QRF Rankings

[ChickenNuggets]

Here are the QRF Rankings- They will obviously change quite a bit, but it's fun to look at what it would look like if playoffs started today-

Rank Team / Record QRF
1 Fargo North (4-0) 81.6
2 Jamestown (4-0) 79.9
3 Valley City (4-0) 73.2
4 Grand Forks Red River (4-1) 66.4
5 Fargo South (3-1) 61.5
6 Wahpeton (2-2) 40.3
7 Dickinson (2-2) 33.5
8 Grand Forks Central (1-4) 22.1
9 Devils Lake (1-3) 21.8
10 Turtle Mountain (1-4) 16.2
11 Watford City (0-5) 7.3
12 West Fargo Horace (0-4) 5.6

#8 GF Central @ #1 Fargo North
#5 Fargo South @ #4 GF Red River
#6 Wahpeton @ #3 Valley City
#7 Dickinson # #2 Jamestown

[Thundersnow]

Congratulations to the Fargo and Grand Forks schools for creating a class that guarantees them a trip to the playoffs virtually every year. Jamestown and Dickinson will also contend every year. The other 6 schools will go through cycles where they might compete every 4th or 5th year. I'll be cheering for Valley City this year.

[WalkingStick]

Congratulations to the Fargo and Grand Forks schools for creating a class that guarantees them a trip to the playoffs virtually every year. Jamestown and Dickinson will also contend every year. The other 6 schools will go through cycles where they might compete every 4th or 5th year. I'll be cheering for Valley City this year.

The NDHSAA made this change to keep 4 classes and to have A Schools vs A Schools & B Schools vs B Schools. Yep, it definitely benefits certain teams...but so did the other setup. Nothing will be a perfect, utopian world when it comes to classes.

[Thundersnow]

I know there will always be haves and have-nots whether we have 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 or 25 classes. It's just bizarre to me that Kindred, Central Cass, Grafton and Beulah "shouldn't" be in the same class as Turtle Mountain, Valley City and Wahpeton. Interest in high school sports seems to be dwindling across the state. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I yearn for the days of 2018 when we had that goofy statewide 10-team Class AA. Things weren't perfect back then, but it was better than nowadays.

[NDPREP]

Congratulations to the Fargo and Grand Forks schools for creating a class that guarantees them a trip to the playoffs virtually every year. Jamestown and Dickinson will also contend every year. The other 6 schools will go through cycles where they might compete every 4th or 5th year. I'll be cheering for Valley City this year.

The NDHSAA made this change to keep 4 classes and to have A Schools vs A Schools & B Schools vs B Schools. Yep, it definitely benefits certain teams...but so did the other setup. Nothing will be a perfect, utopian world when it comes to classes.

NDHSAA made it sure but those fargo and grand forks schools were the champions of it, they wanted to move down...

[5-time state chump]

Congratulations to the Fargo and Grand Forks schools for creating a class that guarantees them a trip to the playoffs virtually every year. Jamestown and Dickinson will also contend every year. The other 6 schools will go through cycles where they might compete every 4th or 5th year. I'll be cheering for Valley City this year.

The NDHSAA made this change to keep 4 classes and to have A Schools vs A Schools & B Schools vs B Schools. Yep, it definitely benefits certain teams...but so did the other setup. Nothing will be a perfect, utopian world when it comes to classes.

Correct, in that nothing will be perfect. Just not enough schools in ND.

I don't understand what you mean by NDHSAA made a change to have "A Schools vs A Schools and B Schools vs B Schools".

They put Central, RR, FS and FN (Enrollment of 1000 or so) in with VC (enrollment of 340) -- All are NOW in Class A, so OF COURSE Class A Schools will play Class A Schools.

To me it looks like they "made a change" for competition reasons. Which, is very 2020's like. "The big schools haven't had a chance to win in recent memory, so let's move them down.

What if they don't succeed here? Will NDHSAA move Central, RR, North and South to Class B? 9-Man?

[WalkingStick]

AA & A are just A schools…B & 9-man are just B schools.

That was their main reason of splitting first; then they allowed the opportunity for A teams with middle-of-the-road enrollment numbers to chose where they wanted to play.

A schools can’t be in B division…that was stated when this plan came out…just no one seems to remember any of the reasons given then.

I just hate that Williston can’t be in 11A for lack of success because their size is too large but BSM had to move up for success points reason.

[5-time state chump]

Congratulations to the Fargo and Grand Forks schools for creating a class that guarantees them a trip to the playoffs virtually every year. Jamestown and Dickinson will also contend every year. The other 6 schools will go through cycles where they might compete every 4th or 5th year. I'll be cheering for Valley City this year.

