North Dakota Preps

http://www.in-forum.com/Sports/articles/152277

[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif] N.D. ponders another level
Eric Peterson
The Forum - 01/08/2007[/font] [font=Times New Roman, Times, serif][size=17] Two-class basketball in North Dakota could be on the verge of extinction. “My personal opinion is in the near future we will have a three-class system,â€Â

if it was a vote. I'd vote NO NO NO. I love the Hi-Liner whiner in there. Good heavens. It's not purely about numbers. If that was the case Napoleon wouldnt be at the Rotary tourney now would they?

How's that Kool Aide taste Mr. Cruchet?

If North Dakota went to a 3 class system, it would probably be the saddest day in ND sports. I don't argue against having 4 classes in football because football is a game of numbers. You need kids out for football. All it takes in basketball is maybe 6 or 7 kids, and a good coach, and you have a shot to win a state title. If you had 3,000 kids to choose from you would have better odds on finding good players, but that's not to say you can't find the same amount of good players in fewer numbers. I don't feel schools should be blaming the system on them losing. It is the players and coaching staffs job to win, not the system to change their ways to make it easier for them. I don't know exactly how long ND has had the 3 class system but I know its been for awhile, and I don't see why in the last couple years or so its becoming a problem. I find it funny how Valley City is complaing there enrollment is so low, and how "the deck is stacked against them" when they have produced maybe the greatest player to ever come out of ND in Jeff Boschee. That goes to show that you can have 3,000 kids to choose from or 500, and it doesn't matter.

if we go to a 3 class basketball system i will seriously move. If you look at other states, they have classes like 13A gold and 3BA southwest, and a whole bunch of other stupid divisions. All that does is make it easier to win state and really waters down the whole experience.

ya a 3rd class in basketball wuld be like nine man football: worthless. no body wuld care about it and the "state champ" wuldnt be anything to be proud of.

3 class system would ruin what is known as class B basketball. Competing against 100 other teams for a chance to win state, there is nothing like it.

Ping Pong wrote:ya a 3rd class in basketball wuld be like nine man football: worthless. no body wuld care about it and the "state champ" wuldnt be anything to be proud of.

personally i saw the third class of basketball to be the basketball equal to class aa for football. a bunch of class b schools that are off on their own and there is such a small number that you end up with a feeling of the same teams there year in and year out and if you don't care about those teams, you don't care about the tournament/championship.

with the 9-man football, there are more schools in that than any other division, so i tend to give it more respect than the other divisions. of course, i also never played 9-man, so i really don't understand how anyone could play with that wide open with a playing field, but that is different all together.

in the end, i think it's class aa that basically a worthless class and should be slapped together with the a class, you think it is 9-man that is worthless...to each his own ping pong

dont give much credit to anyone who cant spell i hope to heck you were kidding about the nine man thing

Ping Pong wrote:ya a 3rd class in basketball wuld be like nine man football: worthless. no body wuld care about it and the "state champ" wuldnt be anything to be proud of.

9-man football is the biggest show in North Dakota.

The only thing worthless is the spelling classes you took.

 

Rep, class "AA" football is no different then class "A" basketball or "AAA" triple football.  The same teams tend to be there year after year.  The answer to that would be making it a final four....

scruffy wrote:Rep, class "AA" football is no different then class "A" basketball or "AAA" triple football. 

which explains why i have little to no interest in either

When is the meeting for the new class system....i herd something about it on the radio this moring but i didnt cetch it all

Does anybody have the total number of current Class B schools?

I'm not a big fan of 3 classes, but when I think of VC with less than 400 in top 4 grades, and Fargo South with over 2100, it does make me wonder regarding a "mid" class. My biggest concern would be leaving enough in Class B to not lose how special it is.

There have been some posts regarding coaching quality and players, etc. I agree that is part of it. VC is in a tough spot regardless of their players and coaches "quality". If VC was to drop into B, there would certainly be some squawking.

It will be interesting to see what happens.

ok u r all 2 dumb to have a good comback so u bash my spelling. good one. nine man is bad just a dmit it i have been to some games. its not fun at all.

ok just cuz ur from a 9 man town. answer me this. how many players does it take to play football in tha nfl, ncaa, cfl, and europian football. good luck playing football later in ur carrer. not saying they arnt as good but its difficult.

Proposing a three class system in theory is not a bad idea, even out the playing field for the class B schools that seem to get close but never get to state. However I am stronly opposed to a three class system because of its down falls and the tradition that is lost in a "new" class.

One of the downfalls of the system is the mix and match class that would be established. Like mentioned before, it would have the similar composition to the AA football class. However, after talking with an AD about the proposal I learned that in the Beulah proposal all of the class B private schools would be moved to the new class. Yes that would include Dickinson Trinity, but it would also include Williston Trinity Christian. Trying to compare Valley City to Fargo South is tough, but Valley City has always had a numbers disadvantage to Fargo South, now how about WTC against Valley City? Just unacceptable.

Another downfall of the system is the loss of tradition of the "B". The B is the baby of North Dakota. There are things in North Dakota that people don't mess with, construction season, home cooking, and the B. A third system would completely degrade the majesty of the B. It would be a success in getting different teams qualified for it, but there would be a missing story. Take for instance Epping in the mid-70s. The school closed shortly after the tournament and the school of maybe 25 students (9-12) came up one win short of dethroning the Hillsboro Borros. The same type of story will develop when Dickinson Trinity is upset in their Regional tournament, a David v. Goliath comparison. These kind of stories don't come around every year, but when they do the B becomes even more popular. A three class system would shatter this tradition.

