Declining Participation

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Re: Declining Participation

Postby hp fan » Sat Mar 01, 2008 9:45 pm

I haven't read the enitre converstaion so forgive me if I am being redundant.

The #1 purpose of athletics is to develop character and a work ethic. If you look at the stats, (no I don;t have then but I have heard them) those students that are active in athletics (FB/VB/XC then BB/WR then T&F/Baseball) get better grades than those that do not participate. I would rather have more well rounded kids than those that specialize.

Those special athltetes (Kleinsasser/Erstad) don;t come along every day. The more well rounded athlete you are the better off you (and your team) will be. Take a look at Dickinson Trinity's Basketball program. The Ernst, Smith, Glasser, Jaeger, etc. kids were obviously taught that being well rounded is better than being specialized. all great Football player or Track and Field Athletes. Looks like it turned otu pretty good for them "is it now 8 stright State Tourney Appearences".............and counting!!!

The problem is if you specialize as a bball player, you have to be so dedicated or you will be left beind. I have seen SO MANY kids say I am not playing football, I am a bball player. BBall season comes and they are weak, can't catch a ball, Can;t be physical inside, etc.

I will take a well rounded athlete over specialization ANY DAY!!!!!!!Sorry for the novel I just had to vent
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Re: Declining Participation

Postby captain_caveman » Sat Mar 01, 2008 10:05 pm

Probably the better way of saying it is that our kids lack the desire right now. They seem to be content just putting in the required time and that is it. It seems to be too much work to put extra time to develop their skills. I am just looking for a determined athlete rather than just a "happy to be here" athlete.
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Re: Declining Participation

Postby hp fan » Sat Mar 01, 2008 10:09 pm

captain_caveman wrote:Probably the better way of saying it is that our kids lack the desire right now. They seem to be content just putting in the required time and that is it. It seems to be too much work to put extra time to develop their skills. I am just looking for a determined athlete rather than just a "happy to be here" athlete.



Don't feel bad, It isn't just your school. Its the vast majority of schools in ND. I think that is why we see the same teams and programs have success year after year. Oh yeah gotta give credit to the coaches and communities that support thier athletes as well.

Its is just the way our culture is going. To be the best you have to work harder and harder to get there. The problem is very few of us are willing to put the time in. Why should they when they know that as they get older somebody else is going to take care of them..............Oh man this is starting to get politial!!!!!!!!! I gotta stop
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Re: Declining Participation

Postby baller01 » Sun Mar 02, 2008 2:36 pm

captain_caveman wrote:Probably the better way of saying it is that our kids lack the desire right now. They seem to be content just putting in the required time and that is it. It seems to be too much work to put extra time to develop their skills. I am just looking for a determined athlete rather than just a "happy to be here" athlete.

Exactly! So for example, why should we go to a 3-class basketball system. All a 3-class system would do is reward those kids and schools who don't deserve to be awarded. You ever notice how the teams that want 3-classes are the teams that aren't successful. It's because instead of working hard and getting better they wan't the easy way out. That easy way out is the 3-class system. For example, take a look at the HMB girls. Their enrollment for high school is 64 kids. They just took 4th in state, graduate one player, and could very easily be playing in the state title game next year. Why? Because they have a good coach that works with the girls all year long. They are constantly going to team camps, leagues, etc. to get better in the off-season. Do they use the excuse of "We only have 64 kids in our highschool?" No. If you want to be a good athlete and part of a winning team, get a bunch of your friends together, set a goal, and work to achieve it.
Winning isn't everything--but wanting to win is. -Vince Lombardi
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Re: Declining Participation

Postby tellmeaboutit » Sun Mar 02, 2008 4:31 pm

Declining Participation is happening because we have become a society of instant gratification. We want success now, we don't want to have to put in years of hard work or commitment to get it. Champions are not born, they are made through hard work and dedication. Unfortunately kids just don't have the patience to stick with it, especially when the outcome can't be guaranteed.
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Re: Declining Participation

Postby cubsfan » Sun Mar 02, 2008 8:01 pm

Declining participation is becoming a major problem in North Dakota Athletics. Kids nowadays just are not as committed as usual and the ones that participate do not put the in the time to get to that next level. I have seen numerous people who have all the talent in the world but just don't have that drive that you need to succeed to high school athletics. Another reason that participation is low is becuase kids are just not that competitive. Competitiveness is a great thing if it not taken over the top. I also think that due to a lack of competitiveness that the talent level has drastically decreased in North Dakota high school athletics.
The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather a lack of will.
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Re: Declining Participation

Postby hoopsfan21 » Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:19 pm

The participation in North Dakota schools has been steadily declining in our state for a while now and i think there are a couple of reasons for it. Like many have you said kids dont want to compete and if they arent winning or the star they dont play, mostly because mommy and daddy tell the kid the coach is an idiot and tells them not to play. Therefore, they encourage their kids to go into "club" sports. This is fine and dandy in larger schools, but in small schools "club" sports are killing high school sports. I have saw the affect that dance has had on girls basketball in these schools. teams can only get 10 out for basketball but have 15 on the dance team, because it is easier and there is little competition in it. Everyone gets to perform and not compete for a spot. It is becoming more and more common in small schools where these clubs are takign away from the high school sports. before too long these clubs are going to drown out the high school sports and the high school sports will turn into the half time entertainment for these clubs
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Re: Declining Participation

Postby ndhoopscoach » Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:46 pm

I agree that "club" sports are ruining a lot of high school sports. I think sports like dance in particular are hurting small schools. There are too many choices for kids in these small towns. I also think that kids are becoming too soft. A lot of kids now days don't want to "work" for anything, they want it handed to them. They want all the success, but want nothing to do with the work that is put into being successful. You are seeing an huge increase in sports like golf, volleyball, dance, and even bowling, where there is minimal physical exertion. I think that this is a terrible trend in our society. Kids would rather play X-box and Playstation instead of engage themselves in an activity that requires some physical work.
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Re: Declining Participation

Postby mplsfan » Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:35 pm

[quote="ndhoopscoach"] I think sports like dance in particular are hurting small schools. There are too many choices for kids in these small towns.

I'm not a big proponent of calling Dance a sport HOWEVER, I fail to see how "sports like dance are hurting small schools." If a kids thing is dance then they should have the opportunity to dance. Not every kid is cut out to be an athlete. It's a small town North Dakota like attitude that thinks every kid has to be on the basketball team in order to be seen as productive. I believe exactly the opposite, I don't think there are enough choices for kids in small towns. Kids don't come of the cookie cutter variety and they should have the chance to excel according to their talents and interests whether it be sports, dance, music, drama whatever. I've taught at a very small ND school that was basketball driven and there were good things about it. I now teach at a very large suburban Mpls. school that excels at athletics and everything else under the sun as well. Because of it's size this school can offer everything. Unfortunately small schools are unable to do that. However I thinks it's unfair to label kids as underachieving and lazy simply because they don't fit the cookie cutter mold that a very small school is able to offer where importance is place almost entirely on achivement in athletics. Afterall, we as a school community are here to serve the kids, they are not here to serve us.
Last edited by mplsfan on Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Declining Participation

Postby bbjay » Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:41 am

I JUST WANNA DANCE!
75% of the time..it works every time.
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Re: Declining Participation

Postby mplsfan » Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:47 am

Then more power to ya. Dance til you drop!!!
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Re: Declining Participation

Postby AC-DC » Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:20 am

Kids definetly have more options these days, (not just the cruising and drinking that we did back in the day). More power to them, not everyone is cut out to play basketball. In most schools, only 5 - 10 get to play anyway.

Club sports are not a problem, especially those outside of school. Things like club hockey and gymnastics need more parental involvement and commitment to operate and are better for it. Dumping the kids off at the school sponsored daycare programs is the easy option. There is nothing like a good hockey road trip (with 6 people and 3 sweaty hockey bags crammed into the mini-van) for some good quality family bonding.
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Re: Declining Participation

Postby scoobyx2 » Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:00 pm

I think one issue that hasn't been considered is that the home life for many kids these days are very different from the past. There are more kids who have to spend their time at 2 households during the week due to divorce. That doesn't make committing to a sport for several months very easy. Also, there is a greater need for many kids to get jobs to pay for necessities that parents in the past could just pay for, or they might be the caregiver for their younger siblings afterschool. There are kids who are simply too lazy, but many kids have to make decisions on whether or not to play on the support their parents give them. Also, many parents choose to have their kids compete competitively at a very young age, and then many kids that can't be involved at that age feel that they are "weeded out" before they are even in 6th grade.
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Re: Declining Participation

Postby tellmeaboutit » Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:30 pm

scoobyx2 wrote:I think one issue that hasn't been considered is that the home life for many kids these days are very different from the past. There are more kids who have to spend their time at 2 households during the week due to divorce. That doesn't make committing to a sport for several months very easy. Also, there is a greater need for many kids to get jobs to pay for necessities that parents in the past could just pay for, or they might be the caregiver for their younger siblings afterschool. There are kids who are simply too lazy, but many kids have to make decisions on whether or not to play on the support their parents give them. Also, many parents choose to have their kids compete competitively at a very young age, and then many kids that can't be involved at that age feel that they are "weeded out" before they are even in 6th grade.

I'm a "child of divorce" and find that excuse to be deplorable. That right there is your reason for declining participation. We make excuse after excuse for kids these days, bailing them out of every situation that calls for commitment to someone other than themselves. You can't bail a kid out of practice, you can't make a coach play your kid, and you can't influence the officiating to make everything "good" for your kid. What I'm saying is, sports isn't a guaranteed success for kids, therefore why even try.
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Re: Declining Participation

Postby riders » Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:09 am

captain_caveman wrote:I don't think my statement about our kids not specializing came out right. I was just commenting on the kids have more opportunities and activities point. Our kids, probably more so our girls, all play BB, all play VB/FB, all run track, and all play baseball/softball along with holding jobs and going on other school and summer activity trips. I understand that most small schools are in this situation. The percentage of kids that do this and actually excell in everthing is probably very slim. I don't think all kids should just pick one sport and forget the rest, I am just saying our school never develops a stud that can lead our teams. They play one sports season and move along to the next and it all runs together. We have had some good enough athletes but haven't developed an stud BB player in almost 10 years. Participation is not an issue, I am all for that.

If all ND high school athletes had the talent and desire as Kleinsasser and Erstad life would be different in the sports world. To compare the average athlete to these guys is not realistic. They are the exception.


i completely disagree with the whole specialization idea. im a 3sport player and i also have a job and a 3.5GPA. its been proven that players benefit from playing other sports, especially if that other sport is track. playing football as a LB can help your baseball swing because tackling is all in your hips as is most of your swing.track is self-explanatory, helping with speed, agility, and stamina. even though your school may not have have the same guy as a stand-out for every sport he plays, that individual is only making himself a more all-around athlete. zac elgie, cole frenzel, and both qvales are great examples of a players that have desire and talent to excell in their sports..they must be exceptions to the post quoted...

this is a link to an article proving my point
http://www.newsday.com/sports/highschoo ... 5306.story
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