely, those kids aren't playing football (which is what I have heard regarding the free/reduced lunch kids).
How many other sports are drawing these kids away from football in the fall? I know of a few class B/public schools that don't have any other fall sports that can pull kids away from playing football. So if a kid wants to play a sport in the fall, they only have one choice, and having that kid on the roster, helps.. Practice, drills, etc..

You don't have to pay for public school. I've heard some comment, "rich families can send their kids to camps, etc to get better." Yes, that is true, but the part that most are failing to realize is that there are some so called, "rich kids" that don't have that drive to want to do that, so even if they have that opportunity to do so, there are some that won't take advantage of it. Also, because they could be a little more financially "well off" than others, they pick up other interests. Theater, arts, etc.
If you really think about it, football is not a "rich kids" sport. Not saying that kids with money can't play football, but I'd guess there is a higher percentage of kids that come from low income, "free/reduced" lunch families, than there are kids that are well off.


I don't feel that school population should be the only factor in determining football classification. You're thinking that a "kid is a kid" doesn't really hold water to me, sorry. I have been around public school education for my entire life and I hate to say it but more often then not a free and reduced kid isn't going to be active in extra curricular activities if any transportation, fees or extra costs are involved. Most of those students don't know where their next meal is coming from let alone how they're going to come up with the 5 dollars to have something to eat on the road trip or buy those 75+ dollar cleats. I would also like to say that more often than not the public schools free and reduced percentage should actually be double what it is, because a lot of families are too proud to fill out the paperwork.


Don't be sorry about your feelings in the "kid isn't a kid" topic.. As a product of a public school system, my experience was that a kid was a kid, so you saying that they aren't, doesn't hold water with me either.

Let me ask you this, since you seem to be able to have a conversation without getting all sensitive.

In this scenario, would you say that a foreign exchange/international student (China, Ethiopia, etc) or a kid from a free and reduced lunch program, are more than likely to participate in football?

If there should be a reduction for free/reduced lunch, then there should be one for foreign exchange/international students.

We agree on the population factor comment.

I've never seen a kid not play because he didn't have $5.00 for a meal for the bus ride home. The $75.00 shoes? I can see that being a deterrent, but if the coach is about anything, he'd reach out in the community to help the kid(s) out. That's just my experience. Most of the kids I played with in HS, had neither the 5.00 or the 75.00 cleats, but our coaches made sure we had something on our feet to play. Hand me downs, or whatever.

My experience from most of the class B towns, is that a good majority of them will feed the opposing teams after the games. Which is a great gesture, that helps both teams.
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Re: 2018 Playoff Bracket

Postby NodakQ2 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:23 pm

I LOVE a good Playoff thread...
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Re: 2018 Playoff Bracket

Postby Flip » Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:29 pm

What about the kid that doesn't go out because he can't afford the cleats, but you never hear the reason they didn't go out?
The foreign exchange student from Asia shouldn't couldn't as a full student and most private schools do offer more sports, but those 2 disadvantages are tiny when compared to the advantages they do have.
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Re: 2018 Playoff Bracket

Postby magic man » Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:21 pm

NodakQ2 wrote:I LOVE a good Playoff thread...

I know.. I feel bad, but I can't stop. Haha
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Re: 2018 Playoff Bracket

Postby packers21 » Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:37 pm

NodakQ2 wrote:I LOVE a good Playoff thread...


I LOVE a reason to come check the site rather than the other 99% of the time when it’s completely dead.
It is a little harder to motivate kids I guess because they’ve been pampered so much. We’re in the trophy generation, give ‘em a trophy for 23rd place, make ‘em feel good. Make mom and dad feel good.” Tom Izzo, Michigan State Basketball
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Re: 2018 Playoff Bracket

Postby Sniper » Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:31 pm

Flip wrote:What about the kid that doesn't go out because he can't afford the cleats, but you never hear the reason they didn't go out?
The foreign exchange student from Asia shouldn't couldn't as a full student and most private schools do offer more sports, but those 2 disadvantages are tiny when compared to the advantages they do have.


I would also like to add that students in private schools are more likely to be able afford memberships to gyms, and training program like Sanford Power. Plus they live closer to these facilities than most small town kids. I believe Shiloh sent their whole football team to Sanford Power this year. I would be willing to bet most of these small town kids on the reduced meal plans can’t afford memberships to these places.
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Re: 2018 Playoff Bracket

Postby magic man » Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:09 pm

Sniper wrote:
Flip wrote:What about the kid that doesn't go out because he can't afford the cleats, but you never hear the reason they didn't go out?
The foreign exchange student from Asia shouldn't couldn't as a full student and most private schools do offer more sports, but those 2 disadvantages are tiny when compared to the advantages they do have.


