Senior Athletes of the Year According to me

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Senior Athletes of the Year According to me

Postby opinionated » Sun May 17, 2009 7:01 am

Have you ever heard of Senior Andy Lillejord? He has some impressive stats:
Lillejord: High Jump state qualified 6th
Lillejord: Long Jump state qualified 1st
Lillejord: Triple Jump state qualified 2nd
Lillejord: Pole Vault state qualified 1st

Brett Qvale
State Qualified and farthest time Shot Put

You be the judge, I'm just saying
Last edited by opinionated on Mon May 18, 2009 8:46 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: WDA Senior AThlete of the Year Candidates

Postby Baller_2010 » Sun May 17, 2009 7:45 am

Actually to correct you - Lillejord won the TJ as well (did not get 2nd) and was 3rd in the high jump (not 6th).
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Re: WDA Senior AThlete of the Year Candidates

Postby powercat » Sun May 17, 2009 9:37 am

he means those are his state rankings....not his place at wda.... any ways Like the first poster said no one knows who he is. He went under the radar and thats why i think he didnt even get the runner up place
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Re: WDA Senior AThlete of the Year Candidates

Postby balla45 » Sun May 17, 2009 12:12 pm

I personally thought Lillejord would have been WDA senior athlete of the year. He dominates in multiple events. I asked a coach why Qvale was nominated over him, and the response I got was basically that Qvale has a chance at winning 3 Class A shot put titles, and it has never been done before.
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Re: WDA Senior AThlete of the Year Candidates

Postby opinionated » Sun May 17, 2009 10:39 pm

Thanks, that was exactly to what I was referring. I cannot go with what you "might" accomplish when the award is for WDA Senior of the Year and a shot at Athlete of the Year. We must always go with the known results and not the what ifs. If you are going to be giving awards to people then there should be some criteria established or don't do it. I understand there will always be some subjective matter introduced into the equation but a great way would be to take into consideration these things:

Time/Distance (for example was a school record broke or a spot in the top ten all time)
Number of qualified entries in the State Meet (not places gained simply by finishing in the top six)
Total number of points scored during the season (for relays you could divide the points scored by 4)

If you score the Seniors like a track meet then the cream will rise to the top.
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Re: WDA Senior AThlete of the Year Candidates

Postby opinionated » Mon May 18, 2009 8:42 am

I took the time and using the state qualifying Seniors I took 5 minutes and scored them like a track meet. I gave 1 point for a Top 10 All- Time Performance for this year. There is no need for anything subjective, opinionated or biased, the results are right in front of you...

Here are the top 5 boys, Congratulations

Ryan Todhunter 34 points (2 top 10 all-time)
Andy Lillejord 29 points
Joash Osoro 22 (1 top 10 all-time
Devin Huizenga 20.5
Josh Beaudoin 17.5

Here the top 5 girls, Congratulations

Jill Steinwand 28 points (1 top 10 all-time)
Megan Meyer 15.5 ( 1 top 10 all-time)
Nicole Messer 12.5 (1 top 10 all-time
Shelby Walsh 10
Steph Greer 9
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Re: Senior Athletes of the Year According to me

Postby 14>35 » Mon May 18, 2009 10:00 am

touche
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Re: WDA Senior AThlete of the Year Candidates

Postby balla45 » Mon May 18, 2009 12:54 pm

opinionated wrote:I took the time and using the state qualifying Seniors I took 5 minutes and scored them like a track meet. I gave 1 point for a Top 10 All- Time Performance for this year. There is no need for anything subjective, opinionated or biased, the results are right in front of you...

Here are the top 5 boys, Congratulations

Ryan Todhunter 34 points (2 top 10 all-time)
Andy Lillejord 29 points
Joash Osoro 22 (1 top 10 all-time
Devin Huizenga 20.5
Josh Beaudoin 17.5

Here the top 5 girls, Congratulations

Jill Steinwand 28 points (1 top 10 all-time)
Megan Meyer 15.5 ( 1 top 10 all-time)
Nicole Messer 12.5 (1 top 10 all-time
Shelby Walsh 10
Steph Greer 9


I agree with you in most aspects of this...Here is my question. Should Joash be penalized for the fact that the only distance events are the 1600 and the 3200? I would assume that if there was a 4800 and a 6400 or something like that, he would be number 1. Do I think Lillejord got the shaft? Yes. But, I can see why the coaches voted as they did.

