If you don't like the sioux....do you have a better suggesti

[Roughrider]

Just wondering cclub, do you hate the nickname?

i dont even follow that college so i don't care to simply answer your question

i do care about that fact that it makes others angry but it doesn't directly affect me

alright i respect that, thats a pretty decent way to answer the question

[Indians Alumni]

I got the perfect nickname that would be very fitting and appropriate:  The UND Fighting Englestads!  Is there anything more perfect?

Yeah there is something more perfect:  FIGHTING SIOUX!!!

NBE, you're out of order!!!

how do you figure he is out of order, he is just stating the obvious. the truth is there isnt any nickname that anybody can think of that would be better than FIGHTING SIOUX.-

Ok, you tell me why it is so much better?  I mean you tell me how you justify the use!  Because it has been used for so many years?  Well not good enough. 

The Obvious would be to change it!  People, including myself, are offended!  :buttkick:

Give me your justified reason as to why you are affended by the nickname

I am offended because I am not Sioux, I am Dakota.  I am not hostile, as the Fighting in Fighting Sioux represents.  You will not find the word Sioux in the Dakota Dictionary, you may find it in the French Dictionary. 

What makes it ok to use a race as a mascot.  So I return the questions, what in your mind makes it ok?  I mean give me some solid reasons why they should keep the name? 

[project-pat]

I got the perfect nickname that would be very fitting and appropriate:  The UND Fighting Englestads!  Is there anything more perfect?

Yeah there is something more perfect:  FIGHTING SIOUX!!!

NBE, you're out of order!!!

how do you figure he is out of order, he is just stating the obvious. the truth is there isnt any nickname that anybody can think of that would be better than FIGHTING SIOUX.-

Ok, you tell me why it is so much better?  I mean you tell me how you justify the use!  Because it has been used for so many years?  Well not good enough. 

The Obvious would be to change it!  People, including myself, are offended!  :buttkick:

Give me your justified reason as to why you are affended by the nickname

I am offended because I am not Sioux, I am Dakota.  I am not hostile, as the Fighting in Fighting Sioux represents.  You will not find the word Sioux in the Dakota Dictionary, you may find it in the French Dictionary. 

What makes it ok to use a race as a mascot.  So I return the questions, what in your mind makes it ok?  I mean give me some solid reasons why they should keep the name? 

Would it be better if just "fighting" was removed?

[Indians Alumni]

I don't think that would help.  I mean this is a race situation.  I think changing the name totally would only help the situation. 

[Stromer]

Hey IA I have a question for you.  If you do not consider yourself Sioux but instead Dakota, why does the name Sioux bother you?  And the question that I wonder about the most is why does the Spirit Lake tribe have a factory called Sioux Manufacturing if they indeed are Dakota?  Not trying to jump anyone here but I would like to get some answers to these questions. 

On a similar note, in no way should the name be changed.  However if it ever did, it should be the "Cavalry".  Some one on SS posted this and it really is the best.  It fits in with the states culture and it isn't an animal or some thing like the northern lights.

[brownbomber]

the name is not meant to offend anyone its representing NDs native backround and everyone that puts on the green and white is proud to represent and i dont understand why everyone is making such a big deal out of this how could you be offended by a college who is top notch among the nation

[fb_fan]

I may be way off base, but I think of it this way. I look at this as being an honor to have a school with your nickname. I don't think that UND or any other teams that have native american mascots are doing any injustice to the native american tribes. There are many students that would love to put on a jersey or a t-shirt that has "fighting sioux" on it and wear it with pride. I guess in my eyes I see this as more of an honor than it being disrespectful. But no matter what happens, someone will always be unhappy about it. That is the worst part of it all. That is my two cents. But if they do change it, I think they should use their real school colors and go with the "FIGHTING PINK PANTHERS". Seems to be a logical choice for me!!!:D

[rez01]

the name is not meant to offend anyone its representing NDs native backround and everyone that puts on the green and white is proud to represent and i dont understand why everyone is making such a big deal out of this how could you be offended by a college who is top notch among the nation

Unless you're Lakota, you'll never understand. Just the way it is. Plus not everyone is offended by the name, I'm not.

[nativegolfer]

the name is not meant to offend anyone its representing NDs native backround and everyone that puts on the green and white is proud to represent and i dont understand why everyone is making such a big deal out of this how could you be offended by a college who is top notch among the nation

Unless you're Lakota, you'll never understand. Just the way it is. Plus not everyone is offended by the name, I'm not.

