Fighting Sioux?????? the 2nd

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Postby klg_11 » Sat Apr 28, 2007 10:49 am

nativegolfer wrote:
nativegolfer wrote:
ndfan wrote:[user=2527]uconn_8[/user] wrote:
Is there ANYONE in the native american culutre who takes pride in this? They wouldn't have named themselves the fighiting sioux if they didn't think it was a good image. Yeah, and all that stuff with the bison, I've heard it all. Would they name themselves the sioux if they were tryin to discgrace them?? If someone wanted to have their mascot after my heritage, I would consider it an honor.


Well lets have und's mascot be your heritage then and everybody will be happy :)
How many of you non natives have been to a rez?  And I'm not talkin just driving thru or went to the school for a BBgame or to the casino.  This is an open invitation to anyone who wants a tour of Spirit Lake.  I live about 2 miles south of the casino on hwy 57.  I thinks it's an absolute shame that most if not all of these die hard UND fans who want to keep the name have never set foot on a rez or even know a NA.  I think if you got a taste of what rez life is about you'd probably have a different perspective about the UND nickname issue.  You say you are honoring NA's by the nickname but how many of you would sit and break bread in a NA household?  I'm waiting.
STILL WAITING!


thats ok tho, im a vikings fan but i dont even know a viking, nor have i set foot in a Scandinavian country.  ;) take it easy just a joke

yes i have been on a "rez" my aunt use to teach there, and it was terrible, we helped her move because we didnt like her living there. and one of my good friends is a NA , but he has not stand on the sioux situation
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Postby Saucesauer » Sat Apr 28, 2007 10:49 am

ndfan wrote:[user=463]Saucesauer[/user] wrote:
it dosnt matter if people are offended und could change their names to the und smiley faces and people that always wear a frown would be offended or the und computer discs and people without computers would be offended it is tradition and no matter what the name is there will always be at least 1 person offended so let the tradition stand


Your comparing a peoples heritage and culture to a smiley face and computer discs?? Last time i checked those weren't REAL PEOPLE who have FEELINGS. Yes there will always be one person who is offended, but in this case there are many people who are offended by this.


In no way was i comparing i just stated that no matter what it is changed to people will always be offended so just deal with it

Yes i have been to the rez i used to go to cannonball at least that is what i think it is called and i would telll you what it was like but i cant because it would offend you and this topic would end up getting locked and also i hang out with a "NA"just about every weekend and he absolutly loves und and he is always like ya they were named after me so top that
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Postby rez01 » Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:55 am

Saucesauer wrote:
ndfan wrote:[user=463]Saucesauer[/user] wrote:
it dosnt matter if people are offended und could change their names to the und smiley faces and people that always wear a frown would be offended or the und computer discs and people without computers would be offended it is tradition and no matter what the name is there will always be at least 1 person offended so let the tradition stand


Your comparing a peoples heritage and culture to a smiley face and computer discs?? Last time i checked those weren't REAL PEOPLE who have FEELINGS. Yes there will always be one person who is offended, but in this case there are many people who are offended by this.


In no way was i comparing i just stated that no matter what it is changed to people will always be offended so just deal with it

Yes i have been to the rez i used to go to cannonball at least that is what i think it is called and i would telll you what it was like but i cant because it would offend you and this topic would end up getting locked and also i hang out with a "NA"just about every weekend and he absolutly loves und and he is always like ya they were named after me so top that

News flash, not every Lakota is offended by the name. Also why would you telling how Cball is offend people? Everyone knows reservations are horrible...there's a reason why some people say they're 3rd world countries in the middle of America. No one is saying reservations are pretty, the guy is just saying how many of you that are saying "The name is honoring you guys, we are honoring you" would actually step foot on an indian reservation willingly to visit someone and break bread with them.
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Postby cdub1 » Sat Apr 28, 2007 1:31 pm

Wild Wolves wrote:None of them of are ethnic groups.

