NDSU-UND Football Rivalry

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Postby Ming01 » Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:35 pm

Anybody see them playing within the next two seasons?  I really would like to see them play as early as next season.  One thing that helps is that Minnesota doesn't want to play NDSU anymore and UND asked NDSU to play last season on the same date as the Gopher game, but NDSU decided to play MN.  In reality I think they'll play again in 2009.
Last edited by Ming01 on Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Stromer » Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:29 am

Ming01 wrote:Anybody see them playing within the next two seasons?  I really would like to see them play as early as next season.  One thing that helps is that Minnesota doesn't want to play NDSU anymore and UND asked NDSU to play last season on the same date as the Gopher game, but NDSU decided to play MN.  In reality I think they'll play again in 2009.


It won't be until 2010 at the earliest.  I just saw an article about this and the NDSU AD said it might be possible to play UND in 2010 depending on what the conference schedule looks like.  They won't play in 2009 because NDSU will be eligible for the playoffs and UND will not be a counter because it takes a couple of years to get all of the programs up to the academic standards and teams up to the scholly level.  NDSU will only play UND after they become a counter so I will say 2011. 

It will happen even if some NDSU and UND fans still hate the other program.  Many rational people can see that this game needs to start again soon.
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Postby NDSportsFan » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:05 pm

When UND becomes a counter they will charge over $30 a ticket and still sell out the stadiums months in advance.   Factor into that T-shirt sales and other associated revenue potential.  
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Postby tcbison » Tue Sep 18, 2007 6:06 am

It will happen again but NDSU is scheduled out for a couple of years now. I was disappointed that it ended especially the way it did. I think the hatred between the schools got worse because the games were not played. Oh well, UND will have a good chance at the DII championship this year and next year NDSU should have a good chance to make the FCS playoffs.
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Postby the low down » Fri Sep 21, 2007 1:47 pm

It needs to be played again obviously for the fans of ND football.  People are right, the animosity (spelling?) between the two school had gotten worse since they've ended play.  We are speaking about two great teams with two great traditions within the borders of North Dakota.  It is a darn shame that we cannot see them play.

On the business side of things, this game especially needs to be played and both programs will benefit from it more than any game they are playing now. When the two teams played, there were sponsorship deals and Statewide TV in place. While the TV is still in place, you have half the audience watching.  Let's consider fans in ND 50/50 on being a Sioux or a Bison.  Ratings for an October Saturday night game during primetime would be through the roof!! By not playing this game, you are eliminating a good 50% of college football fans from your viewing audience.
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Postby Ming01 » Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:13 pm

the low down wrote:It needs to be played again obviously for the fans of ND football.  People are right, the animosity (spelling?) between the two school had gotten worse since they've ended play.  We are speaking about two great teams with two great traditions within the borders of North Dakota.  It is a darn shame that we cannot see them play.

On the business side of things, this game especially needs to be played and both programs will benefit from it more than any game they are playing now. When the two teams played, there were sponsorship deals and Statewide TV in place. While the TV is still in place, you have half the audience watching.  Let's consider fans in ND 50/50 on being a Sioux or a Bison.  Ratings for an October Saturday night game during primetime would be through the roof!! By not playing this game, you are eliminating a good 50% of college football fans from your viewing audience.

I disagree with you. NDSU has had three straight sellouts, drawing more than any NDSU-UND game has ever done. The Bisons first 2 games were on tv -  (FSN for SFA game) and so will the next Bison home game. There would be no increased exposure. 

It wouldn't really help NDSU that much financially. NDSU's selling more tickets, more ads, sponsorships, than ever before because of D-1AA. Fundrasing for the team has never been higher. They also have teammaker memberships, that brings in a ton of money. Bison football doesn't need any help raising money or exposure from an NDSU-UND game, I have to admit.
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Postby Stromer » Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:37 pm

Ming01 wrote:
the low down wrote:It needs to be played again obviously for the fans of ND football.  People are right, the animosity (spelling?) between the two school had gotten worse since they've ended play.  We are speaking about two great teams with two great traditions within the borders of North Dakota.  It is a darn shame that we cannot see them play.

On the business side of things, this game especially needs to be played and both programs will benefit from it more than any game they are playing now. When the two teams played, there were sponsorship deals and Statewide TV in place. While the TV is still in place, you have half the audience watching.  Let's consider fans in ND 50/50 on being a Sioux or a Bison.  Ratings for an October Saturday night game during primetime would be through the roof!! By not playing this game, you are eliminating a good 50% of college football fans from your viewing audience.

I disagree with you. NDSU has had three straight sellouts, drawing more than any NDSU-UND game has ever done. The Bisons first 2 games were on tv -  (FSN for SFA game) and so will the next Bison home game. There would be no increased exposure. 

It wouldn't really help NDSU that much financially. NDSU's selling more tickets, more ads, sponsorships, than ever before because of D-1AA. Fundrasing for the team has never been higher. They also have teammaker memberships, that brings in a ton of money. Bison football doesn't need any help raising money or exposure from an NDSU-UND game, I have to admit.

