Time for change....again???

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Time for change....again???

Postby champs0607 » Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:04 am

A few years back the vball and gbb programs switched "seasons" or whatever u may call it. anyway vball went from winter to fall and gbb from fall to winter. I've heard from many that they like the way it is now but others would rather have it the way it used to be. i don't have a strong opinion on all of this but i want to get others' opinions. should it stay or go?
"Don't give up....don't ever give up." Jimmy Valvano
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Re: Time for change....again???

Postby rep » Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:14 am

...and i quote from the girls' basketball tournament book that included a little history on girls' basketball in the state:

"Then in the 2002-03 came the change that reverberated through the state and was motivated by a nationwide Title IX mandate: the switch of girls' volleyball to the fall and girls' basketball to the winter."

i want it to be changed back to how it was. badly. and it will never change. thank you title ix for everything you have done. great idea in theory, horrible in practice. that might be too harsh of a statement...some of it was needed i suppose. but some of the things that have resulted from it have really made me scratch my head.
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Re: Time for change....again???

Postby BB11 » Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:23 am

rep wrote:...and i quote from the girls' basketball tournament book that included a little history on girls' basketball in the state:

"Then in the 2002-03 came the change that reverberated through the state and was motivated by a nationwide Title IX mandate: the switch of girls' volleyball to the fall and girls' basketball to the winter."

i want it to be changed back to how it was. badly. and it will never change. thank you title ix for everything you have done. great idea in theory, horrible in practice. that might be too harsh of a statement...some of it was needed i suppose. but some of the things that have resulted from it have really made me scratch my head.

A great example of why it needs to be changed back was this week's state Girls B tournament. Did anyone else think the crowds were less than steller? I'm guessing they might have pulled off 4,000 for championship game. Just a guess - Have no idea what actual number was. I remember going to the girls state B when it was in the fall, in Minot, and there were no seats available on the bottom level, and the upper levels had some people sitting there. It wasn't packed by any means - but they still would get 6 or 7 thousand for championship night. The whole reason for the change was to help the girls athletes, and it is working in the exact opposite respect.
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Re: Time for change....again???

Postby champs0607 » Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:57 pm

exactly i watched the championship game too and nobody was there. what is all the reasoning for this? is it becuz people don't want to go to state b boys and girls within 2 weeks? (or w/e the time between state)is it the location? or is it becuz of the transition from fall to winter?
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Re: Time for change....again???

Postby Hinsa » Sun Mar 02, 2008 3:19 pm

My opinion is that people get basketballed out when the boys and the girls are in the same season. Also, when the boys and girls play in the same season the difference in skill level is accentuated. What I mean is that when you watch a girls game followed by a boys game, or vice-versa, you see how much faster and vertically higher the boys game is. When the girls play in the fall that comparison is not there and the casual fan will have more of an interest in the girls game.

That is not a slam at girls basketball at all, just my interpretation of what happens to the casual fan when the boys and girls play at the same time.

So I think there is more interest in the girls game when it is not in a head-to-head season with the boys.

At the time the change was made, I remember a lot being written about ND volleyball players and coaches being upset that colleges were making recruiting decisions before the ND volleyball season had even begun. Some of the more high profile volleyball programs in ND wanted their season in the fall so their volleyball players could get exposure while recruiting decisions were being made. That's a valid concern. My contention would be that if colleges want the best athletes, they'll find them no matter when they play.
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Re: Time for change....again???

Postby vballfan06 » Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:09 am

I think you also need to take into account the sizes of the schools....even compared to 10 years ago.
I graduated from high school 9 years ago, and my high school went from an enrollment of around 180 down to about 90. You go back for ball games and hear things like: 'the students don't support it like they used to'---well, that's because the time period they remember---there were twice as many kids in the system.
With most of our smaller communities---the % of adults with children that have already graduated is pretty staggering. The average person that age tends to lose interest when they no longer have a child in the school system...especially when it isn't their high school team making the bid for the tournament. So the likelihood of them driving to the state tournament when their team isn't playing and they have no children in high school, just isn't very likely---'they'll just watch it on tv'. My parents took me to both the girls and boys state B pretty much every year as a kid, and I don't think they've been back since I graduated high school.
I also think that all people just have way more going on now, then they used to. Even in the smallest towns---there's dance and gymnastics and JO volleyball and on and on and on.
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Never will happen

Postby Mandan » Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:13 pm

The only real reason the seasons were switched was because of pending lawsuits in other states. They did not want to spend money fighting a lawsuit that they might lose (and since other states were losing, they assumed ND would as well). Michigan is the only state that held out with girls basketball in the fall, and I think they lost their lawsuit recently and have to switch. With all the states in the nation now having girls and boys basketball in the same season, there is no way that North Dakota will ever go back. Some people may request it and send it to the NDHSAA board, but that won't change anything.
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Re: Time for change....again???

Postby Mandan » Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:16 pm

Here is an older story from 2001 that gives some of that background of the lawsuits...

http://www.makeithappen.com/wis/readings/schedules.html
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