I would also like to add that students in private schools are more likely to be able afford memberships to gyms, and training program like Sanford Power. Plus they live closer to these facilities than most small town kids. I believe Shiloh sent their whole football team to Sanford Power this year. I would be willing to bet most of these small town kids on the reduced meal plans can’t afford memberships to these places.

I would agree with this premise.

Still does not take away the fact that they can still play. Is there a potential for the private school kid to have some extra training? Sure, but that small town kid is still a member of the team.

Unless you are admitting that this was put in place to "even" things put, which would be that private school bias I've been talking about.
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Re: 2018 Playoff Bracket

Postby Sniper » Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:20 pm

magic man wrote:
Sniper wrote:
Flip wrote:What about the kid that doesn't go out because he can't afford the cleats, but you never hear the reason they didn't go out?
The foreign exchange student from Asia shouldn't couldn't as a full student and most private schools do offer more sports, but those 2 disadvantages are tiny when compared to the advantages they do have.


I would also like to add that students in private schools are more likely to be able afford memberships to gyms, and training program like Sanford Power. Plus they live closer to these facilities than most small town kids. I believe Shiloh sent their whole football team to Sanford Power this year. I would be willing to bet most of these small town kids on the reduced meal plans can’t afford memberships to these places.

I would agree with this premise.

Still does not take away the fact that they can still play. Is there a potential for the private school kid to have some extra training? Sure, but that small town kid is still a member of the team.

Unless you are admitting that this was put in place to "even" things put, which would be that private school bias I've been talking about.


In this scenario, I believe quality of the students/athletes in the school is more important than quantity. This is where we differ.
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Re: 2018 Playoff Bracket

Postby magic man » Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:35 pm

Sniper wrote:
magic man wrote:
Sniper wrote:
Flip wrote:What about the kid that doesn't go out because he can't afford the cleats, but you never hear the reason they didn't go out?
The foreign exchange student from Asia shouldn't couldn't as a full student and most private schools do offer more sports, but those 2 disadvantages are tiny when compared to the advantages they do have.


I would also like to add that students in private schools are more likely to be able afford memberships to gyms, and training program like Sanford Power. Plus they live closer to these facilities than most small town kids. I believe Shiloh sent their whole football team to Sanford Power this year. I would be willing to bet most of these small town kids on the reduced meal plans can’t afford memberships to these places.

I would agree with this premise.

Still does not take away the fact that they can still play. Is there a potential for the private school kid to have some extra training? Sure, but that small town kid is still a member of the team.

Unless you are admitting that this was put in place to "even" things put, which would be that private school bias I've been talking about.


In this scenario, I believe quality of the students/athletes in the school is more important than quantity. This is where we differ.


That we do.
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Re: 2018 Playoff Bracket

Postby Dualsportfan » Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:53 pm

Run4Fun2009 wrote:
JMHS wrote:What happened to Carrington this year? Based upon last year’s success and returning players, I’m surprised they lost out in the first round of the playoffs.


Heard injuries played a key role in this season's struggles...but that is a key factor to the success at the 9-man & Class A level where there is less depth.

Carrington had a few of those "this is a guy they can't afford to lose" athletes. Unfortunately, they lost one against Langdon (for the season) and one against Milnor, both in the 1st quarter of the game. Like most Class A and 9 man teams, this is devastating. Nothing taken away from Langdon and Milnor though as both are very good teams and deserve to be where they are at. Good luck to both of those teams in the playoffs...both very good teams with great coaches and classy kids.
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Re: 2018 Playoff Bracket

Postby The Schwab » Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:24 am

Magic Man I’m not going to quote all of it because that’s a lot to quote! In my experience, a foreign exchange student is more likely to participate in extra curricular activities because its part of their program to be involved in as much as they can. They will probably just play sub-varsity contests in my experience. I agree with you that coaches will do whatever they can to help a kid be able to afford to play sports, but in my experience the transportation issue is a huge deal. We have students in our district (large area, a couple small communities) that if we didn’t provide school bus services they wouldn’t get to school, period. So extra curriculars are non existent for these kids. I don’t feel the foreign exchange students should count against a school unless they are on a multi-year exchange program (because then they will be there for at least part of the next cycle.) I think grouping schools by just enrollment is a sad disservice. I do feel that in private schools a far higher percentage of parents are active in their child’s educational experience and I feel that is a much better indication of participation in extra curriculars, not because they are rich, but because they spend the money to send their children to school and IMO will have the resources to allow their children to fully participate in a sport (ymca fees, travel ball, proper gear etc...) just my two cents.
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Re: 2018 Playoff Bracket

Postby magic man » Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:34 pm

Schwab

I agree that they will more than likely participate in extra curricular activities, but that would not include football, which is what we are talking about here.

