If you don't like the sioux....do you have a better suggesti

No smack talk is allowed here.

Re: If you don't like the sioux....do you have a better suggesti

Postby balla45 » Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:04 am

Ming01 wrote:
balla45 wrote:
Roughrider wrote:
balla45 wrote:
Ming01 wrote:
balla45 wrote:
Ming01 wrote:Pretty soon their wont be any nicknames cuz PETA will prolly protest animal names


Comparing Native Americans to animals will not earn you any points.


please tell me where in that sentense did I compare native americans to animals...


Topic is only about Sioux. By bringing in the PETA thing, you are, at least to me, comparing people to animals.


i fail to see where he compared people to animals


I will give you an example. I will use this because I have done this before. If you and I were debating whether or not slavery was opressive, and I was talking about how black people were forced to do work, and you countered that animals are also forced to do work, you are comparing people to animals. Now, if you are talking about Sioux (Native Americans, or people) and you compare their situation to PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of ANIMALS) you are then comparing people to animals.

Do you understand now?


I;m still waiting for you to tell me where I compared Native Americans to animals... just because I mentioned PETA doesnt mean I am comparing them. You are blowing my comment way out of proportion. I was just stating that soon we could no longer have any nicknames because PETA could protest animal names. Still not comparing the two. I could bring up many other different organizations or types of ppl, but it doesn't mean I'm comparing them.


I did tell you. I'm not really blowing it out of proportion, I don't think its a big deal. Part of the reason I looked at it that way is because, like I said, I have just been in a debate where slavery was compared to dog fighting. That is probably why I took your comment out of context. That is my fault.
~I have no patience for anyone who doubts me, none at all. My entire goal is to make them feel ashamed for writing me off.

Jordan Maurer
North Dakota Phenom - President
jordan.maurer@northdakotaphenom.com

If you do not like how I operate, play for someone else. I do not need to beg.

~It does not take talent to hustle!
User avatar
balla45
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 4089
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:46 pm
Location: Bismarck, North Dakota USA

Re: If you don't like the sioux....do you have a better suggesti

Postby Indians Alumni » Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:50 am

scruffy wrote:My suggestion....If you don't like the Sioux, then don't go there or don't support them.. :shock:


That has got to be one of the dummest suggestions I have heard yet. So if I don't like the name and believe strongly that the use of the name Cartoonizes my anciestory I should just turn my cheek? Wow! You can't just jump in with your lame/ignorant suggestions without getting an earful!!

That is like saying, if you don't like what Bush is doing, don't pay attention to the news!
It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up. ~Muhammed Ali
User avatar
Indians Alumni
NDPreps Hall of Fame
 
Posts: 1062
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:44 am
Location: Devils Lake. ND

Re: If you don't like the sioux....do you have a better suggesti

Postby Ming01 » Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:48 am

Indians Alumni wrote:
scruffy wrote:My suggestion....If you don't like the Sioux, then don't go there or don't support them.. :shock:


That is like saying, if you don't like what Bush is doing, don't pay attention to the news!


Great point
Ming01
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 2158
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 8:56 pm
Location: Fargo, ND

Re: If you don't like the sioux....do you have a better suggesti

Postby sportsking09 » Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:18 pm

Indians Alumni wrote:
scruffy wrote:My suggestion....If you don't like the Sioux, then don't go there or don't support them.. :shock:


That has got to be one of the dummest suggestions I have heard yet. So if I don't like the name and believe strongly that the use of the name Cartoonizes my anciestory I should just turn my cheek? Wow! You can't just jump in with your lame/ignorant suggestions without getting an earful!!

That is like saying, if you don't like what Bush is doing, don't pay attention to the news!


Cartoonizes?!?! who cares you dont see caucasians getting in an uproar about the team name and logo of the Mountaineers, and a logo isnt a cartoon, if the sioux logo had a running series on tv of its self making jokes and stuff then it would be a cartoon, but it is just a logo so get over it
University of North Dakota Fighting Sioux, and thats the way its gonna stay
GO SIOUX!!!!
sportsking09
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 183
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:38 pm
Location: North Dakota

Re: If you don't like the sioux....do you have a better suggesti

Postby Roughrider » Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:44 pm

sportsking09 wrote:
Indians Alumni wrote:
scruffy wrote:My suggestion....If you don't like the Sioux, then don't go there or don't support them.. :shock:


That has got to be one of the dummest suggestions I have heard yet. So if I don't like the name and believe strongly that the use of the name Cartoonizes my anciestory I should just turn my cheek? Wow! You can't just jump in with your lame/ignorant suggestions without getting an earful!!

That is like saying, if you don't like what Bush is doing, don't pay attention to the news!


Cartoonizes?!?! who cares you dont see caucasians getting in an uproar about the team name and logo of the Mountaineers, and a logo isnt a cartoon, if the sioux logo had a running series on tv of its self making jokes and stuff then it would be a cartoon, but it is just a logo so get over it


well put
GO SIOUX GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Image
User avatar
Roughrider
NDPreps All-Conference
 
Posts: 270
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:07 pm
Location: Fargo, North Dakota

Re: If you don't like the sioux....do you have a better suggesti

Postby Makotifarmguy » Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:05 pm

Geeze, 18 pages and you haven't solved this issue yet? You guys should have been able to solve most of the world's problems in 18 pages.

I am waiting to hear from the tribes. Is it offensive or do they feel exploited. Has that been answered yet.

If it is deamed offensive, then the name/logo needs to change.

If it is considered exploited, then UND cough some money, scholarships, etc.. up and the name stays.

That is what it boils down to.
"Take the bull by the horns"
User avatar
Makotifarmguy
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:01 am
Location: Middle of the Prairie

Re: If you don't like the sioux....do you have a better suggesti

Postby Number7 » Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:19 pm

Makotifarmguy wrote:Geeze, 18 pages and you haven't solved this issue yet? You guys should have been able to solve most of the world's problems in 18 pages.

I am waiting to hear from the tribes. Is it offensive or do they feel exploited. Has that been answered yet.

If it is deamed offensive, then the name/logo needs to change.

If it is considered exploited, then UND cough some money, scholarships, etc.. up and the name stays.

That is what it boils down to.

All been covered in the previous 18 pages, often more than once.
"Pressure makes diamonds"
User avatar
Number7
NDPreps All-State
 
Posts: 778
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:31 pm

Re: If you don't like the sioux....do you have a better suggesti

Postby biggie » Sat Feb 02, 2008 8:46 pm

Roughrider wrote:
sportsking09 wrote:
Indians Alumni wrote:
scruffy wrote:My suggestion....If you don't like the Sioux, then don't go there or don't support them.. :shock:


That has got to be one of the dummest suggestions I have heard yet. So if I don't like the name and believe strongly that the use of the name Cartoonizes my anciestory I should just turn my cheek? Wow! You can't just jump in with your lame/ignorant suggestions without getting an earful!!

That is like saying, if you don't like what Bush is doing, don't pay attention to the news!


Cartoonizes?!?! who cares you dont see caucasians getting in an uproar about the team name and logo of the Mountaineers, and a logo isnt a cartoon, if the sioux logo had a running series on tv of its self making jokes and stuff then it would be a cartoon, but it is just a logo so get over it


well put


X2. This is the dumbest arguement ever.
User avatar
biggie
NDPreps All-Conference
 
Posts: 226
Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 2:41 pm
Location: Grand Forks, ND, USA

Re: If you don't like the sioux....do you have a better suggesti

Postby Indians Alumni » Sat Feb 02, 2008 9:00 pm

sportsking09 wrote:
Indians Alumni wrote:
scruffy wrote:My suggestion....If you don't like the Sioux, then don't go there or don't support them.. :shock:


That has got to be one of the dummest suggestions I have heard yet. So if I don't like the name and believe strongly that the use of the name Cartoonizes my anciestory I should just turn my cheek? Wow! You can't just jump in with your lame/ignorant suggestions without getting an earful!!

That is like saying, if you don't like what Bush is doing, don't pay attention to the news!


Cartoonizes?!?! who cares you dont see caucasians getting in an uproar about the team name and logo of the Mountaineers, and a logo isnt a cartoon, if the sioux logo had a running series on tv of its self making jokes and stuff then it would be a cartoon, but it is just a logo so get over it


Yes it is cartoonized! It is not a ligitimate portrait of a Native American, so it is a cartoon. Check your definitions.

That is not the image that I want portraited when I think of my people. I think of people like Sitting Bull, not what someone drew up! And no I don't want the logo changed to Sitting Bull, I want it not used at all!

Mountaineers is not a race or a creed! So you cannot compare the two! Can you check Mountaineer when you are asked about race on a legal documents? So your statement is not valid in your arguement and dismissed!
It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up. ~Muhammed Ali
User avatar
Indians Alumni
NDPreps Hall of Fame
 
Posts: 1062
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:44 am
Location: Devils Lake. ND

Re: If you don't like the sioux....do you have a better suggesti

Postby OldSchool » Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:44 pm

Indians Alumni wrote: Can you check Mountaineer when you are asked about race on a legal documents? So your statement is not valid in your arguement and dismissed!


Indians Alumni-

Is the name Sioux on a legal document? You knew what he meant!!!!
OldSchool
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 130
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:05 am

Re: If you don't like the sioux....do you have a better suggesti

Postby sportsking09 » Sun Feb 03, 2008 2:17 am

Exactly, that is my point, and just my last two cents, the nickname and logo were not made up to be harmful or abusive towards anyone END OF STORY
University of North Dakota Fighting Sioux, and thats the way its gonna stay
GO SIOUX!!!!
sportsking09
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 183
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:38 pm
Location: North Dakota

Re: If you don't like the sioux....do you have a better suggesti

Postby Indians Alumni » Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:59 am

You are still not winning the arguement! How does that legitimize the use of the name and logo? You can say you are honoring a race all you want, if the race being "Honored" is not honored, then get rid of it! If you hold our culture and race in high regards you honor us, then respect our wishes!
It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up. ~Muhammed Ali
User avatar
Indians Alumni
NDPreps Hall of Fame
 
Posts: 1062
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:44 am
Location: Devils Lake. ND

Re: If you don't like the sioux....do you have a better suggesti

Postby OldSchool » Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:13 pm

Your in the minority Indians Alumni, and I would bet the vote that is going to take place very soon on the reservation will show this. Just because you speak the loudest and the most doesn't mean you are right, and again I would bet you are representing the minority.
OldSchool
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 130
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:05 am

Re: If you don't like the sioux....do you have a better suggesti

Postby Indians Alumni » Sun Feb 03, 2008 5:12 pm

I can Guarantee that I am not the Minority!
It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up. ~Muhammed Ali
User avatar
Indians Alumni
NDPreps Hall of Fame
 
Posts: 1062
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:44 am
Location: Devils Lake. ND

Re: If you don't like the sioux....do you have a better suggesti

Postby Hinsa » Sun Feb 03, 2008 11:11 pm

Indians Alumni:

Guarantee? You have done a scientific poll of all voting members of the tribe and calculated a definitive result that is outside the potential margin of error? Or are you basing this on the conversations you have had with the people you associate with?

I am not saying you are in the minority, but I question how you can make such a guarantee when no vote has been taken of ALL tribal members.
Twins and Vikings Forever!
User avatar
Hinsa
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 2028
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:53 am
Location: THE Red River Valley Conference

Re: If you don't like the sioux....do you have a better suggesti

Postby NDSportsFan » Mon Feb 04, 2008 6:54 pm

Perhaps we'll get that vote if you believe what you read in the papers, at least for the Spirit Lake tribe. It would be interesting to get a better idea of the amount of support for and against the use the the Fighting Sioux nickname by members of the tribe. What percentage would it take for the tribe to change their opinion and offer it's support? 70/30? 90/10? I think it will be closer to 50/50.
User avatar
NDSportsFan
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 2116
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 7:35 am
Location: Fargo

Re: If you don't like the sioux....do you have a better suggesti

Postby Indians Alumni » Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:13 am

I know I am not the only one who supports the name change, I just happen to be the loudest. I guess that is one of my attributes is to speak for what I strongly believe in! Like I stated in one of my first posts, Passivism is not one of my traits. I am the type to speak up if I see something wrong, I have no color, creed, or sexism in my decisions, it is right and wrong.

Bottom line, you will find that there are more non-supporters of the name, and UND is doing nothing to try and help themselves. I am sure they will do something the last year of their deferrment.

So far, I have seen a lot of the opposite. I have seen in the Grand Forks Herald blog, ignorance, I have seen that on this page, and that not get you any points for changing the minds of Native Americans. Native American people do not forget easily. I guess that is due to years of getting screwed over, and has become a part of our DNA.
It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up. ~Muhammed Ali
User avatar
Indians Alumni
NDPreps Hall of Fame
 
Posts: 1062
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:44 am
Location: Devils Lake. ND

Re: If you don't like the sioux....do you have a better suggesti

Postby Makotifarmguy » Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:22 am

Indians Alumni wrote:
and UND is doing nothing to try and help themselves. I am sure they will do something the last year of their deferrment.


That is NOT true. Back in November I was in Grand Forks an on a tour through Engelstad Arena with a friend who works there. There were several Native Americans that walked in about the same time I did. Dressed 'to the nines' and it was obvious they were persons of importance. They didn't get the nickel and dime tour, they were given a tour by the top dogs at Engelstad.

I am not sure who they were, but it seemed to me UND was trying to make some connections.

Now you know how I feel about the name, but I had to speak up because that quote above is not correct.
"Take the bull by the horns"
User avatar
Makotifarmguy
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:01 am
Location: Middle of the Prairie

Re: If you don't like the sioux....do you have a better suggesti

Postby OldSchool » Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:48 pm

I don't think that anyone will ever deny that what has happened to native americans over the years was horrible, but these things happened a hundred years ago. I am just wondering at what point the pity party is going to stop or will this arguement continue from the native american people forever. I believe at some point you have to stand up and make your own breaks.
OldSchool
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 130
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:05 am

Re: If you don't like the sioux....do you have a better suggesti

Postby sportsking09 » Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:20 am

Perfectly and well put.
University of North Dakota Fighting Sioux, and thats the way its gonna stay
GO SIOUX!!!!
sportsking09
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 183
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:38 pm
Location: North Dakota

Re: If you don't like the sioux....do you have a better suggesti

Postby Indians Alumni » Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:36 am

OldSchool wrote:I don't think that anyone will ever deny that what has happened to native americans over the years was horrible, but these things happened a hundred years ago. I am just wondering at what point the pity party is going to stop or will this arguement continue from the native american people forever. I believe at some point you have to stand up and make your own breaks.





Try getting way with saying that about Afro-Americans or Jewish Americans! Tell them that they need to get over it and move on. As a matter of fact, neither of these races where put on reservations and givin a snow balls chance to survive. Your government gave us blankets filled with small pox and spoiled food. If you don't think this substandard of health care goes on, take a walk into our clinics on the reservation. You will not see a regular doctor last more than a couple months. This is all by YOUR federal government and you expect us to trust that you all have our best interests? Don't think so, I was born at night but not last night!

There is no pity party! There is only right and wrong. People are not moscots or logos! They should have their wishes respected and that is that!

Yeah there are some that support the name, those may be the dancers you are talking about! So what is your point. Just because there are a handful that support the name, mean lets keep the name! I don't think so!
It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up. ~Muhammed Ali
User avatar
Indians Alumni
NDPreps Hall of Fame
 
Posts: 1062
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:44 am
Location: Devils Lake. ND

Re: If you don't like the sioux....do you have a better suggesti

Postby OldSchool » Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:04 pm

Indians Alumni wrote:
OldSchool wrote:I don't think that anyone will ever deny that what has happened to native americans over the years was horrible, but these things happened a hundred years ago. I am just wondering at what point the pity party is going to stop or will this arguement continue from the native american people forever. I believe at some point you have to stand up and make your own breaks.





Try getting way with saying that about Afro-Americans or Jewish Americans! Tell them that they need to get over it and move on. As a matter of fact, neither of these races where put on reservations and givin a snow balls chance to survive. Your government gave us blankets filled with small pox and spoiled food. If you don't think this substandard of health care goes on, take a walk into our clinics on the reservation. You will not see a regular doctor last more than a couple months. This is all by YOUR federal government and you expect us to trust that you all have our best interests? Don't think so, I was born at night but not last night!

There is no pity party! There is only right and wrong. People are not moscots or logos! They should have their wishes respected and that is that!

I like the part where you state "your government". Isn't it also your government. Think about it for a moment. That is half the problem you still think your getting suppressed over a hundred years later. The opportunities are out there for all native americans, but by in large you all want to live off, as you put it, "our government". Why are the clinics like that and why are we still being forced to provide this, that is my question. Time to start growing up and living like a big boy.
OldSchool
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 130
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:05 am

Re: If you don't like the sioux....do you have a better suggesti

Postby NDSportsFan » Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:33 pm

I think the point IA was trying to make was basically this. If it's not ok to use African-American, Jewish, or even Asian-Americans as mascot's, then why is it still ok to use Native Americans? My guess is because they don't have a powerful organization like the NAACP, or the Anti-Defamation League to take up the fight. Sadly the tribes that have the financial ability to do that are the ones that have used the selling of their imagery to make themselves wealthy, such as the Seminoles. The Sioux tribes are poor, rural and have little political voice.

We are not going to solve these problems on a message board. Keep it civil and informative, without getting personal please.
User avatar
NDSportsFan
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 2116
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 7:35 am
Location: Fargo

Re: If you don't like the sioux....do you have a better suggesti

Postby nativegolfer » Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:37 pm

OldSchool wrote:
Indians Alumni wrote:
OldSchool wrote:I don't think that anyone will ever deny that what has happened to native americans over the years was horrible, but these things happened a hundred years ago. I am just wondering at what point the pity party is going to stop or will this arguement continue from the native american people forever. I believe at some point you have to stand up and make your own breaks.





