New Regions for 2017

The teams in Class A

Re: New Regions for 2017

Postby madseason » Thu Oct 06, 2016 2:53 pm

wan2bqb wrote:
madseason wrote:Larimore is going 9 man next year. I would put money on Larimore this year winning the east in AA. They are not as good as PRFL was last year. But who in AA east would beat them?? Name a team.


SHANLEY, SHANLEY, SHANLEY. In a three games series. AND Kindred would most likely beat them 2 out of 3 times. Larimore is a very, very good Class A team but there is no way they run away with it against either of the top two teams in the east and HCV would be interesting if they played again. My humble opinion but who knows???
Shanley is better than last year. They might win 2 out of three. No way Kindred beats Larimore. I've seen both teams.
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Re: New Regions for 2017

Postby wan2bqb » Fri Oct 07, 2016 1:19 pm

madseason wrote:
wan2bqb wrote:
madseason wrote:Larimore is going 9 man next year. I would put money on Larimore this year winning the east in AA. They are not as good as PRFL was last year. But who in AA east would beat them?? Name a team.


SHANLEY, SHANLEY, SHANLEY. In a three games series. AND Kindred would most likely beat them 2 out of 3 times. Larimore is a very, very good Class A team but there is no way they run away with it against either of the top two teams in the east and HCV would be interesting if they played again. My humble opinion but who knows???
Shanley is better than last year. They might win 2 out of three. No way Kindred beats Larimore. I've seen both teams.


Who did you see Kindred play? My question is what their competition level was?
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Re: New Regions for 2017

Postby Rivershark » Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:40 pm

Can someone explain to me how the percentage of students that qualify for free and reduced meals has anything to do with determining football classification? If anything maybe they should take into account how many households have Xbox's or how many bag's of Doritos are purchased at the local grocery store.

School enrollments for NDHSAA 2017 and 2018 football plan development purposes will be determinedby:

Step 1: Fall 2015 male enrollments for grades 7 –10 as provided by the Department of Public Instruction.

Step 2: The enrollment reported in Step 1 is multiplied by the percentage of the student body that qualified for free and reduced meals during the 2014‑15 school year according to Department of Public Instruction data. That number will be multiplied by 50%.

Step 3: The number derived in Step 2 is subtracted from the total 7 –10 grade enrollment reported in Step 1. The remainder number will represent the total school enrollment for classification purposes during the 2017 and
2018 football plan.
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Re: New Regions for 2017

Postby ndlionsfan » Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:11 am

Rivershark wrote:Can someone explain to me how the percentage of students that qualify for free and reduced meals has anything to do with determining football classification? If anything maybe they should take into account how many households have Xbox's or how many bag's of Doritos are purchased at the local grocery store.

School enrollments for NDHSAA 2017 and 2018 football plan development purposes will be determinedby:

Step 1: Fall 2015 male enrollments for grades 7 –10 as provided by the Department of Public Instruction.

Step 2: The enrollment reported in Step 1 is multiplied by the percentage of the student body that qualified for free and reduced meals during the 2014‑15 school year according to Department of Public Instruction data. That number will be multiplied by 50%.

Step 3: The number derived in Step 2 is subtracted from the total 7 –10 grade enrollment reported in Step 1. The remainder number will represent the total school enrollment for classification purposes during the 2017 and
2018 football plan.


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Re: New Regions for 2017

Postby NDPREP » Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:28 am

Rivershark wrote:Can someone explain to me how the percentage of students that qualify for free and reduced meals has anything to do with determining football classification? If anything maybe they should take into account how many households have Xbox's or how many bag's of Doritos are purchased at the local grocery store.

School enrollments for NDHSAA 2017 and 2018 football plan development purposes will be determinedby:

Step 1: Fall 2015 male enrollments for grades 7 –10 as provided by the Department of Public Instruction.

Step 2: The enrollment reported in Step 1 is multiplied by the percentage of the student body that qualified for free and reduced meals during the 2014‑15 school year according to Department of Public Instruction data. That number will be multiplied by 50%.

