grafton vs. shanley

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grafton vs. shanley

Postby hockeymaster » Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:19 pm

any thoughts on the grafton shanley game? i heard it was a very close faught game.
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Re: grafton vs. shanley

Postby Unity77 » Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:05 pm

Grafton won 6 - 3 and outshot Shanley 58 to 29. I'm not sure how one could consider that outcome close.
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Re: grafton vs. shanley

Postby fargohockey1093 » Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:15 pm

Were you at the game? the score was 3-3 till the last 5 minutes of the game
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Re: grafton vs. shanley

Postby Favre#1 » Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:35 pm

fargohockey1093 wrote:Were you at the game? the score was 3-3 till the last 5 minutes of the game

Were you at the game????Shanley was dominated the whole game i don't care what the score was.
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Re: grafton vs. shanley

Postby hockeymaster » Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:06 pm

it was a VERY close game. shanley was winning 3-2 going into the 3rd period, both teams played great, yes grafton had more shots, but thats the case in every shanley game, they still find ways to win. i image if those teams play again it will also be another close game
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Re: grafton vs. shanley

Postby HockeyHigh » Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:46 pm

To be honest, I sense a lot of Shanley players have learned about this forum, and you're making a bad image for yourselves (Looking at join dates and the bias in your posts). When you're getting outshot by double or more and have a total of 6 EDC points, I don't think you have much to brag about.

The fact at this point is that Grafton has been struggling all year, and with a shallow defensive core all around, they've been hitting a rough spot all year. This would attribute for Shanley's 3 goals. Stokke has been a solid tender for Shanley and is basically the only reason that Shanley isn't getting scored on in the double digits at this point in the year, but once you get past Stokke there isn't much stopping teams from running up those scores. Stokke is averaging probably 45 shots per game (for most goalies this actually makes playing in net easier) and good for him, but I don't want to see what happens if he has a bad game come EDC.
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Re: grafton vs. shanley

Postby Sioux4ever » Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:35 pm

hockeymaster wrote:it was a VERY close game. shanley was winning 3-2 going into the 3rd period, both teams played great, yes grafton had more shots, but thats the case in every shanley game, they still find ways to win. i image if those teams play again it will also be another close game


I think it is tough to say they still find ways to win when they have 2 EDC wins and both are against Wahpeton. I believe they are improving, but without the goalie they have, they would be in tough shape.
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Re: grafton vs. shanley

Postby fargohockey1093 » Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:48 am

HockeyHigh wrote:To be honest, I sense a lot of Shanley players have learned about this forum, and you're making a bad image for yourselves (Looking at join dates and the bias in your posts). When you're getting outshot by double or more and have a total of 6 EDC points, I don't think you have much to brag about.

The fact at this point is that Grafton has been struggling all year, and with a shallow defensive core all around, they've been hitting a rough spot all year. This would attribute for Shanley's 3 goals. Stokke has been a solid tender for Shanley and is basically the only reason that Shanley isn't getting scored on in the double digits at this point in the year, but once you get past Stokke there isn't much stopping teams from running up those scores. Stokke is averaging probably 45 shots per game (for most goalies this actually makes playing in net easier) and good for him, but I don't want to see what happens if he has a bad game come EDC.


double digits? are you kidding me? if an average of 45 shots per game with even a 80% is 9 goals per game. thats not double digits. Shanley has a much better shooting percentace also so for the less shots they put up they still score more goals on ten shots than most teams
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Re: grafton vs. shanley

Postby central hockey fan » Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:50 pm

fargohockey1093 wrote:
HockeyHigh wrote:To be honest, I sense a lot of Shanley players have learned about this forum, and you're making a bad image for yourselves (Looking at join dates and the bias in your posts). When you're getting outshot by double or more and have a total of 6 EDC points, I don't think you have much to brag about.

