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Re: Vikings

Postby Flip » Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:42 pm

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Re: Vikings

Postby Bison-Vikes #1 » Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:28 am

Some personal observations after the first game:
1. I have backed Ponder all along and still believe he has the tools to be very successful in the NFL. It's really his second year and he has shown he can win games and has the talent. With that said, if he doesn't get to the point of "slowing the game down" in his mind and if he doesn't get rid of his deer in the headlights look, he will have to go. If he can't show consistency in the positive direction by week 8, bench him.
2. Why is it every QB for the teams we play seems to have time to sit back in the pocket and check down to every wide receiver and we don't? Is our offensive line that bad or is it our defense can't get a rush like the opponent?
3. I was not impressed with the play calling and the utilization of our weapons. Rudolph targeted maybe 3 to 4 times with 2 receptions. Missed his long catch so not sure if that was over the middle, but mostly they are throwing to him on deeper outs or sideline flies. Wouldn't it behoove them to send a big athletic guy down the middle on some hitches or ins or even skinny outs where he might be able to break a tackle and go down the field?
4. No screen plays to Peterson, really? How do you slow down a pass rush?
5. Patterson was in for all of what, 2 plays?

Apologize for the rant. It's only the first game and hate to be a "knucklehead" after 1 game, but man, they really didn't appear ready for that game.
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Re: Vikings

Postby The Schwab » Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:51 am

I think the majority of the problems with the Vikings has to do with play calling and Ponder.
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Re: Vikings

Postby winner-within » Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:16 pm

I agree with that and i will add...that there are some very very very good Coaches in the NFL....Frazier is not one of them....another one that will be watched close this season is, Tom Coughlin
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Re: Vikings

Postby Flip » Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:33 pm

Bison-Vikes, both lines got killed yesterday. Suh and Fairly dominated and outside of a couple batted balls you hardly ever heard from anyone on the dline.

I read that Patterson played 5 plays.

I really have to wonder how many screen passes AP has caught since he's been in the league. For whatever reason they rarely feature him in the passing game. I do think he scored on a screen pass yesterday though.
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Re: Vikings

Postby Indy5 » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:32 pm

The Schwab wrote:I think the majority of the problems with the Vikings has to do with play calling and Ponder.

I agree with this. I've said from day one I don't think Ponder will ever be good. He was a slightly above average QB in college.
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Re: Vikings

Postby BB11 » Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:18 pm

Indy5 wrote:
The Schwab wrote:I think the majority of the problems with the Vikings has to do with play calling and Ponder.

I agree with this. I've said from day one I don't think Ponder will ever be good. He was a slightly above average QB in college.


So was Tom Brady.

Not comparing the two whatsoever - just couldn't resist.. :)
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Re: Vikings

Postby Bison-Vikes #1 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:00 am

I still believe Ponder has the physical tools, but you guys may have been right all along concerning his play making ability. Maybe he doesn't have the mental tools. His personality is so laid back. To play the position, you need a little cockiness to show your confidence. It almost seems as if he has lost the team. Not sure they believe in him any more. We don't see what happens in the locker room and am wondering if the O-line has decided he isn't the player they want to block for. If so, might as well bench him now or just trade him because I don't think he has the personality or grit to get their respect back.
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Re: Vikings

Postby winner-within » Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:11 am

Last season was a tale of two seasons for Ponder. He had a great first month. He didn't "light up the league" but he was very competent and dependable. Then in game 5, he stunk up the field against Arizona even though they won, and it seemed like he couldn't recover from that game mentally. Hence the 4 game slide. But it was the vast improvement that occurred on the offensive line that actually rescued Ponder. They played so much better, gave him more time to throw and that helped his confidence. I watched each preseason game this year and the starting offensive line in each game was not at all impressive, just as they weren't impressive against Detroit. Even with future improved line play, Ponder still has to make a statement with his play to let the offense know he is the General on the field and not A.P. A QB with a General's mentality will always be the leader of the offense even if the RB is 'all world' of which A.P. is....so I agree Bison-Vikes, I thought of that (does this line want cassals??) on Sunday. It is up to the coaching Staff (and the captains)to get this right.
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Re: Vikings

Postby Hinsa » Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:46 pm

Just a small clarification - Peterson's nickname is not A.P., it's AD, as in All-Day.

As for Ponder, I'm with most of you - he just doesn't have the mental makeup to slow the game down and make good decisions. Case in point - when he was trying to escape left and was being slung down for a sack he still tried to hit a receiver 25 yards downfield and ended up throwing that balloon of an interception up in the air. 2nd case in point - an interception that was dropped on an out to the right sideline - he saw his receiver had front position on the corner but completely missed the other DB standing almost right in front of his receiver. The guy just doesn't see the field.
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Re: Vikings

Postby winner-within » Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:54 pm

I'm not justifying Ponder...I was @ Soilder field when he made his Debut, unfortunately his presence hasn't materialized, its been that season, last season and 1 game into this one and ziggy has to make some decisions (i believe) on coaching, staff & QB.

I hate the name "all Day" because for most of Sunday he was backing up all day!

when discussing the Vikes I use "AP" everybody knows I am not referring to Associated Press
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Re: Vikings

Postby Bison-Vikes #1 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:26 pm

The Vikes have never really developed a QB in the 40 years I have watched them. Think about it, Tarkenton, Kramer, Wilson, Gannon, McMahon, Moon, Johnson, Cunningham, George, Culpepper, Jackson, Frerotte, Favre, Webb, Ponder. There were of course some others sprinkled in there. Of all these names, Fran was the only one they drafted and gave them a number of good years. Heck, they screwed that up and traded him away, only to trade to get him back and lead them to 3 super bowls. The rest were either washed up or lasted only a few years at best. Gannon and Johnson left and went on to do big things. Granted, neither was a big time QB, but they won.

Look what Jim Harbaugh has done in SF. Was at the Packer/49er game last year. We were down watching him work with the QB's. He personally warmed up both Smith and Kaepernick. Catching all their passes and giving them positions to throw the ball. He literally brought Alex Smith out of his funk and look what he has in Kaepernick. IMHO, really don't think the Vikes have ever had the personnel to develop a young QB. When you think about it, the teams that have developed the young QB's, are the teams with multiple Super Bowls.
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Re: Vikings

Postby winner-within » Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:23 pm

Great points and you are spot on....not to mention the Twins let great pitchers go...lol....but no back on a serious note, I have been watching Pro-Sports for over 30 years and hands down its the Coaching personnel that makes the Clock Tick! and with that said, is there a new wave of QB's coming? one that runs more?...Nope regardless the color of skin (because Ponder is fast too) you will not last long running in the NFL, and if the new young guns try too (regardless of their color of skin) they will falter.

A standout QB in the NFL now days is Gold! we can all believe in Ponder or we can throw him under the bus,
but the Vikes have bought into the fact that AP/AD is going to take them to the promise land.
False.. :)
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Re: Vikings

Postby Indy5 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:28 pm

Another thing is a lot of Ponder's success last year was due to Percy Harvin. I remember hearing in their game against the Falcons last year he attempted I believe 16 passes with 9 of them being behind the line of scrimmage. He just can't go out and make plays down the field. The thing is with as good of a run game as they have, the pass should be nicely setup for him.
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Re: Vikings

Postby Bison-Vikes #1 » Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:53 am

Indy5 wrote:Another thing is a lot of Ponder's success last year was due to Percy Harvin. I remember hearing in their game against the Falcons last year he attempted I believe 16 passes with 9 of them being behind the line of scrimmage. He just can't go out and make plays down the field. The thing is with as good of a run game as they have, the pass should be nicely setup for him.