Try getting way with saying that about Afro-Americans or Jewish Americans! Tell them that they need to get over it and move on. As a matter of fact, neither of these races where put on reservations and givin a snow balls chance to survive. Your government gave us blankets filled with small pox and spoiled food. If you don't think this substandard of health care goes on, take a walk into our clinics on the reservation. You will not see a regular doctor last more than a couple months. This is all by YOUR federal government and you expect us to trust that you all have our best interests? Don't think so, I was born at night but not last night!

There is no pity party! There is only right and wrong. People are not moscots or logos! They should have their wishes respected and that is that!

I like the part where you state "your government". Isn't it also your government. Think about it for a moment. That is half the problem you still think your getting suppressed over a hundred years later. The opportunities are out there for all native americans, but by in large you all want to live off, as you put it, "our government". Why are the clinics like that and why are we still being forced to provide this, that is my question. Time to start growing up and living like a big boy.


OK heres where I jump in. It's just total ignorance on your part to say that We all, meaning NA's, live off of the government. Sure there are a number that do but don't put us all in a group, that just perpetuates the ignorance. Are there no caucasions living off the government? Thats what I thought. As far as our health care, in order for us to have health care or business' like other communities we have to have a land base that's worth something. have you been to a rez? Theres a reason rez's are where they are, they are mostly worthless tracts of land that can't produce much crops or feed livestock. The one thing we have at Spirit Lake that could make us more stable is the lake. There are treaties which state we own the lake but guess what, since there are millions of tourist dollars at stake those treaties have mysteriously disappeared. So we cannot prove we own DL and there not a court in the land which will take our side. So all we can do is be poor,I guess.
User avatar
nativegolfer
NDPreps All-State
 
Posts: 637
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 9:12 am
Location: The Rez, ,

Re: If you don't like the sioux....do you have a better suggesti

Postby OldSchool » Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:52 pm

nativegolfer wrote:
OldSchool wrote:
Indians Alumni wrote:
OldSchool wrote:I don't think that anyone will ever deny that what has happened to native americans over the years was horrible, but these things happened a hundred years ago. I am just wondering at what point the pity party is going to stop or will this arguement continue from the native american people forever. I believe at some point you have to stand up and make your own breaks.





Try getting way with saying that about Afro-Americans or Jewish Americans! Tell them that they need to get over it and move on. As a matter of fact, neither of these races where put on reservations and givin a snow balls chance to survive. Your government gave us blankets filled with small pox and spoiled food. If you don't think this substandard of health care goes on, take a walk into our clinics on the reservation. You will not see a regular doctor last more than a couple months. This is all by YOUR federal government and you expect us to trust that you all have our best interests? Don't think so, I was born at night but not last night!

There is no pity party! There is only right and wrong. People are not moscots or logos! They should have their wishes respected and that is that!

I like the part where you state "your government". Isn't it also your government. Think about it for a moment. That is half the problem you still think your getting suppressed over a hundred years later. The opportunities are out there for all native americans, but by in large you all want to live off, as you put it, "our government". Why are the clinics like that and why are we still being forced to provide this, that is my question. Time to start growing up and living like a big boy.


OK heres where I jump in. It's just total ignorance on your part to say that We all, meaning NA's, live off of the government. Are there no caucasions living off the government? Thats what I thought. As far as our health care, in order for us to have health care or business' like other communities we have to have a land base that's worth something. have you been to a rez? Theres a reason rez's are where they are, they are mostly worthless tracts of land that can't produce much crops or feed livestock. The one thing we have at Spirit Lake that could make us more stable is the lake. There are treaties which state we own the lake but guess what, since there are millions of tourist dollars at stake those treaties have mysteriously disappeared.

I like the part where you say that I said all NA, and get defensive. I said "by and large," Not all, so relax, and the last time I checked I didn't have to pay anything to go catch fish on Devils Lake. Set up a bait shop or something to make money off of tourists, and make a living, or are you saying that if these treaties were available that we would have to pay to catch fish? Just wondering because there is plenty of opportunity to set up business on the rez to attract business. I suppose I may have to start a new topic on the issue of Devils Lake tourism as we are getting a little off subject.
OldSchool
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 130
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:05 am

PreviousNext

Return to North Dakota's Universities and Colleges

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests