The Poll

All teams in ND
Forum rules
Please do not post just to complain about players, coaches, teams, officials, fans, or anyone else. Lets all try to demonstrate the spirit of good sportsmanship. Posts maybe be edited or deleted that do not comply.

The Poll

Postby heimer » Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:19 am

The weekly hockey poll is crap.

This year, the coaches decided to issue a poll weekly. Not sure why, as I don't know if it gets released to the media. It's released on the ndhighschoolhockey.com website. That's about the only place I see it.

There is obvious collusion on the part of the WDA coaches to keep the GF schools #1 and #2, hoping any pressure they receive due to the poll will be to the west's advantage.

Red River and Central have each lost to unranked teams in the past two weeks. Bismarck and Century continue to go on winning games out west.

In any other poll at all, football, basketball, whatever, if you're ranked #1 or #2, and you lose to an unranked team, you drop, simple as that. This went on after the Stadstad as well.

I wrote an email to Bob Gillen, who's a nice guy, and told him I'd bring this to the regular media and out this crap if the poll didn't change this week. Interesting that, for the first time I've noticed, the website includes a lengthy explanation of why the coaches got it right. They're obviously invested in protecting something out there.

If the west coaches are so hellbent on winning a state title, how about they do it without importing players from the juniors and colluding to rig a regular season poll. This bias reeks.
God is bigger than football.
heimer
NDPreps All-State
 
Posts: 774
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:11 pm
Location: Rupert's Land

Re: The Poll

Postby hockeynut » Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:47 am

Like the USCHO poll in college hockey this coaches poll also means nothing. Who cares?

I do agree about importing players. Not fair. Reminds me when my daughter got recruited by Warroad and they offered me a job at Marvin Windows.
hockeynut
NDPreps All-Conference
 
Posts: 237
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:32 am

Re: The Poll

Postby hazpay » Thu Feb 05, 2015 12:32 am

Importing players? Examples?

I only know of one who used a "changing district" loophole last year to come back from an NA3 team. Are there others in the west this year? I can't think of any...

As for a coaches poll...who cares? Means nothing to the players, I'm sure. Maybe someone's grandma feels good her grandson is on a ranked team. The way the system is set up, 4 will come out of the west and 4 will come out of the east. This is not based on polls, but actual tournaments.
hazpay
NDPreps Reserve
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:33 am

Re: The Poll

Postby heimer » Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:56 am

A) We don't need multiple examples to recognize a smelly champion. Last year was proof enough what teams will do to win titles.

North Dakota needs a policy: Play one game in the juniors, live there. We're not a girlfriend you can leave for a hotter girlfriend, then come back to. You move on, we move on, end of story.

B) The poll matters because it's supposed to be legitimate. If the WDA coaches want to block vote the GF schools to keep pressure off of their teams, and then put their names on it, the poll is illegitimate, and the character of those coaches should be called into question.

No need for a lesson on how the state tournament is filled. I've done this before.
God is bigger than football.
heimer
NDPreps All-State
 
Posts: 774
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:11 pm
Location: Rupert's Land

Re: The Poll

Postby waldo8403 » Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:47 am

I guess I don't see the rankings as an issue because it doesn't mean anything. Plus a hockey poll in general is much different than a football poll, a loss doen't impact the ranking as much. Just look at UND 2 weeks ago, they had 5 losses and were ranked #1. If you watch the GF teams and watch the Bismarck teams play, you can see that the GF teams are better, no matter what their record says, and that's just what a poll should be, WHO YOU THINK IS THE BEST. If you are giving too much discredit for a loos then you basically just have the standings, not a ranking.

The problem with Bismarck importing last year lies mostly with the NDHSAA. The kid from Mandan had no choice but to move to Bismarck under the current rules. If he would have went back to Mandan, he would have been inelligeble for 180 days. The rules should be different for hockey than other sports because there isn't the opportunity to go play juniors in other sports. If a kid wants to try juniors and finds out it's not right for him, he should be able to come back home and play. The way the current rules are, the only way he could play was if his family moved to another school district.

I HAVE NO HORSE IN THIS RACE, AND IN FACT THE BISMARCK SITUATION LAST YEAR HURT MY KID.
waldo8403
NDPreps Rookie
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:11 am

Re: The Poll

Postby heimer » Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:35 pm

The rules should be different.

They should read that, if you leave to go play in the juniors, you are done with NDHSAA hockey forever. Period.

If the sport is going to be taken seriously in North Dakota, we can't be the ugly girlfriend you get to come back to when you dump us for the hotter girlfriend in the USHL, or the NAHL, or anywhere. You're here or you're not, pure and simple.