The fact at this point is that Grafton has been struggling all year, and with a shallow defensive core all around, they've been hitting a rough spot all year. This would attribute for Shanley's 3 goals. Stokke has been a solid tender for Shanley and is basically the only reason that Shanley isn't getting scored on in the double digits at this point in the year, but once you get past Stokke there isn't much stopping teams from running up those scores. Stokke is averaging probably 45 shots per game (for most goalies this actually makes playing in net easier) and good for him, but I don't want to see what happens if he has a bad game come EDC.


double digits? are you kidding me? if an average of 45 shots per game with even a 80% is 9 goals per game. thats not double digits. Shanley has a much better shooting percentace also so for the less shots they put up they still score more goals on ten shots than most teams


Come on now, do you think any coach would be happy about getting out shot that badly?? I agree that without their goalie standing on his head, they would be in trouble big time. I wish Shanley would get better, I think better competition makes everyone better but right now, they are playing hard but not well enough.
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Re: grafton vs. shanley

Postby hockeymaster » Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:52 pm

seems as if people like to rip on shanley, i personally am a shanley fan, look at the numbers for south, how many kids tried out for them? look at shanley? 27 kids for a jv and varsity team. but if you fine fellows making fun of shanley gets you to bed at night then w/e floats your boat. i personally think they have a ton of potential in the next couple years
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Re: grafton vs. shanley

Postby fargohockey1093 » Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:26 pm

Team Totals 20 75 812 738 3.7 90.9 % [9 - 8 - 3] 0

Opponents 20 77 636 559 3.8 88.1 % [8 - 9 - 3] 1

the bolded above is shots on net

divide these by 20 games- avg. Shots against shanley-- 40.6
avg shots for shanley-------- 28
40.6/28= getting outshot by and average of 12.6 shots per game.

in italics goals against- Shanley has scored more than been scored on
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Re: grafton vs. shanley

Postby Sioux4ever » Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:56 pm

fargohockey1093 wrote:Team Totals 20 75 812 738 3.7 90.9 % [9 - 8 - 3] 0
Opponents 20 77 636 559 3.8 88.1 % [8 - 9 - 3] 1
the bolded above is shots on net
divide these by 20 games- avg. Shots against shanley-- 40.6
avg shots for shanley-------- 28
40.6/28= getting outshot by and average of 12.6 shots per game.
in italics goals against- Shanley has scored more than been scored on


To the above 2 posts, I don't think anyone is a Shanley hater here and I think everyone is very glad that they have been able to field a boys HS team. Another team means 20+ more kids playing High School hockey in the state. What I think people are commenting on, is that pro-shanley fans come on here and boast about how Shanley is right there with the top dogs of the state when in fact they are not even close. They are a hard working team and hopefully will continue to improve. They seem to have a good coaching staff, and hopefully that will continue to allow the team to improve in the future. Also, I personally feel the above stats are a bit inflated. Why don't you compare the EDC stats, I think those stats would be a better comparison of how they are doing on the season. They don't exactly play the toughest non-conference schedule in the state.
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Re: grafton vs. shanley

Postby HockeyHigh » Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:05 am

Sioux4ever wrote:They don't exactly play the toughest non-conference schedule in the state.


Agreed on your entire post, especially this part in dissent to Fargohockey. According to the USHSO, Shanley is playing the fourth from worst schedule in the state, and this includes conference games against teams like Central, South, RR and Grafton. If you make it non-conference games only, Shanley would likely have the second to easiest schedule in the state, right above Wahpeton. I have honestly never even heard of Prairie Centre, Willmar, River Lakes, Kittson Central, or Morris MN in reference to their hockey teams, ever . Not surprisingly, Shanley won all these nonconference games.

Am I anti-Shanley? Quite the opposite actually. I think that any competition that is raising the bar in North Dakota is incredible for our hockey. We need more competition in this state, and it shows. When we only field 1-2 teams a year that would be ranked in the top twenty of a neighboring state, I'd like to see improvement. However, the reason that I'm 'putting down' Shanley in any way is because of (what I'm assuming) Shanley players making accounts and claiming games were far closer than they really were. Whether the score itself was close or not (Thank Stokke for this the majority of the time), the better team will find a way to win. Shanley has yet to win a game they 'shouldn't have'.
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Re: grafton vs. shanley

Postby fargohockey1093 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:49 am

how does recently making an account make you from shanley?
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Re: grafton vs. shanley

Postby fargohockey1093 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:50 am

Favre#1 wrote:
fargohockey1093 wrote:Were you at the game? the score was 3-3 till the last 5 minutes of the game

Were you at the game????Shanley was dominated the whole game i don't care what the score was.

from what ive heard farve#1 is chris stokke himself
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Re: grafton vs. shanley

Postby hockeymaster » Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:51 am

stokke this stokke that? a goaltender is made by his team, go to a game, wake up, maybe then youll see if its close or not, cause ive personally watched the rr game be CLOSE ive watched the grafton game be VERY CLOSE and shanley tied wf in a game that i really thought they would win. change your name to shanleybasher hockeyhigh!
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Re: grafton vs. shanley

Postby fargohockey1093 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:51 am

HockeyHigh wrote:
Sioux4ever wrote:They don't exactly play the toughest non-conference schedule in the state.


Agreed on your entire post, especially this part in dissent to Fargohockey. According to the USHSO, Shanley is playing the fourth from worst schedule in the state, and this includes conference games against teams like Central, South, RR and Grafton. If you make it non-conference games only, Shanley would likely have the second to easiest schedule in the state, right above Wahpeton. I have honestly never even heard of Prairie Centre, Willmar, River Lakes, Kittson Central, or Morris MN in reference to their hockey teams, ever . Not surprisingly, Shanley won all these nonconference games.

Am I anti-Shanley? Quite the opposite actually. I think that any competition that is raising the bar in North Dakota is incredible for our hockey. We need more competition in this state, and it shows. When we only field 1-2 teams a year that would be ranked in the top twenty of a neighboring state, I'd like to see improvement. However, the reason that I'm 'putting down' Shanley in any way is because of (what I'm assuming) Shanley players making accounts and claiming games were far closer than they really were. Whether the score itself was close or not (Thank Stokke for this the majority of the time), the better team will find a way to win. Shanley has yet to win a game they 'shouldn't have'.


If you have watched any shanley games at all you would know that they can be competitive at times and have like five minute breakdowns where they get scored on a bunch
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Re: grafton vs. shanley

Postby hockeymaster » Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:54 am

very true statement fargohockey, very true
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Re: grafton vs. shanley

Postby fargohockey1093 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:02 pm

so you are talking about how EVERY game they are getting outshot and then now since that doesnt work you go to how they have an easier schedule just because they arent a very competitive team this year?
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Re: grafton vs. shanley

Postby SportsDoc » Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:14 pm

Shots on goal do not always tell the whole story, either. If Team "A" cannot play an uptempo game with rush after rush with Team "B", their coaches might devise a game plan to make them as competitive as possible in as many games as possible.

One example that I have seen work is a sort of "rope-a-dope" game plan. Don't be too offensive minded. Stay in your own zone with everybody. Keep the better team to the outside with the puck, don't let them in the slot areas where possible. Give them all the point and wall shots they want and try to prevent rebounds. Wait for Team "B" to get frustrated, look for a few odd man rush opportunities, and hope you score on a couple of them. The shots on goal will look horrible, but you might steal a win if you get good defense and goaltending.

Williston used this against RR two years ago in the first round, and led 2-1 with 6 minutes left, before losing 4-2. They were outshot about 50 to 15. They could have closed the shots on goal disparity by being more offensive minded (they were not a horrible offensive team that year) but would have lost the game by a much wider margin and would have had zero chance to win. Playing it as they did, they had a chance to win, and in the end it's about the wins, not the shots. Teams have to play to their strengths and away from the oppositions strengths (especially when the opponents are more skilled and have a deeper roster), and coaches who can do that deserve credit for finding ways to be competitive.

Is Shanley going to be competitive with South trying to go toe to toe with rush after rush? Not this year. So they devise a game plan to allow them to win as many games as they can, and stay in quite a few more. Good for them, and good for the players for giving up stats to buy into a system where the team has chances to win games against better teams.
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Re: grafton vs. shanley

Postby hockeymaster » Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:21 pm

SportsDoc wrote:Shots on goal do not always tell the whole story, either. If Team "A" cannot play an uptempo game with rush after rush with Team "B", their coaches might devise a game plan to make them as competitive as possible in as many games as possible.

One example that I have seen work is a sort of "rope-a-dope" game plan. Don't be too offensive minded. Stay in your own zone with everybody. Keep the better team to the outside with the puck, don't let them in the slot areas where possible. Give them all the point and wall shots they want and try to prevent rebounds. Wait for Team "B" to get frustrated, look for a few odd man rush opportunities, and hope you score on a couple of them. The shots on goal will look horrible, but you might steal a win if you get good defense and goaltending.