vikings could be considered an ethnic group
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Postby cdub1 » Sat Apr 28, 2007 1:34 pm

my opinion on it if they want the name changed it should be changed it would be like naming bismarck's court "steve miller campoream" or something like that and him not wanting it well then it shouldn't be named that, that isn't a great example because he is not one person so maybe they would be better of surveying the native americans of that school and having them decide if over 70% support the name you keep it
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Postby Saucesauer » Sun Apr 29, 2007 8:08 am

i would say over 50% because as america beliveing in democracy it is a simple majority
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Postby Wild Wolves » Sun Apr 29, 2007 5:42 pm

cdub1 wrote:
Wild Wolves wrote:None of them of are ethnic groups.

vikings could be considered an ethnic group

Scandinavian yes Viking no
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Postby cdub1 » Sun Apr 29, 2007 5:58 pm

Wild Wolves wrote:
cdub1 wrote:
Wild Wolves wrote:None of them of are ethnic groups.

vikings could be considered an ethnic group

Scandinavian yes Viking no

i thought vikings were irish decent
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Postby Wild Wolves » Sun Apr 29, 2007 6:17 pm

Vikings are from the present countries of Norway, Sweden and Finland.  Existed only for a short period of time historically.  Pillaged England, Ireland, Wales and other European countries.
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Postby cdub1 » Sun Apr 29, 2007 6:28 pm

Wild Wolves wrote:Vikings are from the present countries of Norway, Sweden and Finland.  Existed only for a short period of time historically.  Pillaged England, Ireland, Wales and other European countries.

no idea how you know that but nice hahaha
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Postby project-pat » Sun Apr 29, 2007 6:48 pm

cdub1 wrote:
Wild Wolves wrote:Vikings are from the present countries of Norway, Sweden and Finland.  Existed only for a short period of time historically.  Pillaged England, Ireland, Wales and other European countries.

no idea how you know that but nice hahaha

google magic my friend haha
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Postby Wild Wolves » Sun Apr 29, 2007 7:07 pm

Google smoogle

Bar Trivia = free beverages

Nowledge is powder or something like that:alc:
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Postby Indians Alumni » Mon Apr 30, 2007 5:13 am

I for one thing have lived on both, the reservation and in a major city (Mpls) and I can tell you, there are caucasians who have it rough, Afro Americans who have it rough, and Asian Americans who have it rough.  Now back to the subject.  If a race is offended, then why not get ride of it.  I can tell you why, the majority of the state is run by older male caucasians, whom, I know have been raised in the old school mind set.  I mean it wasn't until 1990's they took down signs in Grand Forks on the back of some bars that read "No Indians Allowed".

This still goes on today.  I remember, through a realiable source that UND's intramural hockey program had a team called the Savage Indians!  This obviously had to pass through some sort of screening!  But it passed and wasn't recognized for a couple months, it was recognized by a Native American Student walking through the halls of the old Ralph and saw the standings.  So the use of the name draws no negativity?  I beg to differ!
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Postby cheesewheel » Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:36 pm

I don't think this should be such a big issue. I would like to know from Native Americans what exactly their problem is with the name. I'm not trying to sound ignorant, but is it just the word "fighting" or does it have to do with the word "Sioux"? Would it be fine if they just went by UND Sioux?

And for the person who asked how many of us have been to a reservation. Why? Have you asked anybody to come break bread with you? If someone would ask me, well then there is a possibility. But this is like any other place, I'm not going to go out of my way to go to a reservation. So I would like to ask, how many Native Americans have actually invited these other people into their home to break bread?
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Postby Roughrider » Mon Apr 30, 2007 4:27 pm

cheesewheel wrote:I don't think this should be such a big issue. I would like to know from Native Americans what exactly their problem is with the name. I'm not trying to sound ignorant, but is it just the word "fighting" or does it have to do with the word "Sioux"? Would it be fine if they just went by UND Sioux?

And for the person who asked how many of us have been to a reservation. Why? Have you asked anybody to come break bread with you? If someone would ask me, well then there is a possibility. But this is like any other place, I'm not going to go out of my way to go to a reservation. So I would like to ask, how many Native Americans have actually invited these other people into their home to break bread?

Amen to that Cheese, i would like to know too what part they are so offended by
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Postby rez01 » Tue May 01, 2007 12:43 am

cheesewheel wrote:I don't think this should be such a big issue. I would like to know from Native Americans what exactly their problem is with the name. I'm not trying to sound ignorant, but is it just the word "fighting" or does it have to do with the word "Sioux"? Would it be fine if they just went by UND Sioux?

And for the person who asked how many of us have been to a reservation. Why? Have you asked anybody to come break bread with you? If someone would ask me, well then there is a possibility. But this is like any other place, I'm not going to go out of my way to go to a reservation. So I would like to ask, how many Native Americans have actually invited these other people into their home to break bread?

If you would read the whole thread...you would've seen my post, trying to explain why some not all Lakota have a problem with the name. Guess you didn't though.
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Postby Indians Alumni » Tue May 01, 2007 4:09 am

cheesewheel wrote:I don't think this should be such a big issue. I would like to know from Native Americans what exactly their problem is with the name. I'm not trying to sound ignorant, but is it just the word "fighting" or does it have to do with the word "Sioux"? Would it be fine if they just went by UND Sioux?

And for the person who asked how many of us have been to a reservation. Why? Have you asked anybody to come break bread with you? If someone would ask me, well then there is a possibility. But this is like any other place, I'm not going to go out of my way to go to a reservation. So I would like to ask, how many Native Americans have actually invited these other people into their home to break bread?


It makes us sound like savages and no where in the Dakota language do we use the word Sioux.  You  may find that in a French Dictionary, and UND uses it to represent us.  I find it offensive that I am cast as a mascot or cartoon.  I find my culture to be a little more beautiful than that. 

If YOU ever been on the reservation, you will find the Native American people very inviting.  They invite you into their home, they will feed you what they can, even if they can't really afford it.  The do this for anyone.  Hospitality is alot on the reservation. 
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Postby nativegolfer » Tue May 01, 2007 4:23 am

cheesewheel wrote:I don't think this should be such a big issue. I would like to know from Native Americans what exactly their problem is with the name. I'm not trying to sound ignorant, but is it just the word "fighting" or does it have to do with the word "Sioux"? Would it be fine if they just went by UND Sioux?

And for the person who asked how many of us have been to a reservation. Why? Have you asked anybody to come break bread with you? If someone would ask me, well then there is a possibility. But this is like any other place, I'm not going to go out of my way to go to a reservation. So I would like to ask, how many Native Americans have actually invited these other people into their home to break bread?

I give up!  In the end I really believe the courts will side with the NCAA.  I believe the deciding factor will be whether or not UND has the support of the tribes in ND.  UND hasn't done anything to get support from the SLN.  Everything they have done is in response to the name issue and they didn't do themselves any favors by getting the state involved!  Thats pathetic if you ask me and believe me I'm going to do all I can from here to see they don't get our support.  I've been trying to get you non natives to see it from the native standpoint, but it' obvious that you either don't care or are just downright ignorant.  Those kinds of attitudes just perpetuate prejudice in ND.  UND, as a school of higher education, has a duty to be an example of doing whats right and fair like so many other institutions of higher ed have done.  Instead they choose to look and act like a bunch of backward hillbillies who are stuck in the 20th century.   
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Postby The Schwab » Tue May 01, 2007 6:19 am

nativegolfer wrote:
cheesewheel wrote:I don't think this should be such a big issue. I would like to know from Native Americans what exactly their problem is with the name. I'm not trying to sound ignorant, but is it just the word "fighting" or does it have to do with the word "Sioux"? Would it be fine if they just went by UND Sioux?

And for the person who asked how many of us have been to a reservation. Why? Have you asked anybody to come break bread with you? If someone would ask me, well then there is a possibility. But this is like any other place, I'm not going to go out of my way to go to a reservation. So I would like to ask, how many Native Americans have actually invited these other people into their home to break bread?

