2013 Playoff Semifinals

The teams in Class AA.

Re: 2013 Playoff Semifinals

Postby bronco99 » Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:51 pm

Really don't have a beef with shanley, a beef with system, yes. But just taking a guess and from things I heard from people that say the system needs some tuning.
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Re: 2013 Playoff Semifinals

Postby d_fense » Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:31 pm

What is wrong with "The System"?
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Re: 2013 Playoff Semifinals

Postby magic man » Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:01 pm

bronco99 wrote:So all them people on shanleys side with head sets on and clipboards r just what.....? Last I seen them play I ran out of fingers counting them, and I have more than 7 fingers so give me a break.


Just because a person has a clipboard on the sideline, doesn't make them a coach. I would guess that some are taking stats.. there are trainers, and I think that their 5/6th and 7/8th grade coaches are allowed to come on the sideline during varsity games. (I know that the big dude with the beard coaches 7/8th grade, because my son played against them).

As for the system, please explain what the problem is with the system..
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Re: 2013 Playoff Semifinals

Postby Linebacker48 » Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:01 am

Speaking from experience, I am from Wahpeton and this was a topic of conversation about our enrollment for being in Class B baseball for legion. We are bigger than most Class B schools, but we are not even close to Class A enrollments. The difference of students we would be up against in Class AAA is way larger than the deficits of students we have compared to Class AA schools. On the topic of Shanley's coaches, remember they are private therefore they have different funding than a public school. But also note the tradition they have there. Shanley is very proud of their program, and they have a reason to be. I'm sure many of the people on the sidelines are showing their support for their team.
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Re: 2013 Playoff Semifinals

Postby DobbinsND » Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:06 pm

Sorry to come to the conversation late. A few comments - I'm not sure where the enrollment numbers came from (or if they are just old), but Shanley currently has around 330 students. Still, this makes them only about half to a quarter of the enrollment of AAA schools. I am a Shanley FB parent. You are right - there are only 7 coaches, but some of them double up to coach JV and HS as well. The others on the field are trainers, stats takers, the athletic director and sometimes parents helping out. I might add another challenge for parochial schools in the larger cities is losing good players to AAA schools in town. The Davies Eagle FB stars, Aiden and Tristan Hartness, were lured away from Shanley because of Hockey (which Shanley doesn't have). Tradition and school pride play a big role also. Around 75% of Shanley students participate in at least 2 extracurricular activities. Still, with a smaller school, the talent pool can change from year to year. We are very fortunate to have a very athletic junior class at this time.
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Re: 2013 Playoff Semifinals

Postby Indy5 » Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:20 pm

DobbinsND wrote:Sorry to come to the conversation late. A few comments - I'm not sure where the enrollment numbers came from (or if they are just old), but Shanley currently has around 330 students. Still, this makes them only about half to a quarter of the enrollment of AAA schools. I am a Shanley FB parent. You are right - there are only 7 coaches, but some of them double up to coach JV and HS as well. The others on the field are trainers, stats takers, the athletic director and sometimes parents helping out. I might add another challenge for parochial schools in the larger cities is losing good players to AAA schools in town. The Davies Eagle FB stars, Aiden and Tristan Hartness, were lured away from Shanley because of Hockey (which Shanley doesn't have). Tradition and school pride play a big role also. Around 75% of Shanley students participate in at least 2 extracurricular activities. Still, with a smaller school, the talent pool can change from year to year. We are very fortunate to have a very athletic junior class at this time.

The enrollment numbers are only boys, so they are essentially half of the total.
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Re: 2013 Playoff Semifinals

Postby baseball18 » Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:22 am

its North Dakota. Theyre simply arent enough teams to please everybody. Theres always going to be those "tweener" teams. I wouldnt be surprised if one day the Bismarck, Fargo, WF, GF, and Minot schools have their own class with some of those cities growing and you get Dickinson, Jamestown, Wahpeton, Devils Lake, and the parochial schools maybe in their own class. Football is a little different because of numbers. Obviously you have more people playing football than basketball and other sports. I think Shanley, SMCHS, and Wahpeton are in the correct class for now
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Re: 2013 Playoff Semifinals

Postby observer » Sat Nov 09, 2013 2:58 am

Bluecoach wrote:All 4 of the teams in the semi's should be playing in AAA. It is ridiculous that they play against Class B towns.

I haven't heard anything this ridiculous in a long time. What reasonable logic can support this statement? :roll: Sounds like a disgruntled coach talking here. The system is not perfect but it is what it is, based upon enrollment.
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Re: 2013 Playoff Semifinals

Postby Flip » Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:51 am

bronco99 wrote:Don't really know that the kids r better its that them four schools can afford a lot more coaches and that does make a difference. If 2a is for class b schools which is in my book rural north Dakota then by no means should they be playin on artificial turf. Class b can't afford that

I'm pretty sure coaches at the private schools get paid less than the public school coaches.

Just because you can afford to pay someone more money doesn't mean you do.
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Re: 2013 Playoff Semifinals

Postby d_fense » Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:57 am

Everyone gets paid less at a private school, everyone. Administration, teachers, coaches, custodians, secretaries, and cooks.

In thinking about it, there may be one exception. I know on one private school that paid bus drivers $50 for a round trip. I know some schools do not pay that much.

Flip, to me you made it sound like private schools all have plenty of money. If that is what you are saying, that is really not the case. Some of the parents may have cash, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the schools have access to it. Winning does help people open up their wallets though. Look at small Class B schools. They all do it up pretty big when they make it to state whether it is in basketball,football, volleyball, or whatever it may be. It is not the schools that are paying for all the extras. Small school booster clubs which mainly consist of parents, past and present are taking care of things. I know of one class b administrator who got to school the morning after his schools boys team earned a trip to state. There on his desk was over ten thousand in cash. You would have never said the school had a lot of money, but they sure threw a great party at state.
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Re: 2013 Playoff Semifinals

Postby Flip » Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:09 pm

d_fense wrote:Everyone gets paid less at a private school, everyone. Administration, teachers, coaches, custodians, secretaries, and cooks.

I don't know about now, but I know years ago Shiloh coaches were not paid.

Flip, to me you made it sound like private schools all have plenty of money.

I know that is not the case. This is a post I made about a week ago.

Flip wrote:I know some private schools struggle make ends meet, but I don't think Shiloh is one of those schools. Maybe they can find some donations so they can have one at the semifinal game.
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Re: 2013 Playoff Semifinals

Postby Bluecoach » Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:26 pm

Looks like I started a bit of debate. My point is not so much enrollment issues. I understand some of that while at the same time enrollment is not driven by population of the town but somewhat by self controlled limits. My main point is this. Athletes from larger ND cities, such as Bismarck, Minot, Fargo, (not so much Wahpeton) have access to so many more opportunities than the average class B school. Many of these kids are participating in organized tackle fb, summer vb/bb leagues and the such at a very young age. Most small town athletes don't have access to that in their development stages. An argument was made that these school lose there best athletes to the larger AAA schools in town. That may be true but on the flip side, how many athletes come to the private school because they might be fringe players at the larger schools. I don't know the answer to this and will admit my ignorance and am only asking as the other side was mentioned..

Why is it accepted that these schools participate in class A in all other sports but with FB they do not. Do you remember what an outcry there was when Valley City was dropped to Class B for all sports?

Some have argued it is the result of needing to fill out the leagues. This has merit also. But does 14 teams in AAA make any sense? Why not 16?

There is no solution to the problem with bubble teams. It happens at all levels.
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Re: 2013 Playoff Semifinals

Postby Indy5 » Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:51 pm

Bluecoach wrote:Looks like I started a bit of debate. My point is not so much enrollment issues. I understand some of that while at the same time enrollment is not driven by population of the town but somewhat by self controlled limits. My main point is this. Athletes from larger ND cities, such as Bismarck, Minot, Fargo, (not so much Wahpeton) have access to so many more opportunities than the average class B school. Many of these kids are participating in organized tackle fb, summer vb/bb leagues and the such at a very young age. Most small town athletes don't have access to that in their development stages. An argument was made that these school lose there best athletes to the larger AAA schools in town. That may be true but on the flip side, how many athletes come to the private school because they might be fringe players at the larger schools. I don't know the answer to this and will admit my ignorance and am only asking as the other side was mentioned..

Why is it accepted that these schools participate in class A in all other sports but with FB they do not. Do you remember what an outcry there was when Valley City was dropped to Class B for all sports?

Some have argued it is the result of needing to fill out the leagues. This has merit also. But does 14 teams in AAA make any sense? Why not 16?

There is no solution to the problem with bubble teams. It happens at all levels.

Kids very very rarely ever transfer from the public school to the private school due to lack of playing time. One big reason is the transfer rule. They'd need to sit out a year right away, so they'd need to see the writing on the wall probably as freshmen for it to be worth it and how many kids are gonna do that?

Also these schools can play A in other sports because it's a different system. There is a reason football has 4 classes and the other sports have 2. It's a completely different game numbers wise. AA football is not class B. A and 9 man football are class B. AA is small A and big B. There are 5 class A schools in the league. One of the schools you mentioned (Bishop Ryan) has the lowest enrollment by 23 kids. That is including the "coop" with Sawyer. That adds about 25 to 30 boys to the number even though they didn't have a single player from Sawyer in the program. I'm pretty sure their numbers could have them in 9 man but yet you want to put them up against Minot High and their 2,000 kids. Also, why wasn't Trinity an issue? Just cause they were bad this year? Their a private in a major city. What about Belcourt? They play class A in other sports. Valley City?

What about Shiloh? They are a 9 man team in the big city of Bismarck. Surely, that's unfair. Better schedule BHS. Or how about Oak Grove? They're in Fargo (FARGO wow!). They used to be AA now they're 9 man. They must win state right? You'll have to check with Run, but I doubt they've had a winning record since winning state. What about Our Redeemers? Their a private school in Minot, plus they coop with Berthold. With those kind of numbers and advantages they should win state at AAA.
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Re: 2013 Playoff Semifinals

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:50 am

Indy5 wrote:
Bluecoach wrote:Looks like I started a bit of debate. My point is not so much enrollment issues. I understand some of that while at the same time enrollment is not driven by population of the town but somewhat by self controlled limits. My main point is this. Athletes from larger ND cities, such as Bismarck, Minot, Fargo, (not so much Wahpeton) have access to so many more opportunities than the average class B school. Many of these kids are participating in organized tackle fb, summer vb/bb leagues and the such at a very young age. Most small town athletes don't have access to that in their development stages. An argument was made that these school lose there best athletes to the larger AAA schools in town. That may be true but on the flip side, how many athletes come to the private school because they might be fringe players at the larger schools. I don't know the answer to this and will admit my ignorance and am only asking as the other side was mentioned..

Why is it accepted that these schools participate in class A in all other sports but with FB they do not. Do you remember what an outcry there was when Valley City was dropped to Class B for all sports?

Some have argued it is the result of needing to fill out the leagues. This has merit also. But does 14 teams in AAA make any sense? Why not 16?

There is no solution to the problem with bubble teams. It happens at all levels.

Kids very very rarely ever transfer from the public school to the private school due to lack of playing time. One big reason is the transfer rule. They'd need to sit out a year right away, so they'd need to see the writing on the wall probably as freshmen for it to be worth it and how many kids are gonna do that?

Also these schools can play A in other sports because it's a different system. There is a reason football has 4 classes and the other sports have 2. It's a completely different game numbers wise. AA football is not class B. A and 9 man football are class B. AA is small A and big B. There are 5 class A schools in the league. One of the schools you mentioned (Bishop Ryan) has the lowest enrollment by 23 kids. That is including the "coop" with Sawyer. That adds about 25 to 30 boys to the number even though they didn't have a single player from Sawyer in the program. I'm pretty sure their numbers could have them in 9 man but yet you want to put them up against Minot High and their 2,000 kids. Also, why wasn't Trinity an issue? Just cause they were bad this year? Their a private in a major city. What about Belcourt? They play class A in other sports. Valley City?

What about Shiloh? They are a 9 man team in the big city of Bismarck. Surely, that's unfair. Better schedule BHS. Or how about Oak Grove? They're in Fargo (FARGO wow!). They used to be AA now they're 9 man. They must win state right? You'll have to check with Run, but I doubt they've had a winning record since winning state. What about Our Redeemers? Their a private school in Minot, plus they coop with Berthold. With those kind of numbers and advantages they should win state at AAA.


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Re: 2013 Playoff Semifinals

Postby maddog1971 » Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:52 pm

First of all .... yes most of the bigger schools get winning programs. It is about money in the programs for the kids and staff that is willing to put in the time. They can not compete at the higher level. AAA does not have any more than 1 or 2 weak players on the field at a time. AA has any where from 3-5 weak players they have to hide.
The fact is you are playing where you are playing. Man up... step up and knockem in the mouth.
I followed the Kindred Program this year because I have a nephew playing. Those kids never used the size of the schools stop them for strapping it on.
Now do I like these private schoolssssss... no. It always seems all the calls go their way no matter what and in general I think they have poor sportsmanship... as Ryan showed at the end of the Playoff game this year.
Now quit complaining about poor private schools.... Really.... Money pours into the program and yes... many AAA players do go to these schools all the time.
Yes they have great training for these kids in the bigger cities compared to lets say Center ND.
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Re: 2013 Playoff Semifinals

Postby bball15 » Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:32 pm

maddog1971 wrote:First of all .... yes most of the bigger schools get winning programs. It is about money in the programs for the kids and staff that is willing to put in the time. They can not compete at the higher level. AAA does not have any more than 1 or 2 weak players on the field at a time. AA has any where from 3-5 weak players they have to hide.
The fact is you are playing where you are playing. Man up... step up and knockem in the mouth.
I followed the Kindred Program this year because I have a nephew playing. Those kids never used the size of the schools stop them for strapping it on.
Now do I like these private schoolssssss... no. It always seems all the calls go their way no matter what and in general I think they have poor sportsmanship... as Ryan showed at the end of the Playoff game this year.
Now quit complaining about poor private schools.... Really.... Money pours into the program and yes... many AAA players do go to these schools all the time.
Yes they have great training for these kids in the bigger cities compared to lets say Center ND.

I was at the Ryan vs Kindred game and am curious to why you say ryan showed poor sportsmanship, I didn't see anything.
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Re: 2013 Playoff Semifinals

Postby maddog1971 » Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:30 am

IF you were at the game, first of all you would have seen all the holding penalties against Kindred in the second half. The whole second have they were second at 20 or 25. Two offensive face masks...... on long running play and as Ryan QB was ripping kids helmets off on the two of his long TD's.
Second if you were on the side line for the second to the last play you could hear what the QB said to one of the LB that started with an F something 56.... and the ref's went after 56 when he went back at them a little.
After game I spoke with some players and ask did I hear what I thought I heard... and they said yep.
Very hard fought game and the Ryan QB is an unreal football talent.
But until the Ref's got involved.
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Re: 2013 Playoff Semifinals

Postby mags » Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:45 pm

Run, thanks for your oak grove breakdown, as always you are right on the ball with past years results. Espn should hire you.

as for the kindred posted. How can a ball carrier run with the ball, break tackles, score a TD, all while ripping defenders helmets off and not fumbling?

sounds like a Disney movie.

with that said both teams had some next level talent on the field and that was an awesome game to watch
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Re: 2013 Playoff Semifinals

Postby Indy5 » Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:00 pm

maddog1971 wrote:IF you were at the game, first of all you would have seen all the holding penalties against Kindred in the second half. The whole second have they were second at 20 or 25. Two offensive face masks...... on long running play and as Ryan QB was ripping kids helmets off on the two of his long TD's.
Second if you were on the side line for the second to the last play you could hear what the QB said to one of the LB that started with an F something 56.... and the ref's went after 56 when he went back at them a little.
After game I spoke with some players and ask did I hear what I thought I heard... and they said yep.
Very hard fought game and the Ryan QB is an unreal football talent.
But until the Ref's got involved.

I don't recall any offensive face masks. It was probably a hands to the face on a blocker. And in the first half Bishop Ryan was livid with what they thought were missed holding calls. Apparently those started getting called in the 2nd half.

As for the QB, Never once did he take someones helmet off. I don't think he even ever stiff armed anyone. And for the end of the game, I promise you no F word was said. There was beef with 56 though because the first knee ryan took he decided to blow up the line which upset the Ryan players.
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Re: 2013 Playoff Semifinals

Postby maddog1971 » Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:37 pm

Well yes there was two offensive face masks called on Kindred. Also the QB said what he said. If you were on the sidelines you would have heard it.
Yes it was a great game until the ref's took over. Why not let the kids play.
The Ryan QB is a flat out stud running QB. No he literally did not rip off any helmets but did grab some face masks. I have no problem not calling them but then don't call them on Kindred on a big play.
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