2019-2020 Football Plan

North Dakota High School Football
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Re: 2019-2020 Football Plan

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:12 pm

Run4Fun2009 wrote:
Flip wrote:
Run4Fun2009 wrote:New Town also just dropped to an Independent schedule...causing two ripples: Hazen moved up to AA & Tioga moved up to Class A

If you have a 9 man enrollment you shouldn't be forced to play 11 man. If you're under XXX enrollment you should be 9 man no matter what. If 8 more A schools drop football are they going to force 8 more 9 man schools to play 11 man?


I do not know...Just was informing this thread of the most recent change that came in last night.

What's even the 'definition' of a 9-man enrollment?


9-Man is at 36 teams now...so I can't see them doing that...The numbers work perfectly now.

Class AAA - 16 Teams (2 Regions)
Class AA - 12 Teams (2 Regions)
Class A - 32 Teams (4 Regions)
9-Man - 36 Teams (6 Regions)
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Re: 2019-2020 Football Plan

Postby Flip » Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:36 pm

Run4Fun2009 wrote:
I do not know...Just was informing this thread of the most recent change that came in last night.

What's even the 'definition' of a 9-man enrollment?

I realize you're just passing on the news.

9 man enrollment should be set by the NDHSAA, maybe it's 150 enrollment 9-12. The way it's set up now there has to be 60 11 man teams in the state. What if ND can't fill 60 11 man spots? The current solution: we'll just make an undermanned small school play 11 man.
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Re: 2019-2020 Football Plan

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:56 pm

Flip wrote:
Run4Fun2009 wrote:
I do not know...Just was informing this thread of the most recent change that came in last night.

What's even the 'definition' of a 9-man enrollment?

I realize you're just passing on the news.

9 man enrollment should be set by the NDHSAA, maybe it's 150 enrollment 9-12. The way it's set up now there has to be 60 11 man teams in the state. What if ND can't fill 60 11 man spots? The current solution: we'll just make an undermanned small school play 11 man.


So 150 is your number...sounds good then Oak Grove (3rd highest Class A enrollment right now) would be 9-man by your standards; All the private schools would be 9-man if they didn't want to opt up...I have a feeling lots of people wouldn't like that (again)...and actually Carrington is also under 150 in enrollment so they'd be 9-man as well.

In the end, someone is never going to be happy with what is decided...but a decision has to be made.
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Re: 2019-2020 Football Plan

Postby Flip » Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:43 pm

Run4Fun2009 wrote:So 150 is your number...

I just through a number out there. I haven't looked at it closely, but there should be a number where you can't be forced to play 11 man.

In the end, someone is never going to be happy with what is decided...but a decision has to be made.

This is true, and I think it's a bad one.
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Re: 2019-2020 Football Plan

Postby ndlionsfan » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:14 am

Flip wrote:
Run4Fun2009 wrote:
I do not know...Just was informing this thread of the most recent change that came in last night.

What's even the 'definition' of a 9-man enrollment?

I realize you're just passing on the news.

9 man enrollment should be set by the NDHSAA, maybe it's 150 enrollment 9-12. The way it's set up now there has to be 60 11 man teams in the state. What if ND can't fill 60 11 man spots? The current solution: we'll just make an undermanned small school play 11 man.


While I don't know if a set enrollment limit is the answer, I agree something needs to be looked at in how the football plan is set up. There are 4 teams that just can't make it where they are placed based on enrollment. Maybe other factors need to come into play? Like state before, maybe fewer 11man teams. I don't know what the answer is
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Re: 2019-2020 Football Plan

Postby Flying Wallenda » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:24 am

ndlionsfan wrote:
Flip wrote:
Run4Fun2009 wrote:
I do not know...Just was informing this thread of the most recent change that came in last night.

What's even the 'definition' of a 9-man enrollment?

I realize you're just passing on the news.

9 man enrollment should be set by the NDHSAA, maybe it's 150 enrollment 9-12. The way it's set up now there has to be 60 11 man teams in the state. What if ND can't fill 60 11 man spots? The current solution: we'll just make an undermanned small school play 11 man.


While I don't know if a set enrollment limit is the answer, I agree something needs to be looked at in how the football plan is set up. There are 4 teams that just can't make it where they are placed based on enrollment. Maybe other factors need to come into play? Like state before, maybe fewer 11man teams. I don't know what the answer is

3 classes instead of 4?
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Re: 2019-2020 Football Plan

Postby B-oldtimer » Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:04 am

NDHSAA is going to have hard time to put together a football plan in the future because enrollment numbers doesn't guarantee that a school can compete at certain level because of enrollment numbers. This is being shown already with likes of several schools now because they are opting out program because numbers are not there to field teams for the future. The problem is how do keep the playing field kind of level so there is some equality of who's competing against each other. Right now the number of 11 man teams is the problem especially when you look at make of 11 man football the class A and AA schools competing the numbers and difference in size of schools. I think you could come up with one class but it would mean more than half of the class A schools would no longer be 11 man schools but would be part of I believe part of larger 9 man schools. Second I know the politics of this a lot of these smaller 11 man schools coaches and administrations would fight going to 9 man class they could not accept playing 9 man game. I think time is going to solve a lot of these problems because football is changing and I believe the game will need to change if its going to survive. The violent contact is going to be reduced I believe if the game is to survive but how all this is done to be determined.
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Re: 2019-2020 Football Plan

Postby Class B » Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:07 am

B-oldtimer wrote:NDHSAA is going to have hard time to put together a football plan in the future because enrollment numbers doesn't guarantee that a school can compete at certain level because of enrollment numbers. This is being shown already with likes of several schools now because they are opting out program because numbers are not there to field teams for the future. The problem is how do keep the playing field kind of level so there is some equality of who's competing against each other. Right now the number of 11 man teams is the problem especially when you look at make of 11 man football the class A and AA schools competing the numbers and difference in size of schools. I think you could come up with one class but it would mean more than half of the class A schools would no longer be 11 man schools but would be part of I believe part of larger 9 man schools. Second I know the politics of this a lot of these smaller 11 man schools coaches and administrations would fight going to 9 man class they could not accept playing 9 man game. I think time is going to solve a lot of these problems because football is changing and I believe the game will need to change if its going to survive. The violent contact is going to be reduced I believe if the game is to survive but how all this is done to be determined.


Make Class A a completely "Opt In" division. No enrollment specs, just open to anyone. :lol: :lol:
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Re: 2019-2020 Football Plan

Postby ND Sports Fan » Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:37 pm

B-oldtimer wrote:NDHSAA is going to have hard time to put together a football plan in the future because enrollment numbers doesn't guarantee that a school can compete at certain level because of enrollment numbers. This is being shown already with likes of several schools now because they are opting out program because numbers are not there to field teams for the future. The problem is how do keep the playing field kind of level so there is some equality of who's competing against each other. Right now the number of 11 man teams is the problem especially when you look at make of 11 man football the class A and AA schools competing the numbers and difference in size of schools. I think you could come up with one class but it would mean more than half of the class A schools would no longer be 11 man schools but would be part of I believe part of larger 9 man schools. Second I know the politics of this a lot of these smaller 11 man schools coaches and administrations would fight going to 9 man class they could not accept playing 9 man game. I think time is going to solve a lot of these problems because football is changing and I believe the game will need to change if its going to survive. The violent contact is going to be reduced I believe if the game is to survive but how all this is done to be determined.


North Dakota High School Activities Association should really take a look at completely changing what they do with football. I do not understand why the football committee or the High School Activities Association believes they are smarter when it comes to football than those people who created the current Class A and Class B system for K-12 education. Why is it that in basketball we don't care if a little Epping has to compete against the largest Class B schools in the state? But in football, if a small class a school has to compete against a large Class A School we just can't bring ourselves to allow that to happen.

the K-12 education system already has parameters that creates a class system. I believe it is time that all Class A schools stay together for football and all Class B school will stay together for football. If you want to divide the class A schools into class A 11-man in class A nine-man or divide all the class A schools into class A and class double A based on enrollment that would be fine. Then you can do the same with the class B schools, Class B 11-man and Class B 9 man.

some will point to the current competitive balance in the double a system and believe that it was the right decision. But I don't know any school administrator that could honestly make a case that sending Wahpeton all the way to Watford City for a football game is what's best for kids or the program. Meanwhile, schools that are 20 miles apart and compete against each other in every other aspect of their school existence, do not play each other on the football field. the current double-a format is fundamentally flawed, but because you might have a close game between two communities that are 8 hours apart that's the justification that it's the right system.

And you cannot poll athletic directors and coaches and ask them where they belong. Because at the end of the day, personal agendas and a desire to win at whatever level they're at is what drives the decision. If your enrollment places you was a Class A School you belong playing other class A schools in your extracurricular activities. If your enrollment size determines your a Class B school, then you should play other class B schools in extracurriculars. When High School enrollment exceed the requirement to move up to class A, nobody asks the administrators if that's where they belong and then choose to make a different decision. the enrollment criteria that divides Class A and Class B schools is predetermined and you have to be above that number for three consecutive years I believe. You don't go above that number and then get asked do you really think you belong there and if not maybe we'll move you.

and I'm so tired of the argument that, somebody's always going to be unhappy because they will be the smallest School in whatever level they're in. That is only because every two years the rules change. Set the criteria for football much like the criteria is for other sports, and then leave it alone. If you don't like the current criteria that separates Class A and Class B then work on changing that. But to have a change every two years based on somebody's vested interest during that 2 year cycle just makes absolutely no sense.
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Re: 2019-2020 Football Plan

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:14 pm

FINAL DRAFT ~ 09-19-18
CLASS AAA - Top 4 in Each Region Makes Playoffs
EAST REGION (8)
West Fargo
WF Sheyenne
Fargo Davies
GF Central
Fargo South
Fargo North
GF Red River
Shanley

WEST REGION (8)
Minot
Legacy
Century
Bismarck
Williston
Mandan
Dickinson
Jamestown

CLASS AA - Playoffs TBD
EAST REGION (6)
Devils Lake
Valley City
Wahpeton
Central Cass
Hillsboro-Central Valley
Kindred

WEST REGION (6)
Watford City
Bismarck St. Mary's
Turtle Mountain
Beulah
Stanley
Hazen

CLASS A - Top 4 in Each Region Makes Playoffs
REGION 1 (8)
Lisbon
Oak Grove
Ellendale/Edgeley-Kulm
Northern Cass
Thompson
Milnor-North Sargent
Hatton-Northwood
Oakes

REGION 2 (8)
Grafton
Rugby
Park River-FL
Carrington
Langdon/Edmore/Munich
Bottineau
Harvey-Wells County
Westhope-Newburg-Glenburn

REGION 3 (8)
Garrison-Max
Des Lacs-Burlington
Nedrose
Bishop Ryan/Our Redeemer's
Velva
Kenmare-Bowbells-BC
Tioga
South Prairie

REGION 4 (8)
Heart River
Southern McLean
Killdeer
New Salem-Glen Ullin
Shiloh Christian
Richardton-Taylor-Hebron
Bowman County
Dickinson Trinity

9-MAN - Top 4 in Each Region Makes Playoffs
REGION 1 (9)
Tri-State (FCT/Rosholt)
May-Port-CG
Enderlin/Maple Valley
Griggs County Central
Wyndmere-Lidgerwood
LaMoure-LM
Hankinson
Richland
Finley-Sharon-Hope-Page

REGION 2 (9)
Nelson County
Dunseith
Cavalier
North Border
North Prairie
North Star
New Rockford-Sheyenne
Benson County
St. John

REGION 3 (9)
Central McLean
Ray/Powers Lake
Surrey
Lewis & Clark
Mohall-Lansford-Sherwood
Divide County
TGU
Trenton
Parshall/White Shield

REGION 4 (9)
Mott-Regent/New England
Linton-HMB
Hettinger-Scranton
Grant County-Flasher
Kidder County
Beach
South Border
Napoleon/Gackle-Streeter
Strasburg/Zeeland
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Re: 2019-2020 Football Plan

Postby Flip » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:56 am

I'm surprised no chatter on this.

Ashley to Beach the farthest "region" game?
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Re: 2019-2020 Football Plan

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:04 am

Flip wrote:I'm surprised no chatter on this.

Ashley to Beach the farthest "region" game?


Since the state has made Watford go to Wahp (and vice versa) the last two seasons I don’t think as many are as shocked at this
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Re: 2019-2020 Football Plan

Postby The Schwab » Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:47 am

Flip wrote:I'm surprised no chatter on this.

Ashley to Beach the farthest "region" game?


The state must not realize there isn't a bridge across the river between Bismarck and Mobridge. That leads to some very long travel for Region 4 9 man
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Re: 2019-2020 Football Plan

Postby Class B » Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:55 am

Stanley has struggled with numbers as well as on the field in the A division these last couple of years. They can't be too excited to make the move back to AA.

Lot's of scuttle about Jamestown's dissatisfaction about being placed back in AAA. To me they really don't have a good argument in this case. I think they are where they belong.
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Re: 2019-2020 Football Plan

Postby Flip » Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:07 am

Class B wrote:Stanley has struggled with numbers as well as on the field in the A division these last couple of years. They can't be too excited to make the move back to AA.

Lot's of scuttle about Jamestown's dissatisfaction about being placed back in AAA. To me they really don't have a good argument in this case. I think they are where they belong.

I'm open to being wrong here, but it felt like AA started off for the big "B" schools. The last couple years it felt like it was more of the small "A" schools.
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Re: 2019-2020 Football Plan

Postby Sniper » Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:43 am

The Schwab wrote:
Flip wrote:I'm surprised no chatter on this.

Ashley to Beach the farthest "region" game?


The state must not realize there isn't a bridge across the river between Bismarck and Mobridge. That leads to some very long travel for Region 4 9 man


This was my first thought when I saw the new regions.
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Re: 2019-2020 Football Plan

Postby caserace0710 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:38 pm

Sniper wrote:
The Schwab wrote:
Flip wrote:I'm surprised no chatter on this.

Ashley to Beach the farthest "region" game?


The state must not realize there isn't a bridge across the river between Bismarck and Mobridge. That leads to some very long travel for Region 4 9 man


This was my first thought when I saw the new regions.


Back in 2011-12, 9-Man Region 4 consisted of:
Beach
Bowman County
Center-Stanton
Central McLean
Divide County
Hettinger/Scranton
Mott-Regent
Parshall/White Shield
Shiloh Christian
Trenton/Trinity Christian

So the 2019-20 incarnation of Region 4 looks to have similar travel extremes as in 2011-12.
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Re: 2019-2020 Football Plan

Postby The Schwab » Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:00 pm

caserace0710 wrote:
Sniper wrote:
The Schwab wrote:
Flip wrote:I'm surprised no chatter on this.

Ashley to Beach the farthest "region" game?


The state must not realize there isn't a bridge across the river between Bismarck and Mobridge. That leads to some very long travel for Region 4 9 man


This was my first thought when I saw the new regions.


Back in 2011-12, 9-Man Region 4 consisted of:
Beach
Bowman County
Center-Stanton
Central McLean
Divide County
Hettinger/Scranton
Mott-Regent
Parshall/White Shield
Shiloh Christian
Trenton/Trinity Christian

So the 2019-20 incarnation of Region 4 looks to have similar travel extremes as in 2011-12.


The travel that year was bad as well, but looking at Beach's average travel (I used them because they were mentioned earlier). In 2011-12 the average distance between them and the other teams was 144 miles. Next year their average distance will be 194.
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Re: 2019-2020 Football Plan

Postby Flip » Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:49 pm

caserace0710 wrote:Back in 2011-12, 9-Man Region 4 consisted of:
Beach
Bowman County
Center-Stanton
Central McLean
Divide County
Hettinger/Scranton
Mott-Regent
Parshall/White Shield
Shiloh Christian
Trenton/Trinity Christian

So the 2019-20 incarnation of Region 4 looks to have similar travel extremes as in 2011-12.

IIRC, schools in the SW part of the state were driving through Bismarck because the roads were so poor too. Hopefully the roads have improved since then.
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Re: 2019-2020 Football Plan

Postby The Schwab » Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:51 pm

Flip wrote:
caserace0710 wrote:Back in 2011-12, 9-Man Region 4 consisted of:
Beach
Bowman County
Center-Stanton
Central McLean
Divide County
Hettinger/Scranton
Mott-Regent
Parshall/White Shield
Shiloh Christian
Trenton/Trinity Christian

So the 2019-20 incarnation of Region 4 looks to have similar travel extremes as in 2011-12.

IIRC, schools in the SW part of the state were driving through Bismarck because the roads were so poor too. Hopefully the roads have improved since then.


You're right, that was when oil production was booming and 22 north of Dickinson wasn't very fun to travel on and neither was 85
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Re: 2019-2020 Football Plan

Postby madseason » Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:17 pm

I like It. Park river gets to play Grafton again. 15 miles :) Highway 17 rivalry renewed
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Re: 2019-2020 Football Plan

Postby Sportsrube » Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:17 pm

I think a majority of FB fans can find flaws with this plan. Sending South Border, Strasburg-Zeeland, Napoleon-GS, Linton-HMB to Beach is absolutely ridiculous. Sending Watford City to Wahpeton is ridiculous, etc.... It may be time for a whole lot of new board members and leadership at the NDHSAA. Part of me wants to agree with ND Sportsfan and just go Class A and Class B for FB too (maybe split Class B into 11 and 9 man). I still don't understand why they feel the need to make changes every two years.
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Re: 2019-2020 Football Plan

Postby Flip » Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:34 pm

What if you didn't have regions and you just played whoever you want and seeded the top 16 for playoffs off QRF? or similarly you play whoever you want and top 4 QRF from each region make playoffs?
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Re: 2019-2020 Football Plan

Postby Class B » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:46 am

Look at how opposite A Region 3 is from 9-man Region 4. Assuming you can alternate Tioga and Kenmare on the schedule, you only play 1 regional road game beyond 40 miles from campus. The coaches/AD's and fuel budgets have got to love that!
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Re: 2019-2020 Football Plan

Postby Sleepy » Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:05 am

Sniper wrote:
The Schwab wrote:
Flip wrote:I'm surprised no chatter on this.

Ashley to Beach the farthest "region" game?


The state must not realize there isn't a bridge across the river between Bismarck and Mobridge. That leads to some very long travel for Region 4 9 man


This was my first thought when I saw the new regions.


You could see that the SW region was going to be a problem because Shiloh, New Salem/Almont and Richardton TH all went to A. So they were going to have to expand that region.
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