Hinsa wrote:I'll put these 5 up against anybody: Hillsboro -
Kyle Meyer - 6'5" center - strong, great defender, excellent shooter
Chipper Hanson - 6'3" forward - scored from anywhere against much taller defenders
Doug Waters - 6'3" forward - great leaper, outstanding offensive moves in the paint
Bill McLean - 6'0" guard - shot over 50% from the field as a guard from looooong range in an era when 40% shooting was considered good
Kyle Morehart - best overall point guard I can remember - cat quick, incredible passer, shot teardrops in the lane before anyone knew what they were
The Schwab wrote:Hinsa wrote:I'll put these 5 up against anybody: Hillsboro -
Kyle Meyer - 6'5" center - strong, great defender, excellent shooter
Chipper Hanson - 6'3" forward - scored from anywhere against much taller defenders
Doug Waters - 6'3" forward - great leaper, outstanding offensive moves in the paint
Bill McLean - 6'0" guard - shot over 50% from the field as a guard from looooong range in an era when 40% shooting was considered good
Kyle Morehart - best overall point guard I can remember - cat quick, incredible passer, shot teardrops in the lane before anyone knew what they were
that's a good lineup.....BUT
MPCG
Craig Nelson- Top 2 point guards in ND history
Ben Jacobson- Played at UND....stud
Travis Kraft- Played as South Carolina, got hosed for mr. bball
Chuck Klabo- Lets see some one on your team out muscle him
Kyle Nelson- Pretty dang good and 4 plus inches on your tallest guy.
and that's only using about an 8 year stretch....
Hinsa wrote:You're right Schwabby, you can't teach height, but you can box it out and play good position defense on it.
By the way, McLean was 6'0", Ben was 6'2". Not a 5" height advantage.
In no way do I want to diminish what Craig can do, I'm just saying that Morehart's quickness would give Craig fits.
Kraft-Hanson - you never saw Chipper fake, did you. He had guys jumping all over the place. Kraft would have 3 fouls in the first quarter. Can't score from the bench.
I'll give you Nelson scoring over Waters. But Doug was more than a low post player. He could step outside and score as well.
And a 1-2-1-1 press? Wouldn't bother the Burros at all. Who do you think popularized that press? And Morehart would dribble right through it. Seriously, If you saw Kyle play, you saw that he could not be cornered by a press.
I too, enjoy the debate. I will say this, I'd like to see anyone else come up with the same kind of storied history between neighboring schools. Basketball flows in the Goose River. It's just that Portland and Mayville take out all the tall minerals before the water gets to Hillsboro!
ndlionsfan wrote:I think Leeds would have a very strong team....overall they would be right up there with Hillsboro and MPCG. Minnewaukan, Wolford, and Munich could also field some excellent teams with their top 5 players if anyone would help me out with the names.
Jason Haagenson - top 5 career scorer in ND history over 2300 pts, 2 time all state, Mr Bball finalist
Kent Flickinger - scored over 1500 pts, excellent smooth shooter, all state
Brett Moser - scored over 1500 pts, Mr BBall finalist, 2 time all state
Kory Tollefson - another all state player with over 1000 pts in career
Erik Engstrom - 6'8" center with good quickness and moves, all state player, played 4 years at Jamestown
Derreck Hochstetler and Jeremy Wolf were Wolford players that played with Leeds in the early 90's and were both excellent players that could make this list, but I will keep it as Leeds players only.
The Schwab wrote:ndlionsfan wrote:I think Leeds would have a very strong team....overall they would be right up there with Hillsboro and MPCG. Minnewaukan, Wolford, and Munich could also field some excellent teams with their top 5 players if anyone would help me out with the names.
Jason Haagenson - top 5 career scorer in ND history over 2300 pts, 2 time all state, Mr Bball finalist
Kent Flickinger - scored over 1500 pts, excellent smooth shooter, all state
Brett Moser - scored over 1500 pts, Mr BBall finalist, 2 time all state
Kory Tollefson - another all state player with over 1000 pts in career
Erik Engstrom - 6'8" center with good quickness and moves, all state player, played 4 years at Jamestown
Derreck Hochstetler and Jeremy Wolf were Wolford players that played with Leeds in the early 90's and were both excellent players that could make this list, but I will keep it as Leeds players only.
Well i can throw out a couple of names for minnewauken from the days of listening to my dad talk about his former teammates and others he watch.
Kevin Ankenbauer (spelling) schools all time scoring leader
Jerry Cook- All stater
ndlionsfan wrote:I think Leeds would have a very strong team....overall they would be right up there with Hillsboro and MPCG. Minnewaukan, Wolford, and Munich could also field some excellent teams with their top 5 players if anyone would help me out with the names.