And we also agree that foreign exchange/international students should not count in the number nor should the class system be based on numbers alone.
(Other available fall sports/activities, should be looked at as well).

I can agree that in North Dakota/Minnesota, that the statements regarding parent involvement is true, however, in more urban areas, it is more of the opposite. Parents of private school kids use their money as a replacement of their time, while those less fortunate kids have parents that are, in some cases, too involved.

In this area, I'll also say that while private school kids have those involved parents with resources, they also have a wide variety of tastes, that often does not include "physical" sports like football. Golf, Tennis, Basketball, clubs & arts are major activities that those parents encourage.

Just going back to my initial premise is that if you're going to do things that blatantly have a negative impact on only private schools (free/reduced lunch) then it needs to be balanced out (foreign exchange/international students)

There was a proposal from a HS coach a few years back, that was a fair realignment. It was 4 divisions of 11 man with a 9 man level as well. I'm not sure if the NDHSAA ever reviewed it seriously. (Sad if it wasn't)
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Re: 2018 Playoff Bracket

Postby The Schwab » Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:18 pm

North Dakota doesn’t have an urban area population. I agree with your premise that in the major urban areas in our country that lower end economic students will participate in sports as a way to “get out”. I will always stand by my statement that 50 students in a public class B school is way different than 50 students in a private class B school. I also don’t think anyone will be able to make me believe that any school without defined borders has “disadvantages” over schools in the smallest class for any sport. I will agree that in larger metro areas public schools will have certain advantages over private schools, but you will have a tough time convincing me that a school like New England has advantages over Dickinson Trinity or that a school like Washburn would have advantages over Bismarck Shiloh Christian.
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Re: 2018 Playoff Bracket

Postby lovwatchingsports » Sat Oct 27, 2018 2:29 pm

Velva 16 Bowmen 0 end of one
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Re: 2018 Playoff Bracket

Postby lovwatchingsports » Sat Oct 27, 2018 3:06 pm

Velva 16 Bowmen 13 wind big factor in game. Both teams scoring with wind.
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Re: 2018 Playoff Bracket

Postby lovwatchingsports » Sat Oct 27, 2018 3:53 pm

Velva 16 Bowmen 13 end of thrid
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Re: 2018 Playoff Bracket

Postby wan2bqb » Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:01 pm

Bulldawgs lead the Burros 8-7 @ half time.
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Re: 2018 Playoff Bracket

Postby jimor » Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:08 pm

Langdon 28. Kindred 7 final
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Re: 2018 Playoff Bracket

Postby lovwatchingsports » Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:17 pm

Bowmen 26 Velva 16
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Re: 2018 Playoff Bracket

Postby Flip » Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:18 pm

Bowman
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Re: 2018 Playoff Bracket

Postby NorthDakota11 » Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:19 pm

Trinity 34 Beulah 12 F
"Why did you go for two?"

"Because I couldn't go for three..." - Woody Hayes
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Re: 2018 Playoff Bracket

Postby magic man » Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:47 pm

Any of these on the radio?
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Re: 2018 Playoff Bracket

Postby Sportsrube » Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:17 pm

The Schwab wrote:https://bismarcktribune.com/sports/high-school/ogbu-settling-in-at-shiloh/article_dad54392-c1a6-54a4-b6b9-ad1a463ba428.html

I'm sorry that this topic has been hijacked but I'm just going to leave this here. This COULD NEVER HAPPEN at a public class B high school. I'm sure the fact that he was 6'5" and extremely athletic had zero to do with him being helped by "Friends of Shiloh".


Exactly! If that young man was not athletic he would still be in Africa.
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Re: 2018 Playoff Bracket

Postby Sportsrube » Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:18 pm

packers21 wrote:
NodakQ2 wrote:I LOVE a good Playoff thread...


I LOVE a reason to come check the site rather than the other 99% of the time when it’s completely dead.



Agreed!
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