Step 3: The number derived in Step 2 is subtracted from the total 7 –10 grade enrollment reported in Step 1. The remainder number will represent the total school enrollment for classification purposes during the 2017 and
2018 football plan.


Short answer to make sure Turtle Mountain stays out of AAA those schools don't want to play them. In other A sports they will try to force hands and not go there and make them travel rather than giving them a home game.
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Re: New Regions for 2017

Postby Mandan » Thu Oct 20, 2016 3:20 pm

NDPREP wrote:
Rivershark wrote:Can someone explain to me how the percentage of students that qualify for free and reduced meals has anything to do with determining football classification? If anything maybe they should take into account how many households have Xbox's or how many bag's of Doritos are purchased at the local grocery store.

School enrollments for NDHSAA 2017 and 2018 football plan development purposes will be determinedby:

Step 1: Fall 2015 male enrollments for grades 7 –10 as provided by the Department of Public Instruction.

Step 2: The enrollment reported in Step 1 is multiplied by the percentage of the student body that qualified for free and reduced meals during the 2014‑15 school year according to Department of Public Instruction data. That number will be multiplied by 50%.

Step 3: The number derived in Step 2 is subtracted from the total 7 –10 grade enrollment reported in Step 1. The remainder number will represent the total school enrollment for classification purposes during the 2017 and
2018 football plan.


Short answer to make sure Turtle Mountain stays out of AAA those schools don't want to play them. In other A sports they will try to force hands and not go there and make them travel rather than giving them a home game.


Turtle Mountain didn't want to be in AAA either, they played an independent season the last time they were supposed to be in the AAA East Region and I think were prepared to do that as a protest if they would have been kept in AAA.

Under the current alignment that wouldn't be an issue, since they are now solidly in AA numbers. It does help New Town, which has AA numbers but is in A when the reduction is calculated.

The only logic that might follow from this is that poor kids are less likely to play sports, whether their parents can't afford it or they have to work to help out the parents and so won't play sports. I'm not sure if that is even true, but that is the only way I can think of for this to have any real reason to it other than something concocted to let certain schools stay down a level.
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Re: New Regions for 2017

Postby Rivershark » Thu Oct 27, 2016 12:12 pm

I'm just wondering how much thought goes into these changes and who benefits the most and who looses? In the "A" Division, Velva who is in Region #3 averages 48 miles per game. In Region #2 Park River averages 126 per game (the longest is 178 miles). In the NE part of the state, almost all the teams are now 9 man. I don't understand why towns like Thompson and Mayport are 9 man.
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Re: New Regions for 2017

Postby The Schwab » Thu Oct 27, 2016 12:31 pm

It is all based on male enrollment (with the multiplier). I am 100 percent against multiplier, if you have 100 boys in your high school you shouldn't only be counted at having 50 boys. I want to say kudos to Bishop Ryan for opting up, I know they have a small private high school, but they have had success in football so they opt up. I have a problem with a school who is big enough to be class A (adjusted enrollment higher than 3, and within 10 of multiple other schools) and having a 40-3 record the past 4 years not opting up to division A.
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Re: New Regions for 2017

Postby d_fense » Thu Oct 27, 2016 5:51 pm

What team are you talking about Schwalb? I'm guessing either Shiloh or Thompson. I would think both of those schools would want to play up a division.

In visiting with experienced people I like and trust, I am 100% in favor of the free and reduced multiplyer.
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Re: New Regions for 2017

Postby d_fense » Thu Oct 27, 2016 6:05 pm

Rivershark wrote:I'm just wondering how much thought goes into these changes and who benefits the most and who looses? In the "A" Division, Velva who is in Region #3 averages 48 miles per game. In Region #2 Park River averages 126 per game (the longest is 178 miles). In the NE part of the state, almost all the teams are now 9 man. I don't understand why towns like Thompson and Mayport are 9 man.


If PRFL didn't have such a large geographic footprint, they could possibly play closer teams and may even be able to drop down to nine man... I don't know how their numbers if they were a stand alone school.