Very true.  NDSU does not need to play UND.  However, the state deserves this matchup and both fan bases, despite what they might say, need it to get back into reality.  We can only hope the the people running NDSU aren't total jerks like the UND administration were.
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Postby Ming01 » Fri Sep 21, 2007 8:15 pm

I wasn't saying I don't want it back, I do hope the rivalry comes back someday, but wait until UND finishes their 5 year transition.
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Postby tcbison » Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:33 am

I want to get people's opinion on this scenario. Like I said before I was really disappointed when the rivalry ended. It seems like the argument people use to get the rivarly going again is because it is good for the state and fans.

I have heard that NDSU is in discussion with Wisconsin for a football game in 2008 and Ohio State in 2010. These games are not official yet but it begs the question. Would it be better for NDSU and the fans of the state of North Dakota to play these games instead of playing UND? Think of it, if NDSU would pull an upset in one of these games like App State did to Michigan earlier in the year. That would be huge for North Dakota. I would think that the state and fans would benefit from these games probably more than a NDSU/UND game. Just my opinion but I would like to get other opinions.

 

 

 
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Postby Ming01 » Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:56 pm

tcbison wrote:I want to get people's opinion on this scenario. Like I said before I was really disappointed when the rivalry ended. It seems like the argument people use to get the rivarly going again is because it is good for the state and fans.

I have heard that NDSU is in discussion with Wisconsin for a football game in 2008 and Ohio State in 2010. These games are not official yet but it begs the question. Would it be better for NDSU and the fans of the state of North Dakota to play these games instead of playing UND? Think of it, if NDSU would pull an upset in one of these games like App State did to Michigan earlier in the year. That would be huge for North Dakota. I would think that the state and fans would benefit from these games probably more than a NDSU/UND game. Just my opinion but I would like to get other opinions. 


I agree, well they're going to get payed from the 1-A schools anyways, plus if you win you get more national exposure.  They would get payed prolly about $500, 000 from Wisconsin and about $800,000 from Ohio St. NDSU has nothing to lose when playing these big teams especially BCS Teams, and it wouldn't make a huge difference in the polls/playoffs anyways if you lose, but if you play UND it's pretty much lose/lose, they would be expected to beat them when they play again. It could be the difference between making and missing the playoffs.
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Postby Mandan » Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:29 am

the low down wrote:It needs to be played again obviously for the fans of ND football.  People are right, the animosity (spelling?) between the two school had gotten worse since they've ended play.  We are speaking about two great teams with two great traditions within the borders of North Dakota.  It is a darn shame that we cannot see them play.

On the business side of things, this game especially needs to be played and both programs will benefit from it more than any game they are playing now. When the two teams played, there were sponsorship deals and Statewide TV in place. While the TV is still in place, you have half the audience watching.  Let's consider fans in ND 50/50 on being a Sioux or a Bison.  Ratings for an October Saturday night game during primetime would be through the roof!! By not playing this game, you are eliminating a good 50% of college football fans from your viewing audience.

I think 50/50 is kind of high.  There's a lot of us in this state that went to Dickinson/Minot/Jamestown/Mary/Valley City/Mayville or even out of state schools.  We have no emotional attachment or reason to cheer for only one.   If a kid from my high school goes to NDSU/UND, I might follow them more closely, but I will still cheer for both of them.
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Postby Roughrider » Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:23 am

i really hope they start playing again, because in the state of North Dakota your either a bison fan or a sioux fan and the football game was huge. the nickel trophey needs to be brought back
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Postby flatlander » Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:20 am

The potential negatives of scheduling UND outweigh the positives right now and it'll be that way until something funadmental changes in the culture surrounding UND.

When NDSU schedules, say, Minnesota or Wisconsin, the potential positives are enormous. The local press gushes about NDSU's student-athletes, fans, and coaches. They marvel that a school that they used to consider small can bring so many fans to the game and make so much noise. When NDSU wins or even plays well, it's huge news around the country.

When NDSU schedules UND the potential negatives are very dire indeed. Who needs a couple AP stories from Grand Forks about how awful NDSU is, a formal complaint from UND's President to NDSU's demanding that NDSU fans properly respect UND's mascot, and/or some pornstachio-ed coach using the postgame press conference to launch a diatribe about NDSU? Seriously, why on earth would NDSU want any part of that freak show? DI just gives UND a bigger platform to take cheapshots at NDSU so what used to be local news can become an Bryant Gumbel HBO special / ESPN.com headline / NY Times report.

As long as the culture surrounding UND stays so toxic, I seriously doubt that NDSU will ever willingly agree to schedule them. NDSU might use other excuses, but the real reason is that you don't invite weasels into the hen house.
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Postby tcbison » Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:55 am

Roughrider wrote:i really hope they start playing again, because in the state of North Dakota your either a bison fan or a sioux fan and the football game was huge. the nickel trophey needs to be brought back

The game WAS huge, but UND didn't want to play anymore.