The Beulah proposal comes at an interesting time. Beulah just moved back down to class B and in their first year they are proposing a third system...hm... I am just looking at the facts and the irony with their timing, but it is interesting to note that only one team goes to state out of their region (which includes Dix Trinity). However, it would make sense that in a class with 24 teams, more than one team per region would qualify for the tournament, because it would make most sense to have 4 regions of 6 teams or 2 of 12...either way, multiple teams would qualify.

Sorry that this got lengthy, but I just feel that North Dakota basketball is a fragile commodity. The proposed system ultimately does not change the problem that currently exists. If the system isn't flawless at it inception the ND public will not support the system and the proposal is far from flawless.

SCC wrote:I am very against a three-class system, but if it ends up that way, call the classes A, B, C or 1A, 2A, 3A.

I think a partial solution, not sure if it has ever been brought up , but want to know what others think of this. Why not have the top 12 schools, be Class AA and have a tourney at the end of the yr and the top 4 play in the Big Class tourney in South Dakota, have it be the Dakota state tournament, i assume South Dakota has to be in somewhat the same dilemma, then rotate the tourney between North and South Dakota ever yr or every 2 yrs, is this even a remote possible thing to have happen? It would make making the big school state tourney more of a challenge, and not a right of passage for some schools. I think you would create a big rivalry and border battles between the states and i think that would be good. Then you could have the next size schools like 32 to 40 be the next class and the rest class B. Just my thought.

Ping Pong wrote:ok just cuz ur from a 9 man town. answer me this. how many players does it take to play football in tha nfl, ncaa, cfl, and europian football. good luck playing football later in ur carrer. not saying they arnt as good but its difficult.

i do believe the CFL plays with 12 players. Am i right ?

Intersting Idea Magic. I think that there is a possible flaw in that system though, the legality of such a tournament in the eyes of the National Federation of High Schools. Plus there would be no state champion for the top 12 teams would there?

ok just cuz ur from a 9 man town. answer me this. how many players does it take to play football in tha nfl, ncaa, cfl, and europian football. good luck playing football later in ur carrer. not saying they arnt as good but its difficult.

Actually, having played 9 man football before and 11 man, I have to say 11 man is more fun in my opinion. It is way more challenging. In 9 man if you have a fast, explosive back, you just have to run sweeps to get him on the outside. 11 man is more patience, waiting for your blocks to develope. Pong's comment about playing football later in your career, if you played 9 man in high school, is incorrect. I happen to know a perfect example. Chad Greenway, the Vikings #1 draft pick in last years draft played 8-man footaball, yes I said 8-man football, in high school. Greenway played his high school football at Mt. Vernon, South Dakota, before going to Iowa.

I hope that the people with power are wise enough to see that a three class basketball system is ridiculous.  I can't see any scenario where having three classes would actually benefit ND basketball.  Maybe volleyball would be better because there seems to be a handful of power programs in Class B, and a third class would let more teams in but who really cares.  Three classes would hurt attendance at tournaments and create apathy from the fans (Did adding a 31st bowl game make college football any more exciting?).  It would be like the football system...a bunch of teams that would be highly competitive in Class B mixed with a bunch of small crybaby Class A schools in the middle class.  You'd end up with one champ each year that would look weak compared to the others.  I think some people are way too quick to fix "problems" that aren't really there.  A small, bad basketball school in Class B will probably still be a small, bad basketball school in the bottom of a three class system.  I don't like the four class system in football and would absolutely hate a three class system in basketball.  Crowning more champions isn't the solution. 

On a side note, I played 11 man football but think that 9 man football is a lot of fun to watch.  Two good offenses can put on quite a show when you eliminate those extra pesky defensive backs.  Also on the topic of change,  can we scrap sectional play and state tournaments in small towns in Legion baseball.  I liked the old system in that too.

I beleive that two years before Beulah moved to Class A we (Beulah) proposed a similar plan at that time, which was voted down. Not really sure why the AD is proposing this plan when he comments about the time our athletes miss from the classroom due to travel and then we look ath this new plan and traveling all over the State, like when we were Class A.

football is still football no rule changes you still run the ball catch the ball kick the ball block and tackle touchdowns are still 6 and the fans still flock to games on friday night there is just a little more room to move in nine man just two less per side i think alot of players have moved on to play elswhere i dont think there is too many coaches that will discriminate against 9 vs 11

If they go with the Hazen/Beulah plan with the larger upper and middle divisions, then it would be like South Dakota with 6 state tournaments to have in the spring.  You can't have those on six different weekend and broadcast all of them, so then you have to start rotating the broadcasts and only get on TV once every three years.  So yes, unless they combine the boys/girls tournaments in all classes like current class A, they would be ruined.

If they go with the Class A proposal of 12 and 12 in the upper and middle divisions, things wouldn't have to change very much.  It doesn't make sense for 8 teams to get to state when there are only 12 teams, so let only 4 teams from each class go to the state tournament and combine the upper and middle classes into one weekend at one location.  This makes 16 teams between boys and girls in the two classes, same as the current combined class A.  So they could still have the combined tournament on one weekend like now, except you'd have 4 championship games. Class B boys and girls could still have their own weekends with class B boys as the finale.

Its just a numbers game!! For instance Belcourt's football has to move up to AAA in football because of there enrollment.  Their closest game is Minot and they really have no chance of competing at that level.  They are in the same boat as Beulah was, they barely meet the enrollment to be class A and have to travel atleast 2 hours to their closest away game.  What sense does that make?  And why AAA for their football team since the town is building 2 different high schools now, they are both probaly going to be class B in a couple of years.