I don't really understand why people complain about traveling to games. Personally I don't think driving a couple hours to 4 regular season games a year is a big deal. It kind of helps make it a little more of an event.
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Re: New Regions for 2017

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Thu Oct 27, 2016 6:13 pm

d_fense wrote:What team are you talking about Schwalb? I'm guessing either Shiloh or Thompson. I would think both of those schools would want to play up a division.

In visiting with experienced people I like and trust, I am 100% in favor of the free and reduced multiplyer.


Four Schools who are close with potential records that Schwab listed are below:
Cavalier's enrollment is 71 (multiplier drops them to 62.08)
Shiloh's enrollment is 70 (multiplier only drops them to 68.39)
Larimore's enrollment is 70 (multiplier drops them considerably to 61.29 - including Emerado)
Thompson's enrollment is 69 (multiplier only drops them to 65.71)

Minimum non-'OPT UP' enrollment in latest plan for Class A is 76 (Bowman Cty & Northern Cass - both multipliers drop them to around the 70 number).
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Re: New Regions for 2017

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Thu Oct 27, 2016 6:20 pm

d_fense wrote:
Rivershark wrote:I'm just wondering how much thought goes into these changes and who benefits the most and who looses? In the "A" Division, Velva who is in Region #3 averages 48 miles per game. In Region #2 Park River averages 126 per game (the longest is 178 miles). In the NE part of the state, almost all the teams are now 9 man. I don't understand why towns like Thompson and Mayport are 9 man.


If PRFL didn't have such a large geographic footprint, they could possibly play closer teams and may even be able to drop down to nine man... I don't know how their numbers if they were a stand alone school.

I don't really understand why people complain about traveling to games. Personally I don't think driving a couple hours to 4 regular season games a year is a big deal. It kind of helps make it a little more of an event.


Adjusted Male Enrollments from Multiplier for Park River and additional towns for 2017-18
Park River-FL - 60.72
Fordville-Lankin - 6.02
Valley-Edinburg - 30.97

So...Park River could be a 9-man school if they didn't have V-E for the next two years...but my guess would have been that Park River was going to Opt Up anyways to stay 11-man...probably why they were willing to add V-E to the coop.

Only Class A school that benefited from the Multiplier to stay in Class A would have been New Town (only School listed by original enrollment that is higher than Central Cass' numbers); while Four Winds & Dunseith are the biggest benefactors in 9-man to the multiplier...keeping them 9-man instead of Class A.
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Re: New Regions for 2017

Postby Rivershark » Thu Oct 27, 2016 11:23 pm

I'm just thinking that it would be fun see PRFL compete against Thompson or Cavalier. Seriously, is two more players going to make a difference?
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Re: New Regions for 2017

Postby d_fense » Fri Oct 28, 2016 1:23 am

Rivershark wrote:I'm just thinking that it would be fun see PRFL compete against Thompson or Cavalier. Seriously, is two more players going to make a difference?

Have you ever watched a nine man game? Two players makes a huge difference. 11 man and 9 man football may be in the same family, but they are distant cousins.
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Re: New Regions for 2017

Postby defensewinsgames » Fri Oct 28, 2016 6:24 am

Rivershark wrote:I'm just thinking that it would be fun see PRFL compete against Thompson or Cavalier. Seriously, is two more players going to make a difference?


Yes 2 players makes a tremendous difference. It happen all the time, competitive 11 man teams move down to 9 man and struggle a couple of years until they figure it out. Watch when an 11man jv plays a 9man jv. The 9 man offense always gives them fits.
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Re: New Regions for 2017

Postby Rivershark » Fri Oct 28, 2016 8:26 am

defensewinsgames wrote:
Rivershark wrote:I'm just thinking that it would be fun see PRFL compete against Thompson or Cavalier. Seriously, is two more players going to make a difference?


