North Dakota Preps

this topic is the continued talk of the last one that got locked

if the last one got locked.....what makes u think a "continued" discussion will stay open?

i'm going to throw this out there right now...call someone a racist, claim they have a racist point of view, express racist thoughts, etc. and you are gone plain and simple. it's name calling and juvenile behavior and this board should be above that, especially on a fairly serious topic. maybe that is giving 'people' in general too much credit, i don't know.

i have had a pretty clear-standing rule on this for a couple of months now, so i don't feel like i'm coming out of left field on this and there is more than one person from the last discussion that is apparently catching me on a good day or they would have been booted. now that a few select people have ruined a portion of what was a pretty decent day, and i'm back to feeling normal,  i don't really feel like putting up with that kind of stuff.

feel free to continue the discussion if you feel it is warrented.

Plan and simple, people are offended and I think there is well more than enough, get rid of the mascot. 

it dosnt matter if people are offended und could change their names to the und smiley faces and people that always wear a frown would be offended or the und computer discs and people without computers would be offended it is tradition and no matter what the name is there will always be at least 1 person offended so let the tradition stand

Saucesauer wrote:it dosnt matter if people are offended und could change their names to the und smiley faces and people that always wear a frown would be offended or the und computer discs and people without computers would be offended it is tradition and no matter what the name is there will always be at least 1 person offended so let the tradition stand

well said. im with you on that one

[user=463]Saucesauer[/user] wrote:

it dosnt matter if people are offended und could change their names to the und smiley faces and people that always wear a frown would be offended or the und computer discs and people without computers would be offended it is tradition and no matter what the name is there will always be at least 1 person offended so let the tradition stand

Your comparing a peoples heritage and culture to a smiley face and computer discs?? Last time i checked those weren't REAL PEOPLE who have FEELINGS. Yes there will always be one person who is offended, but in this case there are many people who are offended by this.

Is there ANYONE in the native american culutre who takes pride in this? They wouldn't have named themselves the fighiting sioux if they didn't think it was a good image. Yeah, and all that stuff with the bison, I've heard it all. Would they name themselves the sioux if they were tryin to discgrace them?? If someone wanted to have their mascot after my heritage, I would consider it an honor.

[user=2527]uconn_8[/user] wrote:

Is there ANYONE in the native american culutre who takes pride in this? They wouldn't have named themselves the fighiting sioux if they didn't think it was a good image. Yeah, and all that stuff with the bison, I've heard it all. Would they name themselves the sioux if they were tryin to discgrace them?? If someone wanted to have their mascot after my heritage, I would consider it an honor.

Well lets have und's mascot be your heritage then and everybody will be happy :)

uconn_8 wrote:Is there ANYONE in the native american culutre who takes pride in this? They wouldn't have named themselves the fighiting sioux if they didn't think it was a good image. Yeah, and all that stuff with the bison, I've heard it all. Would they name themselves the sioux if they were tryin to discgrace them?? If someone wanted to have their mascot after my heritage, I would consider it an honor.

Let me try to explain why some people get offended. Let me assume you're German or Norwegian (this is North Dakota after all) and say Catholic. What if they were called UND Fighting Catholics...that ain't right, say Praying Catholics. Now no doubt you'll see opposing fans wearing stuff like a priest outfit with a doll tied around their waist and what not. How would that make you feel? Of course, there's no way a team would be called the Praying Catholics because of the outlash it would cause (silly huh?) We natives pray through song and dance. It may look like we're just dancing around like fools and saying gibberish, but we're praying and giving thanks to God. That's how we do it...now see, when peole put war paint on and head-dresses and dance around woop'ing around like they do...can you see how that will offend some of us?

Personally, I like the name...because well, my ancestors fought to protect their way of life until they couldn't fight no more (Buffalo, which was our #1 food source, source of clothing, source of housing...became almost extinct thanks to hunters) We, as in the Lakota, a long with the Navajo and Seminole gave the US Army the hardest time trying to force us on reservations. But even though I enjoy the name, it's the actions of some fans and opposing fans which I find offensive. But there's nothing the University can do about the fans really, except change the name.

ndfan wrote:[user=2527]uconn_8[/user] wrote:

Is there ANYONE in the native american culutre who takes pride in this? They wouldn't have named themselves the fighiting sioux if they didn't think it was a good image. Yeah, and all that stuff with the bison, I've heard it all. Would they name themselves the sioux if they were tryin to discgrace them?? If someone wanted to have their mascot after my heritage, I would consider it an honor.

Well lets have und's mascot be your heritage then and everybody will be happy :)

How many of you non natives have been to a rez?  And I'm not talkin just driving thru or went to the school for a BBgame or to the casino.  This is an open invitation to anyone who wants a tour of Spirit Lake.  I live about 2 miles south of the casino on hwy 57.  I thinks it's an absolute shame that most if not all of these die hard UND fans who want to keep the name have never set foot on a rez or even know a NA.  I think if you got a taste of what rez life is about you'd probably have a different perspective about the UND nickname issue.  You say you are honoring NA's by the nickname but how many of you would sit and break bread in a NA household?  I'm waiting.

Change the name.  Traditions get broke.  If memory is correct, Wasn't UND first called "The Flickertails"?  How come that tradition was broke?  I also believe that the color "pink" was part of the school colors.  How come that tradition got broke?

And guys this is not something new.  NA's have been asking for this since the early 60's.  It is just more hyped now because of the media.

 

 

Roughrider wrote:

Saucesauer wrote:it dosnt matter if people are offended und could change their names to the und smiley faces and people that always wear a frown would be offended or the und computer discs and people without computers would be offended it is tradition and no matter what the name is there will always be at least 1 person offended so let the tradition stand

well said. im with you on that one

Well said, You agree with someone who compared a race and culture to a computer geek and a smiley face! 

Do you even know anyone who is Native American? 

Diamond D wrote:Change the name.  Traditions get broke.  If memory is correct, Wasn't UND first called "The Flickertails"?  How come that tradition was broke?  I also believe that the color "pink" was part of the school colors.  How come that tradition got broke?

And guys this is not something new.  NA's have been asking for this since the early 60's.  It is just more hyped now because of the media.

 

 

I believe the color scheme is still Pink!  It is just not used very much anymore! The Volleyball team used it!

rez01 wrote:

uconn_8 wrote:Is there ANYONE in the native american culutre who takes pride in this? They wouldn't have named themselves the fighiting sioux if they didn't think it was a good image. Yeah, and all that stuff with the bison, I've heard it all. Would they name themselves the sioux if they were tryin to discgrace them?? If someone wanted to have their mascot after my heritage, I would consider it an honor.

Let me try to explain why some people get offended. Let me assume you're German or Norwegian (this is North Dakota after all) and say Catholic. What if they were called UND Fighting Catholics...that ain't right, say Praying Catholics. Now no doubt you'll see opposing fans wearing stuff like a priest outfit with a doll tied around their waist and what not. How would that make you feel? Of course, there's no way a team would be called the Praying Catholics because of the outlash it would cause (silly huh?) We natives pray through song and dance. It may look like we're just dancing around like fools and saying gibberish, but we're praying and giving thanks to God. That's how we do it...now see, when peole put war paint on and head-dresses and dance around woop'ing around like they do...can you see how that will offend some of us?

Personally, I like the name...because well, my ancestors fought to protect their way of life until they couldn't fight no more (Buffalo, which was our #1 food source, source of clothing, source of housing...became almost extinct thanks to hunters) We, as in the Lakota, a long with the Navajo and Seminole gave the US Army the hardest time trying to force us on reservations. But even though I enjoy the name, it's the actions of some fans and opposing fans which I find offensive. But there's nothing the University can do about the fans really, except change the name.

The praying Catholics is an excellent analogy!!  I think that is an analogy that people can understand.  Get that out to the public.  It is time that ignorance about native religion and culture is ended. 

My real concern on this issue is that UND has gone above and beyond other schools in terms of resources for Native Amerians and cultural activities.  If the name change occurs will those programs be slowly eroded away and disappear.

Wild Wolves wrote:My real concern on this issue is that UND has gone above and beyond other schools in terms of resources for Native Amerians and cultural activities.  If the name change occurs will those programs be slowly eroded away and disappear.

How has UND gone over and above other schools?  Every school in the midwest has a native american center and various native programs.  I work with NDSU in planning and implementing summer science camps and sunday science academies for all the rez's in ND.  They also send faculty to all of the camps and aceademies. I have also worked with SDSU and Montana State - Bozemen for simular programs.  UND doesn't do anything like that.  Setting up a scholarship fund after the nickname issue got hot doesn't count.  If those programs do dry up after the UND nickname is changed, then it just proves they didn't care for the native students in the first place. 

Perhaps I should clarify, UND gets more plublicity for thier programs. Since I have never heard of any of the programs NDSU offers.  I was thinking of on campus activities. And what do the smaller state schools offer?  

The nickname should not be changed...it should be considered an honor. Are the Dallas Cowboys supposed to change their name because the cowboy population is offended? And people that work in the steel industry are supposed to be offended by the Steelers? What about spanish people with the San Diego Padres? How bout the minnesota vikings? Should vikings be offended?

None of them of are ethnic groups.

project-pat wrote:The nickname should not be changed...it should be considered an honor. Are the Dallas Cowboys supposed to change their name because the cowboy population is offended? And people that work in the steel industry are supposed to be offended by the Steelers? What about spanish people with the San Diego Padres? How bout the minnesota vikings? Should vikings be offended?

[user=408]klg_11[/user] wrote:

[user=704]power-aid14[/user] wrote:

how is "fighting souix" offensive?

why isnt there an uproar about fighting irish???

Maybe because there wasn't an effort by the US government to exterminate them, put them on reservations, give them blankets infected with smallpox, sell them gallons of liquor dirt cheap and jack up the price of milk and bread, and force them to give up their culture and way of life.   

Pat, did you read the last forum?  It isn't about the logo itself, it is about the abuse of the logo from fans either supporting or not supporting UND.

How many of you saw the movie Fargo?  Were you amused by the fact that the show made fun of ND people and their accents.  I was a little miffed by it.  Thinking it was a poor portrayal of the people here and how they talk, work, etc...

If you felt like that after watching the show, then I think it gives you some kind of an idea of how NA's feel about the logo and its use.

 

Diamond D wrote:Pat, did you read the last forum?  It isn't about the logo itself, it is about the abuse of the logo from fans either supporting or not supporting UND.

How many of you saw the movie Fargo?  Were you amused by the fact that the show made fun of ND people and their accents.  I was a little miffed by it.  Thinking it was a poor portrayal of the people here and how they talk, work, etc...

If you felt like that after watching the show, then I think it gives you some kind of an idea of how NA's feel about the logo and its use.

 

I personally think it's an honor to have ND mentioned in anything, even if they do poke fun at it...it just makes me feel that ND isn't invisible haha. 

Diamond D wrote:Pat, did you read the last forum?  It isn't about the logo itself, it is about the abuse of the logo from fans either supporting or not supporting UND.

How many of you saw the movie Fargo?  Were you amused by the fact that the show made fun of ND people and their accents.  I was a little miffed by it.  Thinking it was a poor portrayal of the people here and how they talk, work, etc...

If you felt like that after watching the show, then I think it gives you some kind of an idea of how NA's feel about the logo and its use.

 

Yeah they made us look like a bunch of hicks but look, IT WAS A MOVIE, yeah it was based on a true story but still, its not that big of deal. the entire nation thinks that we still live in holes in the ground and dont even have running water yet anyway. Honestly who cares what anyone thinks about us. I am proud to live in North Dakota. I dont care what anyone else says and neither should you.

as for the nickname issue, its the same thing, im wondering what fans that support UND would abuse it, I go to UND and i havent seen one supporter abuse it in any way. as for the non supporters, i havent seen them either abuse the nickname, and if they do, its in the passion of sports, it doesnt mean that they are abusing the Sioux nation directly, just like the movie fargo, just because they make us have a wierd accent doesnt mean that they are bashing us directly, ITS A MOVIE. Your not going to like this overview but look, in the world of sports the more bashed on you are the more respect the other team has of you because you are good. I feel honored to be apart of the FIGHTING SIOUX fan nation. i have great pride with my school and teams, and so should the NA's. their name is being honored with greatness.

nativegolfer wrote:

ndfan wrote:[user=2527]uconn_8[/user] wrote:

Is there ANYONE in the native american culutre who takes pride in this? They wouldn't have named themselves the fighiting sioux if they didn't think it was a good image. Yeah, and all that stuff with the bison, I've heard it all. Would they name themselves the sioux if they were tryin to discgrace them?? If someone wanted to have their mascot after my heritage, I would consider it an honor.

Well lets have und's mascot be your heritage then and everybody will be happy :)

How many of you non natives have been to a rez?  And I'm not talkin just driving thru or went to the school for a BBgame or to the casino.  This is an open invitation to anyone who wants a tour of Spirit Lake.  I live about 2 miles south of the casino on hwy 57.  I thinks it's an absolute shame that most if not all of these die hard UND fans who want to keep the name have never set foot on a rez or even know a NA.  I think if you got a taste of what rez life is about you'd probably have a different perspective about the UND nickname issue.  You say you are honoring NA's by the nickname but how many of you would sit and break bread in a NA household?  I'm waiting.

STILL WAITING!