Or Dakota. 

[fb_fan]

I guess I don't understand, so could I get some clarification on this one. Basically what you are saying is, if the school name was the "Fighting Dakota, Lakota or any other tribe, people would be happier with it?? I guess I am not understanding why that makes a difference. If they were the Fighting Native Americans, would that be different? I guess I am very naive about this subject, if someone could clear this up for me than that would be great!! Thanks for any information you can supply me.

[nativegolfer]

I guess I don't understand, so could I get some clarification on this one.

Basically what you are saying is, if the school name was the "Fighting Dakota, Lakota or any other tribe, people would be happier with it?? I guess I am not understanding why that makes a difference. If they were the Fighting Native Americans, would that be different? I guess I am very naive about this subject, if someone could clear this up for me than that would be great!! Thanks for any information you can supply me.

I think what rez is saying is that unless you are native and know what it's like to grow up on the rez and be discrimianted against, etc, you'd see the issue a different way.  Go to the first fighting sioux topic and read some of the posts that I wrote.  Might give you some perspective.

[baller01]

What I don't get is why is it ok for Notre Dame to be the "Fighting Irish" but UND can't be the "Fighting Sioux"? I'm not Irish but if it was the "Fighting Germans" I wouldn't care. I don't know why you think it is offensive to have a school named after you. Comparing the "N" word to the use of the "Fighting Sioux" nickname isn't even comparable. The "N" word is a term used to insult blacks. The term "Fighting Sioux" isn't a term used to insult Natives. You don't walk up to a Native and say you are a fighting sioux to insult them. The term "Fighting Sioux" isn't a term used to insult, its mearly a nickname.

[nativegolfer]

What I don't get is why is it ok for Notre Dame to be the "Fighting Irish" but UND can't be the "Fighting Sioux"? I'm not Irish but if it was the "Fighting Germans" I wouldn't care. I don't know why you think it is offensive to have a school named after you. Comparing the "N" word to the use of the "Fighting Sioux" nickname isn't even comparable. The "N" word is a term used to insult blacks. The term "Fighting Sioux" isn't a term used to insult Natives. You don't walk up to a Native and say you are a fighting sioux to insult them. The term "Fighting Sioux" isn't a term used to insult, its mearly a nickname.

Posted: Fri Apr 20th, 2007 08:01 am






[user=704]power-aid14[/user] wrote: [/b]

how is "fighting souix" offensive?

why isnt there an uproar about fighting irish???
[/quote]

Maybe because there wasn't an effort by the US government to exterminate them, put them on reservations, give them blankets infected with smallpox, sell them gallons of liquor dirt cheap and jack up the price of milk and bread, and force them to give up their culture and way of life. 

 The whole thing started along time ago.

[project-pat]

so your saying the Irish were never discriminated when they got here?

[Baller]

We have debated for 2 pages about not liking the nickname....this topic was supposed to be about suggestions on what to change it to and I have not seen ONE serious answer.

[Ming01]

The Irish were discriminated against here pretty badly back in the day.

[baller01]

What I don't get is why is it ok for Notre Dame to be the "Fighting Irish" but UND can't be the "Fighting Sioux"? I'm not Irish but if it was the "Fighting Germans" I wouldn't care. I don't know why you think it is offensive to have a school named after you. Comparing the "N" word to the use of the "Fighting Sioux" nickname isn't even comparable. The "N" word is a term used to insult blacks. The term "Fighting Sioux" isn't a term used to insult Natives. You don't walk up to a Native and say you are a fighting sioux to insult them. The term "Fighting Sioux" isn't a term used to insult, its mearly a nickname.

Posted: Fri Apr 20th, 2007 08:01 am






[user=704]power-aid14[/user] wrote: [/b]

how is "fighting souix" offensive?

why isnt there an uproar about fighting irish???

Maybe because there wasn't an effort by the US government to exterminate them, put them on reservations, give them blankets infected with smallpox, sell them gallons of liquor dirt cheap and jack up the price of milk and bread, and force them to give up their culture and way of life. 

 The whole thing started along time ago.
[/quote]

I'm not going to sit and say that the way the whites treated the Indians was right, because I don't think it was. What happened back then is history. Nothing can be done to change it. But just as us whites were wrong for doing what we did you are just as bad for continuing to hold a grudge against us. We as a society get no where when we are divided. If you want to hold a grudge against whites for the rest of your life, thats fine. But then you are just as bad as a white who disciminates against an Indian.