I agree with you here. But I don't know the fix. I'll focus on AA and A, being they are the one's folks usually argue about most (because there aren't enough schools of similar size to divide them up in "fair" divisions).

This idea is not perfect, but its better than what we have now:

Class AA - 15 Schools.
Fargo North, Fargo South, Fargo Davies, West Fargo, West Fargo Sheyenne, West Fargo Horace, Bismarck High, Bismarck Legacy, Bismarck Century, Grand Forks Central, Grand Forks Red River, Minot, Williston, Dickinson, Jamestown.

Class A - 13 Schools
Kindred, Casselton, Beulah, Grafton, Watford City, Valley City, Wahpeton, Devils Lake, St. Marys, Shanley, Turtle Mountain, Dickinson Trinity, Hazen.

Rest are B and 9-man.

[Thundersnow]

I will try to lay out my case as clearly and completely as possible of what is wrong with our current plan. Also, I want to offer an alternative idea. NDPrep has already scolded me for complaining on another thread, so I'll try to add something productive.

Problem 1: The hard lines. Class "A" teams have to be in 11AA or 11A. The largest enrollment teams have to be in 11AA. In this plan, Williston can't move down. Ever. Since 2009, Williston is 21-98, a winning percentage of .176. Let's take a closer look at those 21 wins. 2 of those 21 wins came against Sidney, MT. 16 came against teams currently in "11A". They also beat Mandan twice and defeated Legacy in their first varsity season. Against teams currently in "11AA" they are 3-66, for a winning percentage of .043. This plan says "Williston, you belong in a division against teams that have beaten you 96% of the time over the last 10+ years." I don't care who you blame, Williston has proved that they don't competitively belong in this division. As soon as Minot North gets built, Williston will have the largest enrollment in the state.

Other teams that can't move down, ever? Watford City (just improved to 2-40 in their last 42 games), Turtle Mountain (0 winning seasons since 1988), Wahpeton, Valley City and Devils Lake.

Problem 2: the soft lines.
Who can choose where they play? Fargo Shanley, Fargo North, Fargo South, Grand Forks Central, Grand Forks Red River, Dickinson, Mandan, Bismarck St. Mary's and Bismarck Legacy. I'm aware "success factor" can take away the choice at times, but if ANY of these teams had the same last 13 years as Williston, would they choose to play in 11AA?
In Class "B" teams can bounce around between 9-man football and 11-man football. I don't think this is as bad of a problem as the Class A problems, but if you're on the bubble, how do you decide what to teach your younger players? If I'm not mistaken, teams may only have a 1-year warning period before they move up or down to a different style and level of football.

Problem 3: The "success factor". It incentivizes losing and punishes winning, but only for certain teams. 9B and 11A teams are the only teams subject to the success factor. Any 11B team can have unlimited success. Hillsboro, Kindred, Central Cass, Beulah, or Langdon (not to mention the private schools) could theoretically win 5 state championships in a row and never be forced up. I fail to see why St. Mary's and Cavalier's success is an "unfair" amount of success while Hillsboro's and Langdon's recent success is deemed "fair". What's the difference?

Problem 4: Geography and competitiveness. It's difficult to have both in our state, but somehow this plan has achieved a lack of competitiveness while still having teams travel 5+ hours for regular season games.

Problem 5: Playoff teams and seeding. At the beginning of the year, the NDHSAA still had standings divided by East and West in 11AA and 11A. After we had our conversation on this website about who gets in and how seeding is determined, they now display statewide standings. Either the NDHSAA didn't know how playoff teams were determined, or those who did know hadn't talked to whoever runs their website. Congratulations to those who love QRF, this is your state now. Everyone loved the BCS, so I'm sure everyone will agree with the seeds that the QRF comes up with as they use their secret formula.

I could go on and on with the problems of this new plan, but instead I want to try to offer a solution.

Idea 1: Put everybody in a class by enrollment to start with. Allow teams to make their own schedules. If a team wants to travel across the state, let them travel. If a team doesn't want to drive west of Casselton, don't make them. Use QRF for playoff qualifying and seeding. Have a QRF formula that is transparent so fans can understand what winning or losing the next game will do for their favorite team's playoff chances and seeding. Apply your "success factor" equally to everyone. Anyone can move up, anyone can move down based on their success or lack thereof, regardless of enrollment.

Idea 2: We go back to the way things were from 1997-2016. It wasn't perfect, but it was easy to understand.