By the way, we must be getting someone's attention. Bismarck is #2 this week.
God is bigger than football.
heimer
NDPreps All-State
 
Posts: 774
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:11 pm
Location: Rupert's Land

Re: The Poll

Postby hazpay » Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:59 am

Thank you for taking care of this...

I'm sure BHS beating South/Shanley by 5 and Red River losing this past week had nothing to do with the movement in the poll.
hazpay
NDPreps Reserve
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:33 am

Re: The Poll

Postby heimer » Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:14 pm

Yeah, had it not been for rattling a few cages, I'm not sure. There were other opportunities to move up and down for all the teams that weren't taken care of.

Illegitimate poll done by illegitimate people. Gotta love the west JVs playing for points so the varsities can go play someone else. Six point games, always a must.

And then rent-a-players.

Not a good picture.
God is bigger than football.
heimer
NDPreps All-State
 
Posts: 774
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:11 pm
Location: Rupert's Land

Re: The Poll

Postby hazpay » Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:30 am

CHS beats BHS 3-2. Now what? Who should move in the poll?

Since it doesn't matter...I couldn't care less. :lol:
hazpay
NDPreps Reserve
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:33 am

Re: The Poll

Postby heimer » Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:46 am

Based on how the west does business, it's clear no one out there does.
God is bigger than football.
heimer
NDPreps All-State
 
Posts: 774
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:11 pm
Location: Rupert's Land

Re: The Poll

Postby waldo8403 » Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:56 pm

Heimer,
It seems like you tend to look at things through East colored glasses!

I have no personal interest in this since my son has graduated and I'm not from Bismarck, but I have a couple of issues with the extra games thing. They still count as a varsity game towards the NDHSAA limit of games so it really doesn't matter. With some of those games it's not truely the JV, but the Varsity minus the first line.

The extra games thing is heavily abused more by the East than the West.

East had 27 "extra" games between 8 teams, with Grafton having 6 and South having 5 as the worst ones. This is an average per EDC team of 3.375 "extra" games per team.

West had 15 "extra" games between 9 teams, with Bottineas, Dicky and Minot the worst with 3 each. This is an average per WDA team of 1.6 "extra" games per team.
waldo8403
NDPreps Rookie
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:11 am

Re: The Poll

Postby waldo8403 » Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:59 pm

Looking at it further, every team in the EDC had "extra" games while 3 teams in the west did not have any, 2 of which are the Bismarck teams.
waldo8403
NDPreps Rookie
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:11 am

Re: The Poll

Postby hockeynut » Wed Feb 11, 2015 4:20 pm

waldo8403 wrote:Looking at it further, every team in the EDC had "extra" games while 3 teams in the west did not have any, 2 of which are the Bismarck teams.

Well that should put this topic to rest.
hockeynut
NDPreps All-Conference
 
Posts: 237
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:32 am

Re: The Poll

Postby heimer » Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:46 am

Yep, good math.

Wrong.

Grand Forks Red River and Grand Forks Central each played to the 21-game limit this season. No more.

Check the schedules. And BTW, they each only got two games in the Stadstad. So, that game on the 17th was their third tournament game.

Counted them both. 21. Called Matt Fetsch (you know, the NDHSAA Exec. Secretary. Maybe you guys out west don't know who he is, seeing as you have the most screwed up rules for your conference in history, manipulate polls, etc), confirmed the limit is 21.

No extra games here.

Oh, by the way, he also confirmed that, when JVs play a regional varsity game for points, it DOES NOT count toward the varsity limit, only the JV limit.

The west has been scamming high school hockey for years.
God is bigger than football.
heimer
NDPreps All-State
 
Posts: 774
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:11 pm
Location: Rupert's Land

Re: The Poll

Postby waldo8403 » Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:18 pm

I stand corrected.
The extra games I was referring to though was the out of state games.
waldo8403
NDPreps Rookie
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:11 am

Re: The Poll

Postby heimer » Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:31 pm

Oh, now the light shines on your crap.

You look at out-of-state games as extra? Why? GF teams want to play EGF, Roseau, Warroad, etc. What, they're supposed to sacrifice these games to take care of you?

They play 21 games. Out-of-state opponents are not "extra games". Maybe those Bismarck wrestlers should be barred from wrestling the Rotary, since there are so many out of state teams there. You shouldn't get those matches, since they're "extra".

Pathetic
God is bigger than football.
heimer
NDPreps All-State
 
Posts: 774
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:11 pm
Location: Rupert's Land

Re: The Poll

Postby go maji » Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:08 pm

heimer wrote:Oh, now the light shines on your crap.