Only other problem I have with your system is that some events have more talented athletes. It is much easier to be good at hurlding (maybe 10 qualifiers) than it is to be good at the sprints (20+ qualifiers in each.) I think Challis Williams is a top 5 senior track athlete, he just has to compete with people like Smith, Todhunter, Smart, etc.

MY top 5 would be

1. Todhunter (I bet Joash wins though.)
2. Lillejord
3. Osoro
4. Huizenga
5. Williams

There are obviously very subjective. I like Todhunter as number 1, because of how much he wins by. Lillejord would be my number 2 because he is able to be very good at a large variety of events. Osoro would be 3 because although he is dominant, he doesn't have the range that Todhunter and Lillejord do.

This isn't meant to bash Qvale at all, because I can imagine how hard it would be to win 1 state title, let alone three, but I have a problem with people who excel in only one event being AOTY. I think the AOTY should have qualified in a minimum of 3 events, unless it is a thrower, I think they should have to qualify in 2, because sprinters, jumpers, hurdlers, distance runners have more events. There are 3 total throwing events, and there are A LOT of running events, jumps, and relays. Sprinters have the 1,2, 4, and LJ. Jumpers have LJ, HJ, TJ, PV. Throwers have SP, DT, JT. Hurlders have the 1, 2, 4, 110, 300s. Distance runners have the 8, 16, 32. Obviously all of these people have relays that they can qualify in, with the exception of the throwers.
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Re: Senior Athletes of the Year According to me

Postby balla45 » Mon May 18, 2009 1:02 pm

What I meant by depth of the competition.

Say a person runs a 2.00 in the 800 and is ranked number 1, while another person high jumps 6'7'' and is ranked number 3. The 6'7'' high jumper is still more impressive, even though he has a lower state rank.
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Re: Senior Athletes of the Year According to me

Postby opinionated » Mon May 18, 2009 1:49 pm

"Should Joash be penalized for the fact that the only distance events are the 1600 and the 3200? I would assume that if there was a 4800 and a 6400 or something like that"
1. The simple answer here is my way takes all the what ifs out of the equation. You can only score on events that the NDHSAA has endorsed. You could use this argument for 400 meter hurdles and 500 meter hurdles.
" Do I think Lillejord got the shaft? Yes. But, I can see why the coaches voted as they did."
2. I guess this is where we will have to part, I cannot understand why he would not have been considered a contender, afterall the award is called the Senior Athlete of the Year. If it is "guy I like best", "nicest kid", "just because we want to", then I can agree with you, so I will respectfully disagree.
"It is much easier to be good at hurlding (maybe 10 qualifiers) than it is to be good at the sprints (20+ qualifiers in each.) "
3. You point is noted but there are many more events for sprinters (100, 200, 4X100 relay, 4X200 relay) while a hurdler has only 2 chances to show his stuff. Yes, I know there are guys who hurdle that also run on a relay team. What separates most of these male athletes is the fact that they have qualified in in numerous events as you have noted, with Osoro qualified in 3 (1 top 10 all-time), Huizenga, Beaudoin, Lillejard qualified in 4, and Todhunter qualified in 6 events plus ( 2 top 10 all-time).
"I think Challis Williams is a top 5 senior track athlete, he just has to compete with people like Smith, Todhunter, Smart, etc."
4. I agree with you that Challis Williams is a great athlete, but you have got to beat the best to be considered the best. Even if we would give Quale double the points for having the top time in Shot Put because there are less events for him to compete in, he wtill would have only accumulated 20 points. I am not bashing either, I have no personal vendetta against anyone, I just think that if you are going to give an award for Senior Athlete of the Year, it should go to the best and I happen to think that based on number of qualifications Todhunter is the winner this year. Just my opinion
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Re: Senior Athletes of the Year According to me

Postby opinionated » Mon May 18, 2009 1:52 pm

If you do have an exceptional effort you are awarded extra points for that based off Top 10 all-time.
I love the debate with you... Too bad no one is asking our opinons on this subject, huh. Maybe we could come up with criteria so that this award is based purely on Athletic ability. I would be up for the task, what say you?
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Re: Senior Athletes of the Year According to me

Postby balla45 » Mon May 18, 2009 2:09 pm

I would say the maximum points can be 50 points for a non thrower and 30 points for a thrower. We would have to come up with a formula for how much off of the qualifying standard a person needs to be for their points.

Example, running a 1.58 800 would equal high jumping 6'5''. Something like that. Or vaulting 14' would equal throwing shot 50'.
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Re: Senior Athletes of the Year According to me

Postby Thirty » Mon May 18, 2009 7:46 pm

I think Osoro's taking 3rd(If I'm not mistaken) in a national cross country meet might've influenced the judges decision, whether it should or not. And we all know that Qvale is going to win his 3rd shot put title, I dont think there's any maybe about it
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Re: Senior Athletes of the Year According to me

Postby WalkingStick » Mon May 18, 2009 8:03 pm

I do agree that the Jamestown jumper was overlooked!
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Re: Senior Athletes of the Year According to me

Postby BHSrunner » Mon May 18, 2009 8:31 pm

Thirty wrote:I think Osoro's taking 3rd(If I'm not mistaken) in a national cross country meet might've influenced the judges decision, whether it should or not. And we all know that Qvale is going to win his 3rd shot put title, I dont think there's any maybe about it


I doubt the XC placing played into it. However, is past performance factored in the decision like balla45 said? If so, Joash has placing since a freshman, doing very well as a soph, and demolishing competition since his Junior year. So... 4 time WDA champion( 2 in the 1600, 2 in the 3200), 2 time state champion, and the unquestioned favorite going into state. I don't know a lot about the other guys at all as far as the past, but that is a solid record. I definitely think his nomination was deserved.
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Re: Senior Athletes of the Year According to me

Postby balla45 » Mon May 18, 2009 9:20 pm

It also doesn't help Lillejord that he was relatively unknown. I know kids that have never been to a track meet who know who Joash is. Everyone in North Dakota knows who Qvale is. The only people who seem to know Lillejord are legit track&field enthusiasts.
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Re: Senior Athletes of the Year According to me

Postby opinionated » Mon May 18, 2009 11:26 pm

No one is disputing he should be a candidate. I was simply pointing out that there might have been someone overlooked who might have been more deserving than Brent Qvale. This is my sole opinion, I wasn't asked for any input into the decision but that does not mean that I can not question or ask what the criteria might be that one uses to come to a conclusion. I am a huge fact based person and I like statistics to base something on. There are many talented kids that could have received this award. Good Luck to all those nominated.
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Re: Senior Athletes of the Year According to me

Postby balla45 » Tue May 19, 2009 1:24 am

I would like to see what the final votes were. I was genuinely shocked that Lillejord didn't at least get 2nd place.
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Re: Senior Athletes of the Year According to me

Postby squeak63 » Tue May 19, 2009 9:41 am

Thirty wrote:I think Osoro's taking 3rd(If I'm not mistaken) in a national cross country meet might've influenced the judges decision, whether it should or not. And we all know that Qvale is going to win his 3rd shot put title, I dont think there's any maybe about it

i would say there is a little maybe but i am still giveing him about a 99% chance of winning it... Mammenga from west fargo threw a 56 somethin in indoor and is seeded with a 55 something so he does have a outside chance of beating qvale but he is going to have to throw really well to do this... the thing about qvale is he has an intimidation factor on other throwers sometimes... i mean when a 6'8" 320 lb guy walks into the ring and powers it 53-54 ft. the first time you see it you get kind of shell shocked
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Re: Senior Athletes of the Year According to me

Postby Wild Wolves » Wed May 20, 2009 3:55 am

Could be that the award is voted on by the coaches and Jamestown chooses not to attend the West Region meets, or at least as many. Meaning that the coaches are not exposed to him as often. You know the saying, "Out of sight out of mind."
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