[Flip]

Idea 1: Put everybody in a class by enrollment to start with. Allow teams to make their own schedules. If a team wants to travel across the state, let them travel. If a team doesn't want to drive west of Casselton, don't make them. Use QRF for playoff qualifying and seeding. Have a QRF formula that is transparent so fans can understand what winning or losing the next game will do for their favorite team's playoff chances and seeding. Apply your "success factor" equally to everyone. Anyone can move up, anyone can move down based on their success or lack thereof, regardless of enrollment.

This is pretty much how MN does all its sports.

[Thundersnow]

And is Minnesota relatively pleased with their classification system?

[WalkingStick]

And is Minnesota relatively pleased with their classification system?

A lot of people don't like the QRF cause it's so secretive...

Hard to compare MN to ND as MN has 6 11-man divisions and 1 9-man (vastly larger divisions too) whereas ND has 3 11-man divisions and 1 9-man.

[5-time state chump]

And is Minnesota relatively pleased with their classification system?

A lot of people don't like the QRF cause it's so secretive...

Hard to compare MN to ND as MN has 6 11-man divisions and 1 9-man (vastly larger divisions too) whereas ND has 3 11-man divisions and 1 9-man.

IMO, QRF in ND Class A doesn't mean much with 11 teams and 8 making the playoffs. They could take the 8 best win percentages....and be fine. It's not going to ruin anyone's season. The ones affected the most, are the ones on the edge. And they don't really belong in the playoffs anyways.

8/11 = 73% of the teams make the playoffs. That's ridiculous.

The only reason they go with 8 instead of 6 is because with 6....you'd have teams that only have to 1 game to get to the Dakota Bowl. Now at least they humor everyone by letting the #8 play the #1 and the #7 play the #2 in the first round.

[Thundersnow]

Last year, they did not get the correct 8 teams in the 11AA playoffs. Davies was 6-3 and left out while Minot was 2-7 and got in. I'm fine with having 8 teams in, and obviously QRF has a better chance of getting the right 8 teams in than the goofy system used last year.

[5-time state chump]

Last year, they did not get the correct 8 teams in the 11AA playoffs. Davies was 6-3 and left out while Minot was 2-7 and got in. I'm fine with having 8 teams in, and obviously QRF has a better chance of getting the right 8 teams in than the goofy system used last year.

Yeah. That's B.S when something like that happens. I'm guessing that was something to do with East/West?

[WalkingStick]

Last year, they did not get the correct 8 teams in the 11AA playoffs. Davies was 6-3 and left out while Minot was 2-7 and got in. I'm fine with having 8 teams in, and obviously QRF has a better chance of getting the right 8 teams in than the goofy system used last year.

Yeah. That's B.S when something like that happens. I'm guessing that was something to do with East/West?

That was making the conference play matter

[Sorenson23]

QRF Rankings as of 10/14
1. Valley City (7-1) 84.6
2. Grand Forks Red River (6-2) 78.5
3. Fargo South (5-3) 75.6
4. Jamestown (6-2) 75
5. Fargo North (5-3) 68.5
6. Wahpeton (4-4) 60.1
7. Dickinson (4-4) 48.5
8. Grand Forks Central (3-5) 47.2
9. Devils Lake (3-5) 36.9
10. Watford City (1-7) 20.5
11. Turtle Mountain (1-7) 17.9
12. West Fargo Horace (0-8) 16.4

[justplayalready]

Could an A team play only AA teams, not win any games and have a high enough QRF to make playoffs?

[WalkingStick]

Could an A team play only AA teams, not win any games and have a high enough QRF to make playoffs?

Use Bismarck as an example with their QRF. It was 23.5 playing all AA schools and going 0-9...wouldn't have made the playoffs in A with that QRF.

[justplayalready]

Could an A team play only AA teams, not win any games and have a high enough QRF to make playoffs?

Use Bismarck as an example with their QRF. It was 23.5 playing all AA schools and going 0-9...wouldn't have made the playoffs in A with that QRF.

IS the QRF all inclusive to all 11 man teams AA, A, B??? If so wouldn't it make sense to have a time and number limit to the games played out of divison? Say the 1st 3 weeks of a season?...Not that it would matter much other than optics???

[Sorenson23]

Final QRF Rankings
1 Fargo South (6-3) 87.2
2 Grand Forks Red River (7-2) 86.4
3 Jamestown (7-2) 85.6
4 Valley City (7-2) 82.5
5 Fargo North (5-4) 67.6
6 Wahpeton (5-4) 65.2
7 Grand Forks Central (4-5) 56.3
8 Dickinson (4-5) 48.0
9 Devils Lake (3-6) 36.6
10 Watford City (2-7) 25.9
11 Turtle Mountain (1-8) 19.2
12 West Fargo Horace (0-9) 16.9