You look at out-of-state games as extra? Why? GF teams want to play EGF, Roseau, Warroad, etc. What, they're supposed to sacrifice these games to take care of you?

They play 21 games. Out-of-state opponents are not "extra games". Maybe those Bismarck wrestlers should be barred from wrestling the Rotary, since there are so many out of state teams there. You shouldn't get those matches, since they're "extra".

Pathetic


Minot has been in the Roeau touney the past couple of years.
go maji
NDPreps All-State
 
Posts: 509
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:01 pm
Location: Minot, North Dakota

Re: The Poll

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:53 pm

go maji wrote:
heimer wrote:Oh, now the light shines on your crap.

You look at out-of-state games as extra? Why? GF teams want to play EGF, Roseau, Warroad, etc. What, they're supposed to sacrifice these games to take care of you?

They play 21 games. Out-of-state opponents are not "extra games". Maybe those Bismarck wrestlers should be barred from wrestling the Rotary, since there are so many out of state teams there. You shouldn't get those matches, since they're "extra".

Pathetic


Minot has been in the Roeau touney the past couple of years.


Minot & Bottineau/Rugby played MN teams this year!
Email ND HS Scores to: ndhsscores at yahoo
Follow ND HS Scores (NDScores) on Twitter
Find Scores/Schedules/Standings: http://www.northdakota-scores.net
THANKS!
User avatar
Run4Fun2009
NDPreps The King
 
Posts: 13513
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:06 pm

Re: The Poll

Postby go maji » Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:47 am

I have a hard time figuring out where Heimer is from. In his first post, he begins to state that Bismarck and Century should be at the top, then he begins to hate on the west schools.

I'm totally confused.
go maji
NDPreps All-State
 
Posts: 509
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:01 pm
Location: Minot, North Dakota

Re: The Poll

Postby scoobyx2 » Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:14 am

go maji wrote:I have a hard time figuring out where Heimer is from. In his first post, he begins to state that Bismarck and Century should be at the top, then he begins to hate on the west schools.

I'm totally confused.

I know this will open up a "Obviously, you don't know anything about anything..." to me, but I am confused too. Should Bismarck and Century be ranked higher than the Grand Forks teams? Also, I assume that the GF hockey teams are similar to Bismarck wrestlers. but not clear on who we should think is pathetic.
scoobyx2
NDPreps Hall of Fame
 
Posts: 1208
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:19 pm

Re: The Poll

Postby heimer » Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:28 pm

Let's try to follow along here.

The west was clearly block voting to keep the GF schools ranked high, to keep the pressure on. It's a classic trick, and one that is easy to recognize.

Yes, when the GF schools are losing to unranked teams, they need to move down, pure and simple. The fact that they didn't smells of a corrupt poll.

This is an indictment of the west. They, together, will go to any extreme to screw the east because they hate the east that much. The game-winning goal in last year's title game was from a rent-a-player. The extra games, the changes in points which make absolutely no sense, the poll.

I put the poll under fire, and make no mistake about it, the coaches out west grudgingly moved Bismarck to #2 this week. I take credit for little, but I will take credit for this. When Red River was losing to South, and unranked South team, the week before, no movement. They lose to top-ranked Central, and that should produce movement? No, they moved because I started calling the poll into question, with Bob Gillen and others.

Sure, the poll means nothing, until its used as a tool to influence a season. That's what is going on here. It's another decision out of the west that reeks of corruption.
God is bigger than football.
heimer
NDPreps All-State
 
Posts: 774
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:11 pm
Location: Rupert's Land

Re: The Poll

Postby Dangles » Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:48 pm

I don't really see the rankings meaning much as far as pressure goes. Everyone in the state knows who the better teams are. I don't think any teams look at being ranked and feel extra pressure to win? Is there any coaches or kids out there saying or thinking before the games "we are ranked #1, and that is a lot of pressure"?In fact my guess is any kid or coach looking at that poll would love to see their team in the number 1 spot.
Dangles
NDPreps Rookie
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2014 3:31 pm

Re: The Poll

Postby bentheredunthat » Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:46 am

Let's try to follow along here.

First off, the poll means nothing, Heimer. The teams have to play to go to state and then beat the teams there to win state. Just cuz you think the poll puts pressure on a team doesn't make it so. I think the poll means nothing to the teams.

What rule was broken by a team last year? How much was paid for renting a player? Weren't these the same rules that were in place when east teams won state? Just cuz a west team wins the state hockey tournament last year doesn't mean anything is wrong with they system.

I'm glad to see that you take credit for manipulating the last poll.
bentheredunthat
NDPreps Rookie
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2014 9:44 am


Return to Hockey

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests