If you don't like the sioux....do you have a better suggesti

[Ming01]

Interesting letter to the editor about this in the Bismarck Tribune, I agree with most of it. It's written by someone from Standing Rock.

http://www.bismarcktribune.com/articles ... 143288.txt

[dtvman]

dtvman, come on, are u telling me that if an alumnis was throwing 100 million dollars your way for new facilities and an arena that you wouldnt take it. thats bull, everyone would do the same thing

Personally with the sort of stipulations that came with the money I would not take it. I have no idea if other schools would or wouldn't take the money. The point is that those involved should have realized that just because Ralph said this is the way it is and this is how it is always going to be, didn't make it so. I hope that if the name does get changed, UND does not have to stop using the buildings. It would be a huge waste.

[Indians Alumni]

dtvman, come on, are u telling me that if an alumnis was throwing 100 million dollars your way for new facilities and an arena that you wouldnt take it. thats bull, everyone would do the same thing

Personally with the sort of stipulations that came with the money I would not take it. I have no idea if other schools would or wouldn't take the money. The point is that those involved should have realized that just because Ralph said this is the way it is and this is how it is always going to be, didn't make it so. I hope that if the name does get changed, UND does not have to stop using the buildings. It would be a huge waste.

That is what I am talking about, what would the Englstad estate do, if UND after the name change, does not use it!? I mean there is a whole lot of money that goes into the upkeep of that facility and I am sure UND does alot of it! So they would have to hire a whole new staff! A big waste for a big business mans estate!

[Hinsa]

Interesting letter to the editor about this in the Bismarck Tribune, I agree with most of. It's written by someone from Standing Rock.

http://www.bismarcktribune.com/articles ... 143288.txt

Ming01 - thank you for posting this link. I read the letter from Mr. Fool Bear and every last follow up post - there were hundreds of them. The discussion prompted by Mr. Fool Bear's letter was mostly well thought out and passionate on both sides of the name and logo issue.

Before I read the letter and posts I was beginning to tire of the whole name issue and resigning myself to figuring out what UND's new nickname would be. After reading it I feel as strongly as I ever have that UND should keep the Fighting Sioux name and logo.

I saw many, many posts by Native Americans in favor of keeping the Sioux name with sound reasoning behind their support. The most convincing one to me is that keeping the Sioux name continues to keep the Sioux tribe in the consciousness of all those associated with UND and provides an opportunity for educating people about what the Sioux are all about.

And another thing I did not know - 6 of 8 voting districts in the Standing Rock reservation SUPPORT keeping the name, but the tribal council doesn't listen to their people and votes for removal of the name.

And this last point from another Sioux tribe member - if the name is so offensive, why doesn't the Sioux tribe itself change the tribal name???? That would seem to be a huge contradiction - it's offensive when a state learning institution uses the name but not when the tribe itself uses the name??????

[Indians Alumni]

You gotta remember that You also have to support of the Spirit Lake Tribe. I for one am not in support of it.

You asked about using the Sioux name on the reservations, you gotta remember that US Government termed and labelled Dakotah and Lakotah people as Sioux, so some of the tribal entities are going to be still labelled that way.

I would be up for a vote among between the two "Sioux" tribes, Standing Rock and Spirit Lake, let the people speak!

[Number7]

Thats exactly it! Most of the Sioux people support the nickname and take great pride in what it symbolizes. I thought a great point was made in Mr. Fool Bear's article about how Native Americans themselves have nicknames like "Braves" and "warriors" so why not "fighting sioux" very hypocritical? Also nobody says anything to Mandan, another public institution not on a reservation who is nicknamed the Braves. I hope it does not come to this but if you look at larger schools like Florida State, the Seminole nation was originally upset like the Sioux people but when the university offered to contribute millions of dollars in profits, the tribal leaders quickly became quiet and allow the university to use the nickname. Hopefully the nickname will stay for so many reasons.

[Indians Alumni]

I am not the only one who opposes the nickname! That article was written by one man on only one of the reservations, he does not speak for all of us! Let all of us, speak for all of us!

[Number7]

The Standing Rock people spoke and a majority were in favor

[Hinsa]

Has there ever been a vote of the entire Spirit Lake Tribe on this issue? If so, is it documented anywhere?

[Indians Alumni]

According to who, one guy who wrote an article? I am sure that you saw this one article and jumped on its coat-tails without even researching it!

[Makotifarmguy]

I am sure that you saw this one article and jumped on its coat-tails without even researching it!

IA: you know how I feel about the name, I think many others will struggle with this statement above. What do you mean by researching it? What research can one do? Can you provide that research for us? Can you explain which part of his letter was inaccurate or incorrect? I think that would help those who who agree with the article written.

[nativegolfer]

You don't vote on an issue like this and say if over 50% of the people are in favor then UND can continue to use the name. There probably are over 50% of the NA's who are not offened, but that leaves a significant amount who are offended. What % is needed to keep/change the name? I think if at least 20-25% are offended, then it needs to be changed. Another thing is who is offended. I think the majority of young adults and teens are not offended, but the majority of adults and elderly definitely are offended. And on the Rez they are the ones whose opinions count

[Roughrider]

what is your resoning behind saying that if 25% are offended they should change it. and y is it that only the adults opinion that count. thats bull, everyones opinion matters. everyone has a chance to voice their opinion on the issue without any discretion. and you can just say "well if 25% are offended then thats enought so they should change it. whatever the majority says should be the final outcome.

[Indians Alumni]

There is nothing incorrect or wrong with the letter, I am just saying that one man's letter does not speak for the whole tribe. By researching, I mean don't go by one man's letter!

To answer why do the adults oppinion matter, well they are old enough to vote. You don't take votes from youngsters in other communities, why should we?

[Ming01]

i wish this issue would just all go away so my head can stop throbbing...

[nativegolfer]

One thing is for sure about this issue: It has brought out just how much prejudice and racism there is still out there. reading this forum and the forums in the GF Herald allow me to see that the people who support the don't deserve to use it. And that Bonehead in jamestown with the T-shirts! He's lucky the NCAAP or the ACLU don't have a strong presence here in ND or his man would be shut down and he'd be going to court.

[Hinsa]

Nativegolfer,

This is not a shot in any way. It is just a question that I'd like to be educated on.

The biggest reason I hear for changing the name is because the Sioux name is abusive and offensive. That's my perception anyway. If the name is offensive, why do we not hear about the tribe trying to change it's name? I realize you can't just change the name - there are government issues with the legal name of the tribe and all that. But I don't hear anything about the tribe asking the government to change the name of the tribe.

Honestly, not a shot at all, I just want to hear your take on that.

[Stromer]

One thing is for sure about this issue: It has brought out just how much prejudice and racism there is still out there. reading this forum and the forums in the GF Herald allow me to see that the people who support the don't deserve to use it. And that Bonehead in jamestown with the T-shirts! He's lucky the NCAAP or the ACLU don't have a strong presence here in ND or his man would be shut down and he'd be going to court.

You are correct. North Dakota is full of racism and prejudice. What has yet to be shown is how will eliminating the name and logo help the situation. That is the million dollar question and nobody wants to touch it.

[Number7]

One thing is for sure about this issue: It has brought out just how much prejudice and racism there is still out there. reading this forum and the forums in the GF Herald allow me to see that the people who support the don't deserve to use it. And that Bonehead in jamestown with the T-shirts! He's lucky the NCAAP or the ACLU don't have a strong presence here in ND or his man would be shut down and he'd be going to court.

You are correct. North Dakota is full of racism and prejudice. What has yet to be shown is how will eliminating the name and logo help the situation. That is the million dollar question and nobody wants to touch it.

The fact of the matter is that racism and prejudice happens to be a social and cultural issue. Simply changing the nickname of a college's sports team will not change the way people feel about others who are different than them. And another question I would love to know the answer to which has not been addressed and could be answered by fellow members and Native Americans on this forum. Why does the "Fighting Sioux" nickname offend you? is it the "fighting" before Sioux or the entire nickname in general and why? I am not Native American and also do not have a problem with the name but would love to hear your reasoning because I feel it will help people better understand the problem everyone against the name has with it.

[rep]

One thing is for sure about this issue: It has brought out just how much prejudice and racism there is still out there. reading this forum and the forums in the GF Herald allow me to see that the people who support the don't deserve to use it. And that Bonehead in jamestown with the T-shirts! He's lucky the NCAAP or the ACLU don't have a strong presence here in ND or his man would be shut down and he'd be going to court.

You are correct. North Dakota is full of racism and prejudice. What has yet to be shown is how will eliminating the name and logo help the situation. That is the million dollar question and nobody wants to touch it.

The fact of the matter is that racism and prejudice happens to be a social and cultural issue. Simply changing the nickname of a college's sports team will not change the way people feel about others who are different than them. And another question I would love to know the answer to which has not been addressed and could be answered by fellow members and Native Americans on this forum. Why does the "Fighting Sioux" nickname offend you? is it the "fighting" before Sioux or the entire nickname in general and why? I am not Native American and also do not have a problem with the name but would love to hear your reasoning because I feel it will help people better understand the problem everyone against the name has with it.

that question has already been asked and answered in this thread i believe.

[Indians Alumni]

I will help educate you again, if you allow the use of the name or use of other offensive nicknames, you allow racism to continue!

[Roughrider]

oh come on. when you guys are talking about racism, i want to get some examples to support your theory. as long as i have been in North Dakota i have not seen one ounce of Racism towards native americans

[Ming01]

One thing is for sure about this issue: It has brought out just how much prejudice and racism there is still out there. reading this forum and the forums in the GF Herald allow me to see that the people who support the don't deserve to use it. And that Bonehead in jamestown with the T-shirts! He's lucky the NCAAP or the ACLU don't have a strong presence here in ND or his man would be shut down and he'd be going to court.

thank god the ACLU isnt involved here

Is it an offensive nickname? Maybe. It's not offensive to me, but I'm not exactly the best example. But you have touched on the issue I feel is most in our favor. why drop the issue with the Seminoles and Fighting Illini but continue to pursue the Fighting Sioux? I get that there is some tribe support, but it just seems like a double standard by the NCAA.

[EDC]

a

[Ming01]

one thing i dont understand is some ppl say if UND would give scholarships or offer classes about NA History then they would accept the name, I dont get it. if und gives out more scholoarships does that all of a sudden make the logo non offensive and stop racism? NO! somethings fishy here...