2021 Football Plan

[Mandan]

The latest NDHSAA minutes have details on the next football plan. (Starting on page 4)

https://ndhsaa.com/files/Board_Minutes/ ... inutes.pdf

They are going part of the way I thought they should - they set enrollment of 160 boys to separate the "A" Classes (AAA and AA) and the "B" Classes (A and 9-man). Personally, I think they should set an enrollment level between A and 9-man too, but other details may make up for that.

1)Once the A and B teams are determined, they will divided by median enrollment, with those above the median in the higher class and those below in the lower class. If there are an odd number of teams, the odd team at the median will go into the higher class.
2)Max number of schools in 9-man will be 40.
3)They are adding a mechanism to request a move down into 9-man for teams within 25% of the median that aren't regularly qualifying for the playoffs.
4)They also appear to be doing a form of relegation, where teams in AA or 9-man going far into the playoffs regularly over a 4 year span will be moved up to the next class.
5)Similarly, teams in AAA and A not making the playoffs regularly over 4 years can move down.

So this is much more complex than the current plan, you'll have to read the minutes to see all the details.
Will be interesting to see how this plays out once we get to the 4 year span, and see how teams move up or down based on the playoff relegation.

[Mandan]

Found the adjusted enrollment numbers too, which show show the starting point for the 4 classes before any move ups are requested:

https://ndhsaa.com/files/2019_20_Sports ... lments.pdf

So we would be looking at an 11 team AAA and 11 team AA.

A and 9-man would be 39 team divisions.

[NDPREP]

I like the plan with the opt down and bumping teams up if they are very good, the plan should have always been about more than just enrollment and should have involved some sort of success calculator.

I do think:
AA - North, South, Shanley opt up, St Mary's will be forced up in 2 years.
A: Beulah, HCV opt up for sure not sure about CCass or Kindred (might be forced to make AA at least 11 teams).

[Mandan]

Maybe I'm reading more into it than is there, but I first interpreted this to mean that there is no movement between AA and A. AAA and AA have a hard division from A and 9-man, and there is no movement between AA and A unless their enrollment re-classifies them in the next plan. There is the one sentence that says you can opt up into any division, but the other move up/down statements seem pretty clear that the movement is between AAA and AA, and between A and 9-man. Even if Beulah and A teams can opt up, I don't see them forcing a team up into A that would be against the whole spirit of this hard division line between "A" and "B" teams. I think they'd prevent a AA team from moving up before forcing an A team up in order to keep the numbers right.

[NDPREP]

Sure but I don't see them not allowing an opt up, if enough teams opt'ed up into AAA I think they'd be forced to bring some of the more recent AA teams up into that division to make it the minimum 11 they state. I know from coaches perspective this is designed to give competitive balance and enough will opt into AA but maybe I am misreading some coaches comments on it already.

Forcing a team to move up from the competition factor is only from 9 to A or AA to AAA, but a team can opt up to "any" division and opt down 1 division. Just by previous experience watching this I can guess that if enough new AA schools opt up into AAA they will have to pull the top of the A division to complete AA, regardless of what the cutoff line says. Now I think the Beulah's and HCV will opt up but they may need 1-2 more to fill out that division. That all remains to be seen on what the new AA schools do, I think a lot of them want to be in AAA I mean south was just in the AAA playoffs I can't see them wanting to be down in AA but maybe I am misreading that.

[caserace0710]

I read that teams cannot opt-down to A. The success factor is very similar to what Indiana uses.

Some questions I have are

• If a team has a success factor greater than 12 and has to opt-up, does the lowest team go down as like a team opting-up a division as long as the criteria are met?
• If a team opts-up and the lowest enrollment school in the next division doesn't meet the criteria to opt-down because they made the playoffs twice in the last four seasons, do they still move down?

[Flip]

I once had a FB coach tell me HCV hated playing AA. This was before this past season. So I'm not sure HCV is opting up.

[heimer]

I read that teams cannot opt-down to A. The success factor is very similar to what Indiana uses.

Some questions I have are

• If a team has a success factor greater than 12 and has to opt-up, does the lowest team go down as like a team opting-up a division as long as the criteria are met?
• If a team opts-up and the lowest enrollment school in the next division doesn't meet the criteria to opt-down because they made the playoffs twice in the last four seasons, do they still move down?

Talked to one of the main authors of the plan.

The answers are, essentially, no, and no.

This plan absolutely no longer depends on a number of teams in a class to be a certain number.

There are currently three teams that are "opt-down" optional at the AAA level, being Central, Dickinson, and Mandan. If they all opted down, the top class would be eight, and the bottom class would be 14, assuming no additional opt-ups.

As I understand it, there is no movement between AA and A, up or down, even if a team wants to opt up.

[Mandan]

Thanks for the clarification. That's what I had thought. If you are going to make a hard number like they did (160) it has to mean something. You can't define that number as a dividing line and then break that line you just made just because a team or two would want to move. It really makes it more like basketball and other sports - you have that hard 325 line that is rare for a team to cross, and they want to define a number for football that is similar.

[heimer]

Hey all, correction:

Teams can move up as far as they want. You cannot cross the line down from AA to A, but you can go up if you want.

The numbers of teams stuff I had right. There is no corresponding team moving down to accommodate a move up, and there can be an odd number of teams in a class. But teams can opt up the whole way.

[The Schwab]

This plan is definitely progress in the right direction. I like it

[ND Sports Fan]

A step in the right direction for sure.

As I understand it, this is actually the 2021-22 plan, which means the current AAA, AA, A, 9-man structure from last fall is still in place for Fall 2020. That would make sense as each football plan is a 2-year plan currently and last fall was the 1st year of the current plan. This is generally voted on and approved in October of each year at the state conference.

Also, regarding movement. I believe you can opt up as high as you would like, if approved, however, one of the overall goals of this proposed structure is to eliminate the every 2-year uncertainty. Further, to have all Class A schools in AAA and AA, and all Class B schools in A and 9-man. This keeps schools together with their natural opponents in all other sports and reduces statewide travel.

This is LONG overdue. I am hopeful this can get approval across the state.

[maddog1971]

Class 3A

Minot, West Fargo Sheyenne, Williston, West Fargo High, Bismarck Century, Bismarck Legacy, Bismarck High, Fargo Davies, Dickinson, GF Central, Mandan

Class 2A

Fargo North, GF Red River, Fargo South, Jamestown, Watford City, Devils Lake, Fargo Shanley, Valley City, Wahpeton, Bismarck St. Mary’s, Turtle Mountain.

Class A

Central Cass, Kindred, Des Lacs-Burlington, New Town, Beulah, Stanley, Lisbon, Hillsboro-Central Valley, Belfield-South Heart, Standing Rock, Northern Cass, Grafton, Fargo Oak Grove, Hazen, Killdeer, Park River-Fordville-Lankin-Valley-Edinburg, Ellendale-Edgeley-Kulm, Bismarck Shiloh Christian, Carrington-Pingree-Buchanan, Washburn-Wilton-Wing, Rugby, Garrison-Max, Thompson, Ray-Powers Lake, Oakes, Bottineau, New Salem-Almont-Glen Ullin, Dickinson Trinity, Nedrose, Langdon-Edmore-Munich, Milnor-North Sargent-Sargent Central, Harvey-Wells County, Minot Bishop Ryan, South Prairie, Enderlin-Maple Valley, Surrey, Hatton-Northwood, Bowman County, Mayville-Portland-CG

9-man

Velva, Richardton-Taylor-Hebron, Tioga, Fairmount-Campbell-Tintah, Underwood-Turtle Lake-Mercer-McClusky, Wyndmere-Lidgerwood, Westhope-Newburg-Glenburn, Nelson County, Kenmare-Bowbells-Burke Central, Larimore, Cavalier, Hettinger-Scranton, Linton-HMB, Four Winds, Lewis & Clark, North Prairie, Mott-Regent, Wishek-Ashley, Griggs Co. Central-Midkota, Divide County, LaMoure-Litchville-Marion, Dunseith, New Rockford-Sheyenne, Mohall-Lansford-Sherwood, Towner-Granville-Upham, Grant County, Beach, Parshall-White Shield, Hankinson, North Star, Kidder County, North Border, Napoleon-Gackle-Streeter, Trenton, Hope-Page-Finley-Sharon, Richland, Benson County, St. John, Strasburg-Zeeland.

[Fletcher]

Now I think the Beulah's and HCV will opt up but they may need 1-2 more to fill out that division. That all remains to be seen on what the new AA schools do, I think a lot of them want to be in AAA I mean south was just in the AAA playoffs I can't see them wanting to be down in AA but maybe I am misreading that.

I like this plan, but maybe I’m missing something because I don’t see Beulah or HCV, who have male enrollment numbers of about 105 and 95, choosing to opt up to AA in order to play some teams that may have 4 to 5 times their numbers. I don’t think any AD, Coach or superintendent would choose that. I can see a team that traditionally plays AAA like Fargo North, South or Shanley that is close to the AAA numbers moving up. But what sense would it make for a traditional Class B school to move up to AA? They’d lose their traditional rivalries against other Class B schools in Football, Not to mention the travel they’ll save under the new plan.

[Run4Fun2009]

I don’t see any of the high-end Class A schools moving up to AA...just my opinion

[Flip]

I'm not old enough to remember, but is this like the old 3 class system? Except they just took took the biggest class, 11 man - Class A, and divided into 2 classes.

[B-oldtimer]

I was looking at this plan and class A level of 11 man now has the biggest difference in size of schools competing in the state. The moving of HCV, Central Cass, Beulah, Kindred and couple of other schools back to A seems step in wrong direction especially these schools are not decreasing in size but growing in size. The problem we have here is we have small group of schools that don't fit in either grouping and if move them up they are overmatched and if move them down they have real advantage in competing with other schools because of their size.
second thing I see nothing here for six man football and number schools that been have playing independent schedule because of participation numbers. I wonder how many more schools are going to be in that situation because football risks to injury. these are some other points I think that should be thought of because the times are changing fast.

[defensewinsgames]

I was looking at this plan and class A level of 11 man now has the biggest difference in size of schools competing in the state. The moving of HCV, Central Cass, Beulah, Kindred and couple of other schools back to A seems step in wrong direction especially these schools are not decreasing in size but growing in size. The problem we have here is we have small group of schools that don't fit in either grouping and if move them up they are overmatched and if move them down they have real advantage in competing with other schools because of their size.
second thing I see nothing here for six man football and number schools that been have playing independent schedule because of participation numbers. I wonder how many more schools are going to be in that situation because football risks to injury. these are some other points I think that should be thought of because the times are changing fast.

Honestly this was the first thing I noticed as well. Moving HCV, CC, Beulah, Kindred down to single A recreates one of the few problems this year's plan addressed. Those teams will walk through most if not all of the teams in their regions. I would doubt that they all choose to move up to AA especially if some of those traditional AAA teams come down. I don't really see the advantage to this plan...but maybe it's just that...I'm not seeing it and there are things I'm overlooking.

[The Schwab]

I guess in my original response I looked at the ways teams will get moved up/down a class and that is why I liked it. I don't know if I can get behind a plan that doesn't have Fargo North, Fargo South and GF Red River in the top class to start.

[heimer]

I was looking at this plan and class A level of 11 man now has the biggest difference in size of schools competing in the state. The moving of HCV, Central Cass, Beulah, Kindred and couple of other schools back to A seems step in wrong direction especially these schools are not decreasing in size but growing in size. The problem we have here is we have small group of schools that don't fit in either grouping and if move them up they are overmatched and if move them down they have real advantage in competing with other schools because of their size.
second thing I see nothing here for six man football and number schools that been have playing independent schedule because of participation numbers. I wonder how many more schools are going to be in that situation because football risks to injury. these are some other points I think that should be thought of because the times are changing fast.

I'm going to catch heck for this, but I don't care:

B-shots in 2009: The number is 325, the number is the number, if you're below it, you're B, if you're above it, get better. If you're a big B, like Central Cass, Kindred, HCV, and Beulah, you're still B, even if you're big, growing, and good.

2020: There are some teams that are good enough to be in AA that are below the number, so the system is flawed.

Que Bisonguy06 and the talk about the privates.

[heimer]

Class 3A

Minot, West Fargo Sheyenne, Williston, West Fargo High, Bismarck Century, Bismarck Legacy, Bismarck High, Fargo Davies, Dickinson, GF Central, Mandan

Class 2A

Fargo North, GF Red River, Fargo South, Jamestown, Watford City, Devils Lake, Fargo Shanley, Valley City, Wahpeton, Bismarck St. Mary’s, Turtle Mountain.

I think if we follow the logic on this, the divisions would look like (by the time opting is done, both down and up):

AAA--Minot, Sheyenne, Williston, West Fargo, Century, Legacy, Bismarck, Davies, Mandan, South, North, Shanley

AA--Dickinson, Central, Red River, Jamestown, Watford, Devils Lake, Valley City, Wahpeton, St. Marys, Turtle Mountain.

Just guessing that South and North will choose to stay with their inner-metro colleagues, and Shanley already opted up last year. Assuming Mandan stays up as well, knowing their AD is a competitive person that wants to set a high standard for their department. Numbers will convince Central to opt down and Red River to stay down. The wild card is Dickinson. At this AA, they are out by themselves, but at AAA, tough sledding.

[Mandan]

A step in the right direction for sure.

As I understand it, this is actually the 2021-22 plan, which means the current AAA, AA, A, 9-man structure from last fall is still in place for Fall 2020. That would make sense as each football plan is a 2-year plan currently and last fall was the 1st year of the current plan. This is generally voted on and approved in October of each year at the state conference.

Also, regarding movement. I believe you can opt up as high as you would like, if approved, however, one of the overall goals of this proposed structure is to eliminate the every 2-year uncertainty. Further, to have all Class A schools in AAA and AA, and all Class B schools in A and 9-man. This keeps schools together with their natural opponents in all other sports and reduces statewide travel.

This is LONG overdue. I am hopeful this can get approval across the state.

You are right on the year, this takes effect in 2021 so I modified the topic title of my first post.

[B-oldtimer]

I find it interesting in Herald article this plan was address problems of schools like Red River and Grand Forks central competing with larger and more dominant programs in class 3 A. They are complaining of low numbers and not making playoffs etc in the division they are in. Now we come to smaller class b schools in sports where they have requested a change and Activities Association has buried requests by not being able to come up with a plan. I guess who you are and size of the town asking matters but if your small you just have to learn to compete and get better or quit and go with another small town until there are none left. I think they are going to have to do something with those large class b schools in A or same thing is going to happen at that level but of course smaller schools in A are not as important as larger b closer to Fargo's and Bismarck's can't have whole bunch of towns not close to large cities in the state just to hard to cover and nobody cares about what's happening out there because everything of importance is around these large towns and doesn't fit media business model.

[Sportsrube]

I find it interesting in Herald article this plan was address problems of schools like Red River and Grand Forks central competing with larger and more dominant programs in class 3 A. They are complaining of low numbers and not making playoffs etc in the division they are in. Now we come to smaller class b schools in sports where they have requested a change and Activities Association has buried requests by not being able to come up with a plan. I guess who you are and size of the town asking matters but if your small you just have to learn to compete and get better or quit and go with another small town until there are none left. I think they are going to have to do something with those large class b schools in A or same thing is going to happen at that level but of course smaller schools in A are not as important as larger b closer to Fargo's and Bismarck's can't have whole bunch of towns not close to large cities in the state just to hard to cover and nobody cares about what's happening out there because everything of importance is around these large towns and doesn't fit media business model.

Good post.

[ndlionsfan]

Anyone hear any rumblings about opt ups and opt downs? Only opt up I really see happening is Velva. Any new 6man teams? Curious to see what Max and Glen Ullin end up doing.