Like I said before, the term "Fighting Sioux" is not a term used to insult a Native. The "fighting" part is a verb used to intimidate another team. I don't think "Cuddly Sioux" would do that. The "Sioux" part of it is just a tribe of Indians that were located on the plains.

There are good Indians and bad Indians. Good Blacks and bad Blacks. Good Whites and bad Whites.

[cdub1]

it could easily be the fighting bears or simply und fighting warriors

[project-pat]

it could easily be the fighting bears or simply und fighting warriors

NO, UND is the college I am looking at going, and i can not see myself going if the nickname isn't the sioux, i love that nickname. People should stop taking it as "discrimination" and start taking at it as an honor which is what it is.

[cdub1]

it could easily be the fighting bears or simply und fighting warriors

NO, UND is the college I am looking at going, and i can not see myself going if the nickname isn't the sioux, i love that nickname. People should stop taking it as "discrimination" and start taking at it as an honor which is what it is.

2 ways to look at it

the positive view = it doesn't hurt anybody

the negative view = the name needs to be changed and now

in reality it would be much easier to change it and there would be less controversy

[Roughrider]

it could easily be the fighting bears or simply und fighting warriors

NO, UND is the college I am looking at going, and i can not see myself going if the nickname isn't the sioux, i love that nickname. People should stop taking it as "discrimination" and start taking at it as an honor which is what it is.

2 ways to look at it

the positive view = it doesn't hurt anybody

the negative view = the name needs to be changed and now

in reality it would be much easier to change it and there would be less controversy

you tell that to the university who has to change out all the sioux logos inside of The Ralph. i dont think that they would agree that its really that easy. i think it would be the easiest just to leave it and just have everybody drop it already. some of the Natives are just making way too big of a deal about it. UND didnt mean any harm to the tribes with the nickname and either do the fans. like i said a while back, if anything is even said or done its out of passion of sports and is not directed toward the tribes in any way.

[Batman]

Here is an article that discusses the Fighting Sioux vs. Fighting Irish comparison.

http://www.bluecorncomics.com/irish.htm

[ndfan]

To me the big reason they are fighting this is because of the ralph, not the whole reason but a big part of it. How many other schools are fighting this?? It seems to me like a lot more schools are changing then fighting. UND could some how win this lawsuit but would it be the last time this would be in court then? I don't think so, so as long as they keep the name fighting sioux they will be fighting in the courts in my opinion.

Whats wrong with there actual first mascot the flickertail??

[Indians Alumni]

I think the NCAA will uphold the banning of the name.  It is pretty rediculous that the state of North Dakota gets involved.  Pretty Hick if you ask me.

[nativegolfer]

it could easily be the fighting bears or simply und fighting warriors

NO, UND is the college I am looking at going, and i can not see myself going if the nickname isn't the sioux, i love that nickname. People should stop taking it as "discrimination" and start taking at it as an honor which is what it is.

2 ways to look at it

the positive view = it doesn't hurt anybody

the negative view = the name needs to be changed and now

in reality it would be much easier to change it and there would be less controversy

you tell that to the university who has to change out all the sioux logos inside of The Ralph. i dont think that they would agree that its really that easy. i think it would be the easiest just to leave it and just have everybody drop it already. some of the Natives are just making way too big of a deal about it. UND didnt mean any harm to the tribes with the nickname and either do the fans. like i said a while back, if anything is even said or done its out of passion of sports and is not directed toward the tribes in any way.

OK, this is my final post on the topic.  First, you all say it is an honor to have the nickname.  I don't feel honored!  Fact I don't know one person on SLN who feels honored.  When I wen t school at UND I didn't feel honored.  It's easy for you to sit there and say it should be an honor but it doesn't feel that way from here.  Second, UND doesn't deserve the nickname.  I've read about the relationships between FSU and the Seminole tribe and Utah and the Ute tribe and UND is not even in the same neighborhood as those schools.  Those schools have made a sincere, honest effort to build a relationship with those tribes.  Sorry UND, you fail miserably in that department.  And lastly,  I really believe this lawsuit is going to be decided by the support UND recieves or doesn't recieve from SLN, Standing Rock and Sisseton.  Those are the nearest "Sioux" tribes.  I know SRN and Sisseton have already gone on record as not supporting and you can believe I will do all I can to see SLN doesn't support if it comes down to it.