Williston used this against RR two years ago in the first round, and led 2-1 with 6 minutes left, before losing 4-2. They were outshot about 50 to 15. They could have closed the shots on goal disparity by being more offensive minded (they were not a horrible offensive team that year) but would have lost the game by a much wider margin and would have had zero chance to win. Playing it as they did, they had a chance to win, and in the end it's about the wins, not the shots. Teams have to play to their strengths and away from the oppositions strengths (especially when the opponents are more skilled and have a deeper roster), and coaches who can do that deserve credit for finding ways to be competitive.

Is Shanley going to be competitive with South trying to go toe to toe with rush after rush? Not this year. So they devise a game plan to allow them to win as many games as they can, and stay in quite a few more. Good for them, and good for the players for giving up stats to buy into a system where the team has chances to win games against better teams.



very very true sports doc. if i were on a team, i would have faith for our goalie to stop any outside shot given. quality shots are not a stat, but if they were they would be a close stat in shanley games. yes they give up a lot of chances, but the goals they give up are hard earned, ball bustin, hardworking goals. rarely do teams score easy goals from the outside. shanley has talent that could put up alota points a game, but they play a different style, a more conservative style. they allow many shots, and dont get many shots, but they set up there opportunities. i counted atleast 8 good scoring opportunities against gpr, and id say against south they had atleast the opportunity to get atleast 1 or 2 more goals. yes south is a more talented team, im not arguing that. but i do believe teams like wf, north, devils lake, mandan, grafton, and all those mediocre teams are in a run for it, shanley sure has the ability to beat theses teams. i just love coming on here and seeing that if shanley looses a game, its because they dont work hard, or because there not good enough, and when shanley wins that its because of a fluke or a couple lucky goals.
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Re: grafton vs. shanley

Postby central hockey fan » Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:47 pm

Man, I haven't read one post on this whole thread that is "bashing" Shanley. Frankly, if a program wants to improve they should be able to look at themselves honestly. I'm sure if we spoke to their coach and he was being honest, he would say that they have came a long way but still have a ways to go to compete with the top teams in the EDC. None of us are saying the kids aren't doing the best they can or that the coaches aren't doing the best they can, just be real. That's all anyone is saying.

GFC, South, RR, GPR all have areas that they must improve on to play and win consistently. Heck no team is above improving. So please stop saying anyone is "bashing" Shanley. We just aren't.
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Re: grafton vs. shanley

Postby fargohockey1093 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:37 pm

j
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Re: grafton vs. shanley

Postby HockeyHigh » Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:48 pm

fargohockey1093 wrote:how does recently making an account make you from shanley?


It doesn't, however there have been accounts created by people from Shanley and they seem to take pride in talking themselves up on these forums, and this generalization is far from definite. The accounts created in January and February of 09 that come on here and post about how some specific team/player is so good generally seems suspicious, especially when they have 'insider information' that they don't seem to know how they got. :oops:

Past this, I don't think that Shanley should take shame in the fact that they're a team that's building up, rather than starting from the top. I believe that GPR, South, GFC and GFRR are all prime examples of building a program up that has had trouble lately. Last year GPR won state, and now they're in a slump. This year and coming years they will build back up and become a bustling program yet again with however many players they can field. South last year was hardly over a .500 team, and this year they are (at this point) 17-1-1 with one of the most difficult schedules in the state, and only look to improve on that record. GFC has been beaten up in the past few years and have had to rebuild from the ground up with players as young as Freshmen, and they're fighting for the top three spots in the EDC, and you can't tell me that's not improvement. Red River, above all, has shown that you can go from holding the most seniors in the state and hardly playing any underclassmen, graduate them all, and still be a part of the top team in the state year after year. The only thing keeping Shanley from getting into this spot is themselves, and realizing that each improvement they make to their team gets them that much closer to being a top team in the state.
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Re: grafton vs. shanley

Postby hockeymaster » Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:55 pm

i can agree on that statement hockeyhigh. i do believe wit shanleys low numbers, that a consistantly top team is unlikely, but who says it cannot be done. grafton, even with there small numbers is an impressive team, or has been up until this year, it all boils down to who puts in the time. any team in the state has potential, especially with the school splits upcoming. i guess we'll see how it plays out..
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