I give up!  In the end I really believe the courts will side with the NCAA.  I believe the deciding factor will be whether or not UND has the support of the tribes in ND.  UND hasn't done anything to get support from the SLN.  Everything they have done is in response to the name issue and they didn't do themselves any favors by getting the state involved!  Thats pathetic if you ask me and believe me I'm going to do all I can from here to see they don't get our support.  I've been trying to get you non natives to see it from the native standpoint, but it' obvious that you either don't care or are just downright ignorant.  Those kinds of attitudes just perpetuate prejudice in ND.  UND, as a school of higher education, has a duty to be an example of doing whats right and fair like so many other institutions of higher ed have done.  Instead they choose to look and act like a bunch of backward hillbillies who are stuck in the 20th century.  
i'm not saying i dont agree with what you say....but it seems to me that everytime someone asks you a question you beat arround the bush and dont really answer it......are you a politician by chance? haha
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Postby Indians Alumni » Tue May 01, 2007 6:23 am

The Schwab wrote:i'm not saying i dont agree with what you say....but it seems to me that everytime someone asks you a question you beat arround the bush and dont really answer it......are you a politician by chance? haha


Schwaby, I didn't beat around the bush.  You can also find my answer in the other one about what the name would be changed to. 

I just don't want my tribe and other tribes that the "Sioux" represent, portraited like that, I would much rather have my tribe portraited for who they are, not what sports team the represent!
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Postby The Schwab » Tue May 01, 2007 6:48 am

Indians Alumni wrote:
The Schwab wrote:i'm not saying i dont agree with what you say....but it seems to me that everytime someone asks you a question you beat arround the bush and dont really answer it......are you a politician by chance? haha


Schwaby, I didn't beat around the bush.  You can also find my answer in the other one about what the name would be changed to. 

I just don't want my tribe and other tribes that the "Sioux" represent, portraited like that, I would much rather have my tribe portraited for who they are, not what sports team the represent!
i was actually talking about NG, but thanks for your opinion's as well
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Postby nativegolfer » Tue May 01, 2007 8:27 am

The Schwab wrote:
Indians Alumni wrote:
The Schwab wrote:i'm not saying i dont agree with what you say....but it seems to me that everytime someone asks you a question you beat arround the bush and dont really answer it......are you a politician by chance? haha


Schwaby, I didn't beat around the bush.  You can also find my answer in the other one about what the name would be changed to. 

I just don't want my tribe and other tribes that the "Sioux" represent, portraited like that, I would much rather have my tribe portraited for who they are, not what sports team the represent!
i was actually talking about NG, but thanks for your opinion's as well
Could you be more specific?
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Postby always a sports season » Wed May 09, 2007 12:04 pm

This question is taking a little different road and I hope it's okay and doesn't get nasty.  In a conversation about this topic with someone last night, I asked what is different about the Seminoles and the use of that mascot.  Why has that been deemed okay?  The reply was "The University paid big bucks to the tribe so that the name could be used." Is there any truth to that?  I really have no idea.  Unfortunately, money does talk and I think if we didn't have all the money donated by Englestad and his attitude that the name couldn't be changed, UND wouldn't be having this controversy - UND would have decided to change it's mascot name. 
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Postby Indians Alumni » Wed May 09, 2007 12:13 pm

Florida State University has a strong relation with the Seminole Tribe.  From what I know they did not pay the Tribe directly, but provided programs for the Seminole people and actually tried to understand the culture.

UND does not give one penny towards any Native American Programs, those are all federally or state funded, and have nothing to do with the college.  UND does not spend a dime.
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Postby always a sports season » Wed May 09, 2007 12:20 pm

Indians Alumni wrote:Florida State University has a strong relation with the Seminole Tribe.  From what I know they did not pay the Tribe directly, but provided programs for the Seminole people and actually tried to understand the culture.

UND does not give one penny towards any Native American Programs, those are all federally or state funded, and have nothing to do with the college.  UND does not spend a dime.
Thank you.  That does make sense to me. 
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