 
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Postby Stromer » Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:59 am

tcbison wrote:
Roughrider wrote:i really hope they start playing again, because in the state of North Dakota your either a bison fan or a sioux fan and the football game was huge. the nickel trophey needs to be brought back

The game WAS huge, but UND didn't want to play anymore.


 

Mind you, UND is responsible for stupidly stopping every other sport except football.  For football, they actually had a legit reason.  For everything else, they didn't.  Now when UND moves up, NDSU will have a legit reason for not scheduling UND in football until they get eligible.  In other sports, they won't have a reason for not scheduling them.  What will win out, NDSU's pride or their morals?
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Postby NDSportsFan » Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:23 am

 I think a lot of it will depend on the attitudes brought on by a new president at UND and the possible replacement for Bunning at AD.  

I'm hoping to see a little more cooperation and a little less finger pointing from everyone.  A rivalry can bring out the best in people, but it also brings out the worst elements in others.
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Postby tcbison » Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:33 am

Stromer wrote:
tcbison wrote:
Roughrider wrote:i really hope they start playing again, because in the state of North Dakota your either a bison fan or a sioux fan and the football game was huge. the nickel trophey needs to be brought back

The game WAS huge, but UND didn't want to play anymore.


 

Mind you, UND is responsible for stupidly stopping every other sport except football.  For football, they actually had a legit reason.  For everything else, they didn't.  Now when UND moves up, NDSU will have a legit reason for not scheduling UND in football until they get eligible.  In other sports, they won't have a reason for not scheduling them.  What will win out, NDSU's pride or their morals?


UND could have played the football games. Here is an example:

Sacramento State moved up to the I-AA ranks in 1993. Their long running rivals across town in UC-Davis decided to stay put in DII. However, these two schools remained rivals in the Causeway Classic and have not missed a year even though UC-Davis remained DII and were under the DII playoff criteria in their final year (in 2002) of DII play. UC-Davis still made the Division II playoffs that year. UC-Davis also held a 9-2 record advantage in that time frame.
I understand that playing the game could have hurt UND's playoff chances but to say that they couldn't play the game is not 100% accurate in my opinion.

You will need to explain to me your last sentence when you question NDSU's morals? What has NDSU done that is immoral?

 

 

 

 
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Postby Stromer » Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:41 pm

tcbison wrote:
Stromer wrote:
tcbison wrote:
Roughrider wrote:i really hope they start playing again, because in the state of North Dakota your either a bison fan or a sioux fan and the football game was huge. the nickel trophey needs to be brought back

The game WAS huge, but UND didn't want to play anymore.


 

Mind you, UND is responsible for stupidly stopping every other sport except football.  For football, they actually had a legit reason.  For everything else, they didn't.  Now when UND moves up, NDSU will have a legit reason for not scheduling UND in football until they get eligible.  In other sports, they won't have a reason for not scheduling them.  What will win out, NDSU's pride or their morals?


UND could have played the football games. Here is an example:

Sacramento State moved up to the I-AA ranks in 1993. Their long running rivals across town in UC-Davis decided to stay put in DII. However, these two schools remained rivals in the Causeway Classic and have not missed a year even though UC-Davis remained DII and were under the DII playoff criteria in their final year (in 2002) of DII play. UC-Davis still made the Division II playoffs that year. UC-Davis also held a 9-2 record advantage in that time frame.
I understand that playing the game could have hurt UND's playoff chances but to say that they couldn't play the game is not 100% accurate in my opinion.

You will need to explain to me your last sentence when you question NDSU's morals? What has NDSU done that is immoral?

 

 

 

 


I never said they couldn't play the game.  It just wasn't in the best interest for them to do so.  While UC Davis took a gamble, it may not have been right for everyone.  I would have liked to see it continue but UND covered their hides at the time.  The funny thing is that it may have actually helped NDSU by UND not playing them. 

I should have made my sentence more clear.  I was talking about some of the fans.  When UND refused to play them, some people raised heck about how petty UND fans were and how they weren't being very good sports when they trashed NDSU.  Now we have a situation where NDSU could take they high road and play UND when it becomes feasible, or they and their fans could follow UND's petty road and trash us back.  Will this situation ever improve or will it stay a huge stuff match?
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Postby flatlander » Thu Oct 04, 2007 2:34 am

No way, UND was not covering their hides, they were just trying to screw NDSU over - period. The fact is that in the nine months that UND made NDSU wait for their decision on a four-year contract, D2 changed the playoff rules so there was no penalty for playing a DI school vs a .500 D2 school. In fact, a D2 school that lost to an unranked DI team ended up hosting three playoff games. Besides, if the playoff situation was really so bad, why did it take UND over a year to figure it out and let NDSU know? Hint: See the first sentence of this post.
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