That is a very valid point. IMO, the Patterson kid can do much of the same but has to be in the game to do it. Was watching Brady the other day. Some of the windows he throws through are so small it is unbelievable he can make the throw. The timing and velocity has to be perfect. You cannot question yourself on those throws. You either make them or you check off and look else where. The other thing (as Hinsa mentioned earlier) is field vision. There's no question Ponder is still locking in on receivers. Good QBs have to have peripheral vision not only to see d-backs moving towards the receiver but also to see/feel on coming rushers all at the same time. A QB's mind has to process all of this at once. Brady "feels" the rush coming from around the end, senses the DE's momentum is going to carry him in a direction and then takes a step or two inside that "arc" and it buys another 2 seconds for the receiver to make his break and he makes the throw. He truly does make it look simple. I guess all of the good ones can do that.
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Re: Vikings

Postby Indy5 » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:19 pm

Bison-Vikes #1 wrote:That is a very valid point. IMO, the Patterson kid can do much of the same but has to be in the game to do it. Was watching Brady the other day. Some of the windows he throws through are so small it is unbelievable he can make the throw. The timing and velocity has to be perfect. You cannot question yourself on those throws. You either make them or you check off and look else where. The other thing (as Hinsa mentioned earlier) is field vision. There's no question Ponder is still locking in on receivers. Good QBs have to have peripheral vision not only to see d-backs moving towards the receiver but also to see/feel on coming rushers all at the same time. A QB's mind has to process all of this at once. Brady "feels" the rush coming from around the end, senses the DE's momentum is going to carry him in a direction and then takes a step or two inside that "arc" and it buys another 2 seconds for the receiver to make his break and he makes the throw. He truly does make it look simple. I guess all of the good ones can do that.

I'm not a Vikings fan, but I watch them a decent amount since they're always on TV here. I haven't really seen much of Patterson, but to me he looks more like an explosive outside receiver rather than a slot/versatile guy like Percy. Isn't he about 6'2?
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Re: Vikings

Postby Flip » Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:11 pm

yeah he's bigger, but he's a shifty fast guy that you want to touch the ball a lot, like Harvin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjxkQXlCAfE
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Re: Vikings

Postby Flip » Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:05 pm

like that!
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Re: Vikings

Postby Hinsa » Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:03 pm

Doggone defense cannot get itself off the field. Offense looks pathetic. Going 0-2 is not a killer, but going 0-2 with catastrophic futility like the Vikes is very worrisome.
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Re: Vikings

Postby Hinsa » Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:04 pm

Why kick a field goal with 3 minutes left and up by 3 at the 4 yard line? Another field goal does nothing for you - a touchdown by the Bears still puts you behind. If you get it into the end zone, game over. If you don't, the Bears have to go 60 yards just to get into field goal range for tying kick. As it stands now, the Bears can still win with a TD.
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Re: Vikings

Postby Hinsa » Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:13 pm

Another why - why did the Vikings not take their timeouts to try to save some time in the event that the Bears scored? Stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid
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Re: Vikings

Postby Flip » Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:49 pm

Hinsa wrote:Another why - why did the Vikings not take their timeouts to try to save some time in the event that the Bears scored? Stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid

huh, what?
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Re: Vikings

Postby Hinsa » Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:15 pm

The Bears were running the clock down on their last drive so there would be no time left for the Vikings to do anything after the Bears took the lead 31-30. The clock was not going to run out on the Bears, the Vikings needed to stop the Bears on downs. And there was no reason to believe the Vikings were going to keep the Bears out of the end zone; thus the Vikings needed to save some time for themselves to try to get into field goal range to try to win the game 33-31.
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Re: Vikings

Postby Flip » Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:47 pm

Hinsa wrote:The Bears were running the clock down on their last drive so there would be no time left for the Vikings to do anything after the Bears took the lead 31-30.

This was not on purpose. I'm sure the Bears would have much rather taken their time.

The clock was not going to run out on the Bears...

They were on the 39 yard line with 0:43 remaining with 1 timeout.

And there was no reason to believe the Vikings were going to keep the Bears out of the end zone

They did the entire 2nd half until the last drive.

There are quite a few things you can rip the Vikings for, but not using timeouts to make it easier for the Bears is not one of them.
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Re: Vikings

Postby winner-within » Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:19 am

yes, using timeouts does nothing...Frazier has to figure things out, hes worse than Denny Green with managing the clock, and thats bad.

when a Defense does everything possible in the second half to help the Offense win...than the Offense has to win, instead of crying about the turf etc etc....Vikes are terrible in the RED ZONE again this season already and they have AP....why not run Gerhart more, I'm lost for words with this flippin team
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