Football Playoffs

[Thundersnow]

Can someone explain how many teams will qualify for the playoffs and how the seeds/matchups will be determined? I got an idea from the NDHSAA website, but left having more questions than answers. I'm not a fan of the new divisions and how unbalanced they are.

[WalkingStick]

CLASS 9B (no different than last year)
R2#2 vs R1#3
R1#1 - BYE

R1#2 vs. R2#3
R2#1 - BYE

R4#2 vs. R3#3
R3#1 - BYE

R3#2 vs. R4#3
R4#1 - BYE

R6#2 vs. R5#3
R5#1 - BYE

R5#2 vs. R6#3
R6#1 - BYE

R8#2 vs. R7#3
R7#1 - BYE

R7#2 vs. R8#3
R8#1 - BYE
Coaches vote will rank the eight region champs and seed them #1-8

CLASS 11B
R1#1 vs. R2#4
R2#2 vs. R1#3
R2#1 vs. R1#4
R1#2 vs. R2#3

R3#1 vs. R4#4
R4#2 vs. R3#3
R4#1 vs. R3#4
R3#2 vs. R4#3
Coaches vote will rank the four region champs and seed them #1-4

CLASS 11A
QRF will seed them 1-8

CLASS 11AA
QRF will seed them 1-8

QRF comes from the northdakota-scores.net website (it's the only thing that website is doing)

[Flip]

When it says coaches will vote. What coaches are they talking about?

[WalkingStick]

When it says coaches will vote. What coaches are they talking about?

I assume Region Championship Team Coaches (probably the same voting system used for State VB, BBB, GBB, Baseball)

[Thundersnow]

Thank you for the response. I'm old school, so I like region records determining who gets in. But with our ridiculously unbalanced regions, it doesn't really make sense anymore. If we use QRF for seeding, why isn't QRF used for determining who qualifies?

If I understand correctly, in 11AA there's a good chance that a 6-win team from the East could be left out of the playoffs and a 2-win team from the West would qualify? Our new divisions make no sense. I don't understand why St. Mary's got forced up a division while no one else got moved down. The only teams who benefit from our new divisions are Fargo North, Fargo South, the Grand Forks schools along with a handful of Big B teams like Beulah, Central Cass and Kindred. It's much harder and more confusing to be a fan than it used to be.

[NDPREP]

Thank you for the response. I'm old school, so I like region records determining who gets in. But with our ridiculously unbalanced regions, it doesn't really make sense anymore. If we use QRF for seeding, why isn't QRF used for determining who qualifies?

If I understand correctly, in 11AA there's a good chance that a 6-win team from the East could be left out of the playoffs and a 2-win team from the West would qualify? Our new divisions make no sense. I don't understand why St. Mary's got forced up a division while no one else got moved down. The only teams who benefit from our new divisions are Fargo North, Fargo South, the Grand Forks schools along with a handful of Big B teams like Beulah, Central Cass and Kindred. It's much harder and more confusing to be a fan than it used to be.

Not completely true in AA, we will see when QRF comes out BUT in theory a loss to Davies is worth more than a win over Williston but we will see. Since the formula is secret its anyone's guess until they start releasing it in the next couple weeks.

Honestly so far 11B has been a success as an outsider it seems to me? The really good B teams would still be there if they moved Beulah, Central Cass, Kindred back up...Trinity, Thompson, Oakes, Velva, Shiloh, Bottineau? just going off the coaches poll

[Thundersnow]

Last year, a 6-3 Fargo Davies was left out of the 11AA Playoffs while a 2-7 Minot and a 3-6 Bismarck got in. The way I understood WalkingStick's explanation is that there is the possibility of this happening again this year.

NDPREP, are you saying that region/conference records are NOT used to determine playoff teams, but rather QRF? If a loss to Davies is worth more than a win against Williston, why would any 11AA team schedule a game against Williston?

[WalkingStick]

Last year, a 6-3 Fargo Davies was left out of the 11AA Playoffs while a 2-7 Minot and a 3-6 Bismarck got in. The way I understood WalkingStick's explanation is that there is the possibility of this happening again this year.

NDPREP, are you saying that region/conference records are NOT used to determine playoff teams, but rather QRF? If a loss to Davies is worth more than a win against Williston, why would any 11AA team schedule a game against Williston?

Yep still possible.

It's all about win total...right now it's a non-discussion as Williston & Davies each have 1 win. But because of the Region concept they have to schedule Williston in the AA West.
I honestly think they should do away with the region concept and do straight QRF...let teams schedule who they want for 11AA & 11A...then take the TOP 8 teams in each class...regardless of geographical location.

[NDPREP]

There is no region concept this year:

2022 NDHSAA Football Regulations

New Regulations:

Division 11AA and 11A

-QRF will determine the eight playoff qualifiers and seed them #1-8

The entire AA and A playoffs will be filled and seeded by QRF, so a loss to a #1 could be better than a bottom barrel team. There are no regions this year in A or AA.

[NDPREP]

Also to my knowledge football schools don't determine their own schedule otherwise none of the AA schools would be playing A schools at all.

[WalkingStick]

There is no region concept this year:

2022 NDHSAA Football Regulations

New Regulations:

Division 11AA and 11A

-QRF will determine the eight playoff qualifiers and seed them #1-8

The entire AA and A playoffs will be filled and seeded by QRF, so a loss to a #1 could be better than a bottom barrel team. There are no regions this year in A or AA.

There is a region concept...got to go all the way to the bottom of the regulations to the bracket

"PLAYOFF FORMAT
11AA
-Top three East Region teams and top five West Region teams determined by region record will qualify for the playoffs (inequity due to the fact there are four teams in East Region, six teams in West Region)

-QRF will determine seeds #1-8
1 vs 8
4 vs 5
2 vs 7
3 vs 6

11A
-Top five East Region teams and top three West Region teams determined by region record will qualify for the playoffs (inequity due to the fact there are seven teams in East Region, five teams in West Region)

-QRF will determine seeds #1-8
1 vs 8
4 vs 5
2 vs 7
3 vs 6"

AA plays A because of the EDC & WDA conferences...they just schedule who they want within the conference (not everyone is forced to play Watford City or Turtle Mountain like in VB or Basketball)

[NDPREP]

I am going to guess there is a copy and paste issue with their rules, in the middle of the rules section it also lists:
Playoff Qualifying:

* If a tie occurs in any region, said region may use its own tiebreaker. Otherwise, the “optional tiebreaker” will be used.

11AA
-QRF will determine the eight playoff qualifiers and seed them #1-8
11A
-QRF will determine the eight playoff qualifiers and seed them #1-8

All I have heard is the Region concept does not exist in AA or A this year

[Thundersnow]

If "the Region concept does not exist in AA or A this year" why is it included everywhere that I see standings? Shouldn't we get rid of regions and just have statewide standings like we did a few years back when the old AA had 10 teams?

[WalkingStick]

Original post of mine has been updated...just talked to a NDHSAA member and he confirmed the regulations were to say JUST 'Seed #1 - #8' so in essence, 11AA East could get all 4 teams in this year

[NDPREP]

If "the Region concept does not exist in AA or A this year" why is it included everywhere that I see standings? Shouldn't we get rid of regions and just have statewide standings like we did a few years back when the old AA had 10 teams?

It’s included because people can’t let it go, they still want to “win the EDC” when that isn’t a thing. State championship is all that matters. Plus with the rules Changing every year people can’t keep up

[WalkingStick]

If "the Region concept does not exist in AA or A this year" why is it included everywhere that I see standings? Shouldn't we get rid of regions and just have statewide standings like we did a few years back when the old AA had 10 teams?

It’s included because people can’t let it go, they still want to “win the EDC” when that isn’t a thing. State championship is all that matters. Plus with the rules Changing every year people can’t keep up

Well winning the conference is still a plaque in their trophy cases so some do care about that...

[Thundersnow]

I don't get it. Nothing makes sense anymore.

[WalkingStick]

I don't get it. Nothing makes sense anymore.

They honestly should care about conference for Football...if it's just the QRF then schedule who you want. Beating a good 11A team is better than playing a poor 11AA (11A has a smaller multiplier than the 11AA).

[NDPREP]

Sort of agree but whoever actually makes the schedule doesn’t get it, because of the must play a A team the WDA doesn’t all play each other so there can’t be a WDA crown in all reality

[Thundersnow]

Thanks for the conversation and info, guys. I would just like consistency. Either have conference records mean something or get rid of them if all we're using is QRF. While we're at it, can anyone describe the reasoning and procedure that forced Bismarck St. Mary's up to 11AA while no team went from 11AA down to 11A?

[Flip]

Thanks for the conversation and info, guys. I would just like consistency. Either have conference records mean something or get rid of them if all we're using is QRF. While we're at it, can anyone describe the reasoning and procedure that forced Bismarck St. Mary's up to 11AA while no team went from 11AA down to 11A?

St. Mary's was forced to move up because of their success in the lower division.

[WalkingStick]

Thanks for the conversation and info, guys. I would just like consistency. Either have conference records mean something or get rid of them if all we're using is QRF. While we're at it, can anyone describe the reasoning and procedure that forced Bismarck St. Mary's up to 11AA while no team went from 11AA down to 11A?

St. Mary's was forced to move up because of their success in the lower division.

I wish they’d allow Williston to move down for their lack of success in highest class…if you are moving up for success moving down for lack of it should be allowed too

[Thundersnow]

What "success" threshold did they cross that forced them up? And who did the forcing?

[NDPREP]

I wish when people came on here to **complain** and moan they would at least be abreast of the rules and regulations to some extent, literally on the ndhsaa home page of football regulations:

Success Factor - point accumulation begins with the 2018 season.
Teams shall earn the following point values for the final level of the playoffs they achieve as follows:
Eliminated in quarterfinal – One (1) point
Eliminated in semifinals – Two (2) points
State Runner-Up – Three (3) points
State Championship – Four (4) points
-Division 11A and 9B teams achieving twelve (12) points or greater due to playoff success during a four-year period shall move up to the next largest division for the next two seasons.
-Teams that have achieved eight (8) points or greater due to playoff success during four consecutive years as an opt down team shall move up to the next largest division for the next two seasons.
-After participation in a larger division for two years, a team achieving a two-year total playoff success point value of two points or below shall be eligible to move down.
-After participation in a larger division for two years, a team achieving a playoff success point value of three or more points shall remain in the same division for the next two seasons.

----
The dividing line between 11AA and 11A will be determined by finding the median of Class A Football Enrollments. If there is an odd number of Class A teams, the median is the football enrollment of the center school; the median team and all larger teams will be placed in the 11AA Division. If there is an even number of Class A teams, the median is the average of the football enrollments of the two center schools divided by two; all teams larger than the median number will be placed in the 11AA Division.

Williston cannot opt down because they are the 4th largest school in the state by adjusted enrollment, you can only opt down IF

Teams may request to opt down to the next lower division if they meet both items a. and b., beginning with the 2017 season below:
-The team’s Football Enrollment must be within 25% of the median between divisions.
-The team may not have qualified for the playoffs more than once at the higher division in the previous four seasons.
-Qualifying for the playoffs in the current season may affect a team’s ability to opt-down in the next season.

[NDPREP]

Thanks for the conversation and info, guys. I would just like consistency. Either have conference records mean something or get rid of them if all we're using is QRF. While we're at it, can anyone describe the reasoning and procedure that forced Bismarck St. Mary's up to 11AA while no team went from 11AA down to 11A?

also schools can throw around EDC champs just as the media does but it doesnt mean anything. I am undefeated in the SEC 0-0, havent won one but also haven't lost!