Jason Haagenson - top 5 career scorer in ND history over 2300 pts, 2 time all state, Mr Bball finalist
Kent Flickinger - scored over 1500 pts, excellent smooth shooter, all state
Brett Moser - scored over 1500 pts, Mr BBall finalist, 2 time all state
Kory Tollefson - another all state player with over 1000 pts in career
Erik Engstrom - 6'8" center with good quickness and moves, all state player, played 4 years at Jamestown
Derreck Hochstetler and Jeremy Wolf were Wolford players that played with Leeds in the early 90's and were both excellent players that could make this list, but I will keep it as Leeds players only.
The Schwab wrote:well...i will disagree still....Craig Nelson is by FAR the smartest basketball player i have ever seen, he wasn't the scorer that morehart was, but if MPCG ever needed a basket Craig would come up with it...I'll give that matchup a wash...and i think i'm being generous
If McLean matched up on Jacobson- Ben would take him down in the post and ABUSE him, 5 inches and a soft touch = bad news for McLean
Travis Kraft is the most skilled player I've seen, I've heard my dad tell stories about Chipper Hanson...he was good...but Kraft would work him all game long. And I'm assuming that your refering to "the game" when hillsboro beat MPCG one week too soon.
I'll be nice and give ya the Klabo/Meyer matchup- Klabo was a rebounder and a defensive low post presence
Waters and Nelson- Again you can't teach height and nelson would have his way inside
Coaching I can't argue against Eddie....but i don't think even he would have a game plan to stop this basketball machine. (and ya never know, Craig might show his Grandpa a thing or too )
On Defense MPCG could put a 1-2-1-1 press on them and give the Burros nightmares
I will enjoy debating this one back and forth
itsallabouteddie wrote:The Schwab wrote:well...i will disagree still....Craig Nelson is by FAR the smartest basketball player i have ever seen, he wasn't the scorer that morehart was, but if MPCG ever needed a basket Craig would come up with it...I'll give that matchup a wash...and i think i'm being generous
If McLean matched up on Jacobson- Ben would take him down in the post and ABUSE him, 5 inches and a soft touch = bad news for McLean
Travis Kraft is the most skilled player I've seen, I've heard my dad tell stories about Chipper Hanson...he was good...but Kraft would work him all game long. And I'm assuming that your refering to "the game" when hillsboro beat MPCG one week too soon.
I'll be nice and give ya the Klabo/Meyer matchup- Klabo was a rebounder and a defensive low post presence
Waters and Nelson- Again you can't teach height and nelson would have his way inside
Coaching I can't argue against Eddie....but i don't think even he would have a game plan to stop this basketball machine. (and ya never know, Craig might show his Grandpa a thing or too )
On Defense MPCG could put a 1-2-1-1 press on them and give the Burros nightmares
I will enjoy debating this one back and forth
i think morehart would give nelson fits. craig was quick but morehart is vastly quicker even still today
i think jacobson would have a slight edge of mclean
kraft would absolutely get owned by chipper. Chipper has no weakness the only thing kraft has on him is
height, which wouldn't bother Chipper. Hinsa is right about Olsen dominating him. I don't know what you are talking about the winning a week too soon. we beat MPCG in the district and regional title game. you must be talking about '96 which if not for illness probably could have happened again
"Bongo" would have the upper hand on klabo, on any of them Chuck, Darren, Leah you name it!!
i don't care how tall kyle nelson is, he's not very physical and waters would punish him inside. ask old mayville people
like was stated earlier who do you think taught Dave how to run the 1-2-1-1 or as its properly called the T-Bird Press? What do you think press Coach Nelson ran when he helped guide Hillsboro over Epping in '77? That press issue is a push.
the fact that Coach Beyer led the '96 team over MPCG, in a game hillsboro dominated for most of it, if you don't believe me i still have the tape of it, would tell me the "superburros would win over the superpatriots.
ndlionsfan wrote:Schwab, I don't know why you're so in love with Travis Kraft but he was not as good as you make him out to be. Yes, he was a great player but we've had this argument before and he was not top 5 all time in ND. The reason he was so good was that he was a 6'7" guard and that creates a huge matchup problem for almost all small class B schools. If you take his talent and athletic ability and shrink him down to 6' then we're not even having this conversation. And the way you talk about Chuck Klabo is an absolute joke. The best low post defender you've ever seen?? Give me a break. When we played against them we had no one over 6'2" and anywhere near 100lbs of Klabo and we dominated him down low. He was big and slow and we had our way with him on offense and on the boards. His offense was back people down to 2ft from the hoop, use his height and turn around and score. Basically like Shaq....no touch or outside game whatsoever. For being a second team allstater and averaging 14 pt and 14 boards you'd think he could get a lot more than 2pts and 1 board against a team made up of basically 5 guards on the court.
The Schwab wrote:ndlionsfan wrote:Schwab, I don't know why you're so in love with Travis Kraft but he was not as good as you make him out to be. Yes, he was a great player but we've had this argument before and he was not top 5 all time in ND. The reason he was so good was that he was a 6'7" guard and that creates a huge matchup problem for almost all small class B schools. If you take his talent and athletic ability and shrink him down to 6' then we're not even having this conversation. And the way you talk about Chuck Klabo is an absolute joke. The best low post defender you've ever seen?? Give me a break. When we played against them we had no one over 6'2" and anywhere near 100lbs of Klabo and we dominated him down low. He was big and slow and we had our way with him on offense and on the boards. His offense was back people down to 2ft from the hoop, use his height and turn around and score. Basically like Shaq....no touch or outside game whatsoever. For being a second team allstater and averaging 14 pt and 14 boards you'd think he could get a lot more than 2pts and 1 board against a team made up of basically 5 guards on the court.
See that's the wonderful thing about height, he wasn't 6 foot he was 6' 7", He went D-1 and yes he could have played all four years, but they changed coaches after his freshman year. As for your comments on Klabo, that's one game...14 and 14 is a pretty good line when your the 4th option on the court. I'm not in love with Travis Kraft, I'm just really tired of people saying he's not good...did you watch him....seriously...and back to the subject, MPCG would win.
ndlionsfan wrote:MPCG vs Hillsboro isn't the subject.....I'll put up Leeds vs MPCG
PG - Brett Moser vs Craig Nelson....yeah Moser played a 3 his last two years, but he took a team to state playing the point as a sophomore. Craig and him are close to the same size, build, and speed. They were both great shooters and two of the smartest players I've seen play. It's a tossup.
SG - Jason Haagenson vs Ben Jacobson....not even close here. Haagenson would win this matchup. Tough as nails, quick as heck, best player on the court for each of these teams period.
SF - Corey Bisbee or Carl Ahlberg vs Kraft....pretty close matchup, but I'll give the edge to Kraft. Ahlberg and Kraft guarded each other in the 98 state tourney and played basically even on both ends of the court. Bisbee was another tough player, but since Ahlberg was a bit taller (6'2" to 5'10") I'd take him to match up against Kraft.
PF - Jeremy Wolf vs Klabo....not even close here either. Wolf is the best player from ND that nobody has heard of. If Wolford would have kept their stats when he was playing varsity in JH before playing with Leeds, he would have been one of the top 10 scorers in ND history. Wolf's post moves and soft touch would have dominated Klabo and their height and weight is basically a wash. He was a monster of the boards as well and Klabo wouldn't get a single offensive board.
C - Erik Engstrom vs. Kyle Nelsen...another close matchup. Could really go either way, but I'll give a slight edge to Nelsen. Kyle really improved his senior year and I was really impressed with how he played inside. He was very fundamentally sound. Engstrom was a good scorer and defender, but just like Nelsen didn't play against too many people his same size in HS. If you put them head to head, Nelsen gets the nod because of fundamentals.
Overall, I think if these two teams played against each other 10 times, Leeds pulls it off 6-4 with the difference being Jason Haagenson. He would take them on his back when it mattered and will his team to a win.
ndlionsfan wrote:MPCG vs Hillsboro isn't the subject.....I'll put up Leeds vs MPCG
PG - Brett Moser vs Craig Nelson....yeah Moser played a 3 his last two years, but he took a team to state playing the point as a sophomore. Craig and him are close to the same size, build, and speed. They were both great shooters and two of the smartest players I've seen play. It's a tossup.
SG - Jason Haagenson vs Ben Jacobson....not even close here. Haagenson would win this matchup. Tough as nails, quick as heck, best player on the court for each of these teams period.
SF - Corey Bisbee or Carl Ahlberg vs Kraft....pretty close matchup, but I'll give the edge to Kraft. Ahlberg and Kraft guarded each other in the 98 state tourney and played basically even on both ends of the court. Bisbee was another tough player, but since Ahlberg was a bit taller (6'2" to 5'10") I'd take him to match up against Kraft.
PF - Jeremy Wolf vs Klabo....not even close here either. Wolf is the best player from ND that nobody has heard of. If Wolford would have kept their stats when he was playing varsity in JH before playing with Leeds, he would have been one of the top 10 scorers in ND history. Wolf's post moves and soft touch would have dominated Klabo and their height and weight is basically a wash. He was a monster of the boards as well and Klabo wouldn't get a single offensive board.
C - Erik Engstrom vs. Kyle Nelsen...another close matchup. Could really go either way, but I'll give a slight edge to Nelsen. Kyle really improved his senior year and I was really impressed with how he played inside. He was very fundamentally sound. Engstrom was a good scorer and defender, but just like Nelsen didn't play against too many people his same size in HS. If you put them head to head, Nelsen gets the nod because of fundamentals.
Overall, I think if these two teams played against each other 10 times, Leeds pulls it off 6-4 with the difference being Jason Haagenson. He would take them on his back when it mattered and will his team to a win.
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