Coaching Changes

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Postby ClassBEast » Fri Apr 13, 2007 3:21 am

[font=arial]Starr resigns as Kindred coach[/font]

[font=arial]By Eric Peterson and Kerry Collins, The Forum
Published Friday, April 13, 2007
[/font]

[font=arial]Waylan Starr stepped down from his duties as Kindred head girls basketball coach earlier this week.[/font]

[font=arial]Starr said he wasn’t forced out, but felt he didn’t have the support from a majority of parents in the program.[/font]

[font=arial][size=17]“The parents and I weren’t on the same page and that’s the best way to say it,â€Â
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Postby rep » Fri Apr 13, 2007 9:14 am

at some point parents are going to learn what their whining and complaining actually accomplishes when teams no longer have anyone that wants to coach them.
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Postby Biff » Fri Apr 13, 2007 10:15 am

Starr did a great job at Kindred.  How can people complain when he has an 85% winning percentage.  Give him credit for being a better person than those parents.
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Postby coachk » Fri Apr 13, 2007 10:53 am

I have known coach Starr for a few years and very sad to see him leave but I know exactly what he is going through as I have the same problem where I coach as well and it has not changed in the 27 years I have been coaching and I don't expect it to change. Just do the best I can and play the players that deserve it by the work they put in. Chalk another one up to those great parent who have the expertise and knowledge to make their kids pros. Hope their children come to their senses and figure it out. We will miss your presence on the floor Coach Starr you did the right things with your team and it paid off.
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Postby bballfan1 » Fri Apr 13, 2007 11:59 am

from what i hear the kids (even the starters) didn't really like him as a coach either which may be a reflection of their parents attitudes and i heard that from a player but i'm not saying they were right or wrong in their feelings
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Postby Biff » Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:04 pm

When a parent is sitting there telling a kid that they are getting screwed because they don't start or because they deserve more touches, the kids start believing it.  Coach Starr was committed to those kids and the program.  To bad that some of the parents AND players must not be.
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Postby homer » Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:18 pm

I think the administration has to be part to blame for some of these coaching changes they have to stand behind their coaches and their program. they were hired to run the program their way and not by all the different beliefs of the parents until the coach does something unethical or verbally abuses a player no parent has the right to say a coach has to go. they are not at every practice or bus ride to see how thier little johnny is interacting with the others.the  athletic dir. and super. and board has to stand up to these people and say this the way it is it is hard enough to find good coaches and this is why.  
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Postby cdub1 » Fri Apr 13, 2007 2:22 pm

i wish i could coach basketball and everytime i had a parent complain they would be at the next practice with a whistle in their mouth ready to see what it is like to be a coach maybe after they realize what it is like they will shut up
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id rather die like a man than live like a coward becuz a coward dies a thousand deaths
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Postby bballfan1 » Sat Apr 14, 2007 3:24 am

I not saying that it is like this with the kindred case, but there are also times when you get a bad coach who is not abusive and kids and their parents have a right to want better.  Usually though parents overstep their bounds but you rarely hear about the starters' parents complaining like you did at kindred
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Postby ClassBEast » Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:59 pm

[font=arial]Here's Mike McFeely's entertaining view on the topic:
[/font]

[font=arial]Coaches fall victim to parents
[/font][url=mailto:mmcfeely@forumcomm.com][font=arial]Mike McFeely[/font][/url][font=arial][size=17], The Forum

Published Sunday, April 15, 2007

HELP WANTED: High school coach. Candidates must have four-year college degree, at least two years of coaching experience at the high school level, skin as thick as tree bark, willingness to be stabbed in the back by the meddling parents of the players you coach and the tranquil restraint of Gandhi to not punch those same parents in the beak when they accuse you of a) not playing their kid enough, b) not playing their kid properly or c) not winning every game during the length of their kid’s career. Success is not a guarantee of job security. Pay is equal to $2.17 an hour, less if you take into account time spent talking to dads who think their kid would be getting college scholarship offers by now if you weren’t such an idiot. Good opportunity for a young coach not yet embittered by years of know-it-all parents. Applications will be taken until May 1, or until we find somebody dumb enough to take the position.

Would you answer that ad? Would anybody answer that ad? Perhaps the better the question is why would anybody answer it?

It is that time of the year when, after a long and cold winter of discontent among overzealous dads and moms, high school coaches’ heads are rolling. Or the coaches are sticking their own necks in the guillotine, tired of dealing with shenanigans.

Last week, longtime Wahpeton boys basketball coach John Del Val was ousted by the school board after a group of parents grumbled. In Kindred, girls basketball coach Waylan Starr resigned because he sensed he didn’t have the support of parents. There are rumblings in other towns – including one that begins with “Mâ€Â
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Postby rep » Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:22 pm

[quote="ClassBEast"][font=arial]Here's Mike McFeely's entertaining view on the topic:
[/font]

[font=arial]Coaches fall victim to parents
[/font][url=mailto:mmcfeely@forumcomm.com][font=arial]Mike McFeely[/font][/url][font=arial][size=17], The Forum

Published Sunday, April 15, 2007

HELP WANTED: High school coach. Candidates must have four-year college degree, at least two years of coaching experience at the high school level, skin as thick as tree bark, willingness to be stabbed in the back by the meddling parents of the players you coach and the tranquil restraint of Gandhi to not punch those same parents in the beak when they accuse you of a) not playing their kid enough, b) not playing their kid properly or c) not winning every game during the length of their kid’s career. Success is not a guarantee of job security. Pay is equal to $2.17 an hour, less if you take into account time spent talking to dads who think their kid would be getting college scholarship offers by now if you weren’t such an idiot. Good opportunity for a young coach not yet embittered by years of know-it-all parents. Applications will be taken until May 1, or until we find somebody dumb enough to take the position.

Would you answer that ad? Would anybody answer that ad? Perhaps the better the question is why would anybody answer it?

It is that time of the year when, after a long and cold winter of discontent among overzealous dads and moms, high school coaches’ heads are rolling. Or the coaches are sticking their own necks in the guillotine, tired of dealing with shenanigans.

Last week, longtime Wahpeton boys basketball coach John Del Val was ousted by the school board after a group of parents grumbled. In Kindred, girls basketball coach Waylan Starr resigned because he sensed he didn’t have the support of parents. There are rumblings in other towns – including one that begins with “Mâ€Â
rep
 

Postby luvmy3gbb1wr » Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:07 am

bballfan1 wrote:I not saying that it is like this with the kindred case, but there are also times when you get a bad coach who is not abusive and kids and their parents have a right to want better.  Usually though parents overstep their bounds but you rarely hear about the starters' parents complaining like you did at kindred

I'm pretty sure it isn't, Starr wasn't abusive or bad.....according to sources over at Kindred......Starr was being submarined just about all year by a set of parents who were angry that he wasn't starting their other daughter.......they had a petition circulating for several months to get rid of him.....threatened to take their daughters to South, etc.......one parent told me Starr tendered his resignation and told the AD "don't ever ask me to coach anything in this school district again"........lots of fighting throughout the year and tourneys......and that's only some of the comments coming from the area......if even half of the stuff is true, I don't blame him a bit.  sad, sad, sad, that an excellent young coach had to deal with that.
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Postby homer » Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:24 am

i know exactly who they are talking about and just because both mom and dad played college ball that makes them a coach i guess they arent at every practice seeing how things are going you are right sad sad and im not sure they would have gotten their way at south should have called their bluff
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Postby gophers18 » Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:39 am

A few years Richland went through it also with parent's and lost a great coach in Brieland. I do know coaches also leave because of lack of support from the AD's and administration. They tend to side alot with the parent's because it is easier to get rid of a great coach than to have the hassle of parent's calling all the time even when the AD and administration can find nothing wrong with the way the coach is doing their job. Brieland is now coaching else where and very successful.
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Postby The Schwab » Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:21 pm

luvmy3gbb1wr wrote:
bballfan1 wrote:I not saying that it is like this with the kindred case, but there are also times when you get a bad coach who is not abusive and kids and their parents have a right to want better.  Usually though parents overstep their bounds but you rarely hear about the starters' parents complaining like you did at kindred

I'm pretty sure it isn't, Starr wasn't abusive or bad.....according to sources over at Kindred......Starr was being submarined just about all year by a set of parents who were angry that he wasn't starting their other daughter.......they had a petition circulating for several months to get rid of him.....threatened to take their daughters to South, etc.......one parent told me Starr tendered his resignation and told the AD "don't ever ask me to coach anything in this school district again"........lots of fighting throughout the year and tourneys......and that's only some of the comments coming from the area......if even half of the stuff is true, I don't blame him a bit.  sad, sad, sad, that an excellent young coach had to deal with that.
well i hope your sources are right about who it was...because you pretty much nailed down who they were.
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Postby ndfbfan » Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:22 pm

Here's another article. This seems to be a very hot topic right now.

Are parents too pushy with coaches?
class=bylineBy ERIC PETERSON
The Associated Press

class=bodytextFARGO - When John Del Val was fired as head boys basketball coach at Wahpeton this month, Fargo North boys coach Dan Shultis took notice.

"It's not safe," Shultis said. "In the end, you need support. It doesn't give you a good feeling inside."

A group of parents wasn't satisfied with Del Val, even though he had a career winning record in 13 seasons. That unrest led the Wahpeton School Board to strip coaching from Del Val's contract.

That week, Waylan Starr resigned as girls basketball coach at Kindred after two successful seasons.













 
class=bodytext"The parents and I weren't on the same page," he said.

Are pushy parents becoming more prevalent than in years past, causing a higher rate of coaching attrition in prep basketball? Or is it mere coincidence those two situations were bunched in the same week?

"Anybody who is going to be a coach is going to run into some issues," Shultis said. "It just depends on how you handle it."

Do parents play too big of a role in influencing high school coaching decisions?

Opinions vary, but most area coaches and athletic directors agree that increased participation in traveling teams and offseason workout programs have raised the stakes.

"Parents are putting all their eggs in one basket and, when they do that and they don't get what they want to see, they feel like it's their right to speak out," said May-Port-CG athletic director and boys basketball coach Dave Nelson.

Parental unrest with coaches has existed for generations.

Tom Erdmann was a standout basketball player at Minot Ryan before he graduated from the school in 1969.

"I would ride home with a mother of another player and she was upset her son wasn't playing," said Erdmann, who had two sons play at North.

Erdmann doesn't think the current atmosphere is coach-friendly. When he played in high school, fewer parents attended games, thus less scrutiny.

Today, he thinks parents follow their kids more closely and invest more time into following their athletic careers.

"I can't imagine anyone wanting to be a head coach with the things that some parents do," he said.

Tom's sons Eric, a 2006 graduate, and Jon (2002), See Parents, Page 5D

played on North Dakota Class A state championship teams at North. Playing time wasn't an issue in either case. Eric and Jon played significant roles for the Spartans. Eric was a 2006 Mr. Basketball finalist and now plays at the University of Maryk.

Tom said he and his wife, Renae, kept criticisms they had about the program between themselves.

"If we are going to complain, we are going to complain to each other, but not in public," Tom said.

Longtime Minot High boys coach Gene Manson thinks the methods parents use have changed. He feels parents are more likely to approach the school board before they go to the head coach.

In the past, parents would normally talk with the coach first, Manson said.

However, Manson isn't sure the situations at Wahpeton and Kindred signal a growing trend.

"You go in cycles and that is never going to change," said Manson, who has coached for 36 seasons. "And it really affects a team because it's funny how the kids know right away."

In most cases, winning seems to create harmony within a program. But success is not always the perfect elixir.

Starr won 85 percent of his games (47-8) in two seasons at Kindred and led the Vikings to the Class B state tournament both years.

Del Val had a 161-132 record in his 13 years with the Huskies, including four trips to the Class A state tournament.

"It was disturbing because, when you look at those two coaches, they had a lot of success," Fargo South head girls basketball coach Craig Flaagan said.

But Wahpeton went 9-12 last season, and Del Val thinks he would still have his job if the Huskies had made the state tournament.

Del Val said he has received 40 supportive e-mails from coaches, ex-players and people in the community since his dismissal.

"He is an excellent coach and his teams are always well-prepared," Manson said of Del Val. "You wonder what people are looking at. There is no question what happened to John was undeserving.

"To me it's a sad state of affairs because we are losing people in coaching who care about kids."

Messages left with several Wahpeton boys basketball parents were not returned.

"It is unfortunate the issues weren't discussed with the coaching staff, parents and activities director," Wahpeton parent Jim Albrecht recently told the Wahpeton Daily News. "It came to the school board without that discussion."

While the prep basketball season lasts less than four months, the sport has become a year-round vocation for some.

"In the past, they didn't specialize to the point where the program has become their whole life," said Fargo Public Schools activities director Ed Lockwood, who was a high school coach for 18 years. "If you look at a basketball player who is really specialized, they spend 12 to 14 weeks with the school team and the rest of the year with a parent or a specialized coach."

Lockwood said he sees more kids playing on traveling teams. And when parents see their kids do well with those out-of-season teams, they expect that success and playing time to continue during the high school season.

Some athletes also do sports-specific training out of season - programs that increase strength and quickness with parents typically footing the bill.

"These parents are putting a ton of money into it," said South boys head coach Mike Hendrickson.

"I think with more and more traveling teams, parents feel they have more ownership," Flaagan said.

"The No. 1 priority for a high school coach is not to develop kids to play college basketball," Nelson said. "Too many people are looking at getting their kid a scholarship or individual recognition instead of having the team goal in mind."

The Fargo Public Schools has an activities handbook that outlines parameters for parent-coach communication.

Parents are not supposed to discuss with coaches playing time, team strategy, play calling and other student-athletes, according to the handbook.

Parents and athletes are required to attend co-curricular meetings, which are set up before fall, winter and spring seasons. They sign a co-curricular card that says they will follow guidelines in the handbook.

Lisbon athletic director Joe Howell said his school has similar rules. If a parent has an issue, they're first supposed to talk with that coach before going to the athletic director, principal and school board in that order.

"In most cases, Steps 1 and 2 are bypassed," Howell said. "That is where the problem lies. Every coach should have to be a parent first and every parent should have to be a coach first."

Howell believes Lisbon is a good community for coaches because most parents are supportive. But he said coaches and administrators still get the occasional anonymous letter or late-night call.

"It needs to be an enjoyable experience for the players, it needs to be an enjoyable experience for the parents and it needs to be an enjoyable experience for the coaches," Nelson said. "When it works like that, it's a win-win situation for everybody."
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