Yes 2 players makes a tremendous difference. It happen all the time, competitive 11 man teams move down to 9 man and struggle a couple of years until they figure it out. Watch when an 11man jv plays a 9man jv. The 9 man offense always gives them fits.
-

What I'm wondering is whether it would be a competitive game or no between lets say Thompson and PRFL (or any other teams)? I don't know if I really care if it's 9 or 11 man. Each team has competitive players that would love to go head to head against each other. Games would be closer for fans and you wouldn't have to travel 5 hours for a game.
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Re: New Regions for 2017

Postby Flip » Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:35 am

d_fense wrote:What team are you talking about Schwalb? I'm guessing either Shiloh or Thompson. I would think both of those schools would want to play up a division.

It has to be Cavalier.
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Re: New Regions for 2017

Postby ndlionsfan » Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:55 am

Flip wrote:
d_fense wrote:What team are you talking about Schwalb? I'm guessing either Shiloh or Thompson. I would think both of those schools would want to play up a division.

It has to be Cavalier.


Pretty sure its Shiloh
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Re: New Regions for 2017

Postby The Schwab » Fri Oct 28, 2016 11:16 am

Ok, here are my reasons behind the free and reduced multiplier: 1. What schools are affected by the multiplier the most? Generally it will be reservation schools, which the only reservation school I remember having any sort of success in the past few years was Parshall (they made it to the dome one year). Are these schools down in athletics all across the board? Absolutely not, if you don't believe me, see Four Winds/Minnewauken last year in basketball.

In my opinion, if you want to give schools with students from "less than ideal" home situations a break when it comes to football, that's your decision. However, we should have the schools with kids who come from "better than average" home situations a multiplier that increases their enrollment.

I've never changed my stance that Private Schools should not be allowed in the smallest class of any sport. The school I was referencing was Shiloh. In my experiences with Shiloh they are very good people, who educate/coach very good kids. This is not a knock on anything their school believes or practices. I just feel it is crazy to have a school with the kind of athletic tradition and facilities that they have play in the lowest class of a 4 class football system.
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Re: New Regions for 2017

Postby EHS1998 » Fri Oct 28, 2016 1:10 pm

The Schwab wrote:I've never changed my stance that Private Schools should not be allowed in the smallest class of any sport. The school I was referencing was Shiloh. In my experiences with Shiloh they are very good people, who educate/coach very good kids. This is not a knock on anything their school believes or practices. I just feel it is crazy to have a school with the kind of athletic tradition and facilities that they have play in the lowest class of a 4 class football system.


Couldn't have said this better. I agree 100%.
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Re: New Regions for 2017

Postby Flip » Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:45 pm

The Schwab wrote:In my opinion, if you want to give schools with students from "less than ideal" home situations a break when it comes to football, that's your decision. However, we should have the schools with kids who come from "better than average" home situations a multiplier that increases their enrollment.

I've always thought this too, but until today I never asked myself, "how would you do it?"
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Re: New Regions for 2017

Postby The Schwab » Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:54 pm

Between 15-30 percent Free and Reduced Meals, no multiplier
Less than 15 percent, multiplied by 5/3
Greater than 30 percent, multiplied by 3/5.
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Re: New Regions for 2017

Postby The Schwab » Fri Oct 28, 2016 3:06 pm

Or if you want more categories:

0-10 multiply by 1.5
11-20 multiply by 1.25
21-30 multiply by 1
31-40 multiply by .75
41+ multiply by .5
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Re: New Regions for 2017

Postby d_fense » Fri Oct 28, 2016 3:55 pm

The Schwab wrote:Or if you want more categories:

0-10 multiply by 1.5
11-20 multiply by 1.25
21-30 multiply by 1
31-40 multiply by .75
41+ multiply by .5

So, what you are really saying is, if 100% of families is a district are average, (not free or reduced but not above average income) we should multiply their number by 1.5????? I thought your issue was with schools that had more high income families because of their perceived advantages.
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Re: New Regions for 2017

Postby The Schwab » Fri Oct 28, 2016 4:03 pm

A public school will very rarely, if ever, fall under the 10 percent free and reduced meals. This is a two sided issue for me. First it will probably make more families fill out the free and reduced paperwork (a lot who would qualify, don't fill it out) that would make things easier on some families and secondly it would be a fair